Kenmore Thin Belt Drive

[mrb627]

Was there a special marketing term for the Kenmore machines with the thin drive belt that made them so quiet?

Did Whirlpool have any models with the same drive?

Malcolm

 

[kenmoreguy64]

Malcolm,

I think at first, the skinny belt was meant for large capacity machines only, which at the time (in the mid to later 60s) was only the Kenmore 518. Whirlpool only had one or two 18lb. models as well but I can't recall if they had the skinny belt or not, I've only worked on a couple of these ever. I remember discussing this with John/Combo a few weekends back and I think we determined that WP never used this belt, at least in standard machines.

At least with Kenmore, there was initially no fanfare given to the belt at all. I think it was just a standard part of the large capacity bill-of-materials (large cap machines were "one-offs" back then anyway).

A few years later this belt was first transplanted into standard capacity machines, but I don't know what the purpose behind this was originally. Kenmore's advertising by the very early 1970s called it a "Quiet Pak" system. Incidentally, it was quieter in standard capacity machines than in large capacity. It certainly quiets large cap. models, but it's the standard ones that it makes nearly "silent" during operation. There was a Quiet Pak motor isolator kit that had bigger, neoprene insulators for the motor mounts. When used together this REALLY hushes a belt-drive.

The last models that I am aware of that used the skinny belt full-time were the 1972 Kenmore 700, 800, and 900 Lady K models in 29-inch standard capacity, the 1975 Kenmore 70-series large capacity machine, and the 1977 70-series 24-inch machine.

There were five versions of the TOL 1976 Lady K washer, meaning four mechanical revisions to the original. The original and the first revision have the thin belt, however, and oddly, the later three revisions have the 95405 common belt. Also oddly, a 90-series 1979 24-inch TOL model originally had the standard belt, but the first and only revision has the thin belt. I belive that revised 24-inch model was the very last to use it, as it was not featured in the any of the very comprehensive 29-inch 1979 line, or in any of the 1980s models.

Gordon

 

[DADoES]

 
I personally observed a Whirlpool LFA9800 that had the quiet-pak motor grommets but used a standard ribbed belt.  I ordered a set of the grommets (352955) to retrofit onto our LDA7800, not realizing initially that the motor brackets were different to accommodate the grommets ... so then I had to get a set of brackets as well.

Unless I'm wrong (which I could be), Whirlpool did use the belt as well, and on standard-capacity machines.  I recall going along on an "apprentice" service call (which happened to be to a friend's house), on a Imperial Mark XII (probably 1970 model) that they had gotten from his grandmother.  One thing the tech did was tighten the belt, which he remarked about it being that "skinny quiet-pak belt" and advised me that they need to be tighter than the standard ribbed belt.

 

[combo52]

SKINNY BELT FOE WP BUILT BD WASHERS

As Gordon stated this belt was first used only in the super capacity BD washers from WP & KM. These machines came out about 1967 under both the WP & KM names only one model in each name lineup. WP went back to the standard belt by 1971 for all the remaining BD machines they built, they never used it on any standard capacity or 24" WP branded machines to my knowledge. 

 

KM started using this belt around 1970 on certain standard cap models as a way to make a quieter machine, these models also had the special motor mounts and a rubber isolated motor pulley to further reduce the 60 cycle hum from the motor being transmitted to the rest of the washer. It is correct that WP used the motor mounts alone on Cretan hi end models to make them run more quietly. WP also sold a kit that had just the quite motor mounts and brackets to help quite the crappy square grey GE motors that were used in many 1970s WP built washers. WP and GE got into such a feud by 1980 that WP to this day has never used another GE motor in any washer, dryer, dishwasher or trashcompactor again.

 

[mrb627]

Wow

More information than I ever expected. Thanks for the schooling.

Did retrofitting the motor bracket and grommets make a big difference in noise or was it mostly the thin belt that did the silencing?

Malcolm

 

[kenmoreguy64]

Malcolm,

Retrofitting the motor mounting brackets won't quiet a machine much if it already has a smoothly operating motor. It can stop buzzing sounds in the colsole and cabinet, and if the service panel is a little loose, etc. but if there is a good motor being used, it won't have that huge an effect. Its the motor that can make or "ruin" a machine, and as John said, those GE motors weren't the best - they transmitted a lot of vibration in some cases which could be amplified up the centerpost, etc. especially in machines that were beginning to wear. Just a little bit of extra space between bearings and spin tube, and a little between the spin tube and the agitator shaft on a machine with a lousy motor and you've got a monster-truck competitor, not a woo-wooing WP belt-drive washer.

G

 

[bendixmark]

thin belts

I once sold a 1974 14 pound Inglis Whirlpool that had a skinny belt.Dont get me started on motors that hum excessively.

 

[rp2813]

My mom had a '75 Kenmore machine with "Quiet Pak" and I'm pretty sure it was their largest capacity available, but was a notch or two down from the LK model.  The console had the orange & brass timer panel with woodgrain side panels.

 

I replaced the thin belt once, somewhere between the five and ten-year mark.  The machine lasted for 25 years