Got new appliances after 18 years

[mark_wpduet]

My goodness... I didn't even think about it being a "proper" surge protector or possibly even counterfeit... Probably 2008 (yes, it's been that long) I had one of those (I guess cheap) flat surge protectors that multiple things can be plugged into...with lights on it that are STILL ON to this day (I check)...and I just plugged my FL washer into that.. again, this was 2008 and haven't touched it... Now the fridge or dishwasher isn't plugged into one (I wish they were) but I just haven't messed with it and just figured the next time I had to get a new appliance I will just get the surge protector then...

the person on the phone must have just been reading a script...not having a clue you weren't talking about an extension cord.

I wonder what "PROPER" surge protectors are good/reliable or whatever? I didn't know you had to make sure of the proper amperage or whatnot... In my little mind if it's a 110 outlet then it's fine. Shows how much I know.

To be totally honest - I have NO clue if that's responsible for my duet continuing to work for such an unusually long time (speed queen territory) All I know is the board failed 2 years after owning it....and when the new one was put in, I plugged it into that surge protector and it's' been golden ever since... But at the same time, my Maytag dishwasher has NOT been plugged into a surge protector and we're at 11 years with it with no issues. So who the hell knows?

 

[vacerator]

Hi Mark! Yes, a good surge protector is reliable. Of course how long they last depends on how many times they have to trip into protection. Still not a 100% fail safe against lightning. Whole house panel types are available. Some are a once only protection though. Easy to change out.
We got a $130.00 Panamax M8 AV Pro. 1,850 joule, 8 15 amp high current outlets. The first 4 are power conditioning. Also a 12 volt trigger, auto. voltage monitoring, 53 DB noise filter, protect or disconnect technology, 3.0 ghz. cable/sat. protection, Tel./Lan network protection. 4K uhd/hdr ready.
Bought from Crutchfield.com

 

[appledude1]

My goodness... I didn't even think about it being a "proper" surge protector or possibly even counterfeit... Probably 2008 (yes, it's been that long) I had one of those (I guess cheap) flat surge protectors that multiple things can be plugged into...with lights on it that are STILL ON to this day (I check)...and I just plugged my FL washer into that.. again, this was 2008 and haven't touched it... Now the fridge or dishwasher isn't plugged into one (I wish they were) but I just haven't messed with it and just figured the next time I had to get a new appliance I will just get the surge protector then...

the person on the phone must have just been reading a script...not having a clue you weren't talking about an extension cord.

I wonder what "PROPER" surge protectors are good/reliable or whatever? I didn't know you had to make sure of the proper amperage or whatnot... In my little mind if it's a 110 outlet then it's fine. Shows how much I know.

To be totally honest - I have NO clue if that's responsible for my duet continuing to work for such an unusually long time (speed queen territory) All I know is the board failed 2 years after owning it....and when the new one was put in, I plugged it into that surge protector and it's' been golden ever since... But at the same time, my Maytag dishwasher has NOT been plugged into a surge protector and we're at 11 years with it with no issues. So who the hell knows?

If you pull the surge protector out of the wall, before you do so, are there indicator lights that should be lit that no longer are? Typically, there are 2 lights on a surge protector, and if one goes out, it is no longer working and needs replaced. The appliances will still work, they just are no longer surge protected. Actually have never had this happen, but they do wear out. Also, on the back of the surge protector it will tell you how many amps and watts it can handle - FL washer is not that heavy of an electrical draw - if you look at the info plate on the appliance, like fridge, washer, etc - it will tell you model, serial numbers - plus how many amps and watts it draws. FL washer, fairly low electrical draw. Fridge, large electrical draw - gas dryer, low electrical draw (heating is gas) - electric clothes dryer, large electrical draw. Microwave, large electrical draw. Countertop water heater (electric) large electrical draw. Counterfeit products are a problem in all categories, watch some youtube videos on this. I had a iphone case I bought, and then brought my iphone in to T-mobile. They told me "you know this is a counterfeit case, right?" - they showed me it was a GOOD counterfeit - but the print was not quite perfect on the back - and it damaged my phone by the way it fit - thats why even on things like extension cords - be paranoid - buy from a reputable place - stick to known brands - look for UL listing - and try plugging the end of the cord into the plug on the same cord - does it feel like the plug inserts right, or is it way too loose or way too tight? On light switches and electrical outlets, I will actually read reviews on which are good and which are bad - if you notice in a hardware store, many of these feel like crap - they aren't nearly as hefty as ones were many years ago. I would rather pay once for a much better product, than to buy a very lightweight switch that will not last that long.

 

[vacerator]

Yes Appledude, and Mark, the indicators should say either protected, or reset if tripped. Some have two, three, or four leds's. if they protect ac/dc/and or Lan/cat/Sat cable connections. If none are lit, it is probably shot. Some power strips are only just that even though they have a circuit breaker reset button.
The standard recommendation is at least 1,000 joule. The higher that number, the better.

 

[agiflow]

Sorry for this long read, but I sometimes must get things off my chest....
Indeed, I've watched for decades the slow, deliberate decline of consumer products.
From cars, to home products...the list is endless.
I've worked for over 40 years in the electronics service industry as a well-taught certified professional technician.
So believe me, I've got the experience, and like to share my findings with others.
The last repair shop that I worked at for 25 years, I saw and took notice of these so-called "changes" and touted improvements, citing the brainwashing term called "new and improved" or other terms to make consumers believe that they should "upgrade" their "aging" products.

Most people these days don't think about buying something new. something advertised as "superior or great".
Particularly something to replace a household appliance that broke down.
To these people, getting something fixed is a hassle, just go out and buy a new one, right? - AKA that throw-away mentality that you may have heard about.
At that shop I worked at, over the years, I saw Samsung products, mainly tv sets, ALWAYS coming through the door.
Second popular was the Sony's...
The one brand that we rarely, hardly ever saw come in for service? - Panasonic stuff.
So guess what! - What do you thing this lowly technician typing this has in his home? - Panasonic!... as well as Technics for my stereo system.
I don't like spending money every couple of years to replace something.

And of course there's those "outsourced" products with familier American names such as Westinghouse, Emerson, Zenith, RCA.... another long list, but you get the idea.
Those American names once made in America were quality, far above these new hunks of junk that came though the shop's door.
But people who bought and were satisfied with the original American products bought the junk because of "brand recognition", and that was key to some foreign factory's success and greed.

So to conclude, I'll stick with my 1984 Maytag pair, my 1985 GE refridgerator, and my 1971 Hobart-Kitchenaid dishwasher, and repair them if ever needed.
Along with my other vintage household American quality products.
No, I'm not an old stubborn codger, I just don't follow the current trend of being an easily led puppet to advertizing

Thanks.

Well as far as appliances are concerned I did want to upgrade to some new ones like a speed Queen washer but I find for the price and the lack of flexibility I'll pass. My 2013 AWN432 had more flexibility.

My washers are a 1985 Whirlpool supreme SC belt drive, a 1974 Kenmore 70 series washer and a 1985 KitchenAid superba washer.

My latest score was a 1998 Kenmore 80 series that I'm going to replace the inner tub on. Otherwise the machine looks and sounds very good.

My Whirlpool made Amana gas range and Whirlpool fridge purchased in 2022 with no problems so far and a "GE" portable dishwasher from the summer of 2023 no problems yet.

 

[mark_wpduet]

Yep - both lights still on. Red/Green

 

[jkm]

Get a Zerosurge made in the USA.

All the surge protectors we usually have access too from the big box and online stores that promote Chinese made products, are based on a sacrificial element so they eventually burn out and also don't provide the same level of protection as they age. At least that's what I have read.

So a few years back on my big appliances, computers, home entertainment area, I switched to Zerosurge. They are made in the USA and do not use a sacrificial element so they supposedly will last forever. I have been using them for 6 years now and haven't lost anything to surges.

They are more expensive because they are longer lasting and made in the USA but I generally use their basic two outlet unit in front of bar plugs or a UPS (Uninterrupted power supply).

 

[mark_wpduet]

But here's the thing... how do you even know if you have surges? And if you do or don't have a surge, how do you know that that was the cause of a control board dying? That's what I've been saying. I honestly do not know if the surge protector is even doing ANYTHING at all. The only data I have is the fact that the first control board went out and was replaced with a new one and that since the new one was put on, it's been plugged into a surge protector and there hasn't been an issue... but at the same time, the dishwasher also has a control board and is NOT plugged into one and has had no issues.

 

[DADoES]

Some appliances have a surge surpressor (aka line filter) included among the onboard electrical components. An outboard one may be further helpful.

 

[vacerator]

Get a Zerosurge made in the USA.

All the surge protectors we usually have access too from the big box and online stores that promote Chinese made products, are based on a sacrificial element so they eventually burn out and also don't provide the same level of protection as they age. At least that's what I have read.

So a few years back on my big appliances, computers, home entertainment area, I switched to Zerosurge. They are made in the USA and do not use a sacrificial element so they supposedly will last forever. I have been using them for 6 years now and haven't lost anything to surges.

They are more expensive because they are longer lasting and made in the USA but I generally use their basic two outlet unit in front of bar plugs or a UPS (Uninterrupted power supply).

What is the sacrificial element?

 

[vacerator]

But here's the thing... how do you even know if you have surges? And if you do or don't have a surge, how do you know that that was the cause of a control board dying? That's what I've been saying. I honestly do not know if the surge protector is even doing ANYTHING at all. The only data I have is the fact that the first control board went out and was replaced with a new one and that since the new one was put on, it's been plugged into a surge protector and there hasn't been an issue... but at the same time, the dishwasher also has a control board and is NOT plugged into one and has had no issues.

I guess you only know for certain if the protector trips. I think mine cuts the power and you have to set the power switch off then back on.

 

[jkm]

What is the sacrificial element?

I don't know know. I imagine is like a giant fuse, except they are not replaceable. That's why most surge protection strips and even uninterrupted power supplies with surge protection have some want to indicate when the surge element is gone.

Of course it's a biased source, but ZeroSurge talks about sacrificial surge elements on their site. I will also say that ZeroSurge is NOT the only company that makes a mechanical, re-usable surge protector. The other brands I found weren't making there in the USA, so I've forgotten them by now.

 

[jkm]

But here's the thing... how do you even know if you have surges? And if you do or don't have a surge, how do you know that that was the cause of a control board dying? That's what I've been saying. I honestly do not know if the surge protector is even doing ANYTHING at all. The only data I have is the fact that the first control board went out and was replaced with a new one and that since the new one was put on, it's been plugged into a surge protector and there hasn't been an issue... but at the same time, the dishwasher also has a control board and is NOT plugged into one and has had no issues.

Although it's a biased source, if you did around on ZeroSurge's website they explain that most of the "surges" experienced in your house come from appliances that draw a lot of current immediately away from other devices when they start up. Supposedly there can be a spike after the initial big draw. The particularly cite vacuum cleaners... I'm not an expert enough to know whether that's accurate. But I do have a couple of things that will temporarily dim the lights when they start up. Also it probably depends upon the wiring. I have a couple of lights in the house that can't seem reliably run LED or Compact Fluorescent bulbs to their lifetime. It's like their power supply isn't consistent enough for more touchy modern lights.

As far as knowing, if I have surges, I can't really say except that I have lost items before without surge protectors and now that I have the ZeroSurges in place I haven't had any losses. That said, when a really big Texas thunderstorm rolls through I unplug everything anyway. Because even a ZeroSurge isn't going to protect you from that.

 

[vacerator]

Exactly JKM. So why spend hundreds of dollars on one? I'm unplugging everything at risk during a storm system and when we leave long term, including the surge protector.
Now I've seen a major data storage facility in Alpharetta GA that not only had one safety backup system but several. They handle benefits and payroll data for many companies. The power safety was in a junction unit outside the building. I was told that it would cut off the power before the surge exited it. Every system inside had battery operated storage backup power supplies.

 

[vacerator]

I don't know know. I imagine is like a giant fuse, except they are not replaceable. That's why most surge protection strips and even uninterrupted power supplies with surge protection have some want to indicate when the surge element is gone.

Of course it's a biased source, but ZeroSurge talks about sacrificial surge elements on their site. I will also say that ZeroSurge is NOT the only company that makes a mechanical, re-usable surge protector. The other brands I found weren't making there in the USA, so I've forgotten them by now.

The one I have is from China. It has a metal bottom and screws to remove it. I except it's like any electronic device that gets zapped by a surge. A capacitor, fuses,or two, and resistors. So checking it out with a meter and replacing the bad part's might be possible.

 

[me]

Most surge protectors use MOVs - Metal oxide Varistors, their resistance decreases as the voltage across them increases, and decreases sharply above a specified operating voltage, following a sort of bathtub curve. You'll typically find at least one MOV on the circuit board in most switch mode power supplies, including those used in appliances., they're usually a blue disc, and look a little like a ceramic disc capacitor.

A surge protector will typically use 3 MOVs, to connect between live, neutral and earth, so they dump the excess power from a surge, pulling down the voltage and therefore generating heat. The MOVs are degraded by surges, so don't last forever. Surge protectors may also have a fuse to kill the power before the mov gets overloaded, which might otherwise cause it to catch fire.

There's a much better explanation in Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varistor

There's a teardown, plus circuit diagram of a surge protection device here, with a LED to show if it is working or not.



Here's a more typical plug in one

I think the mains filters you find in appliances like washing machines primary purpose is to suppress common mode interference and mains spikes produced by the machine traveling up thee power line, so it doesn't cause electrical noise, and I think it may improve/ correct the power factor too. My mum had a nice 1980 microprocessor controlled Hotpoint (UK) washing machine, which had a large mains filter that violently exploded after about ten years, while I was using it. Didn't hurt the machine, which continued to work fine without one for years, once I'd cleaned up the mess and bridged past it, although the blast from it did hurt my face and hearing.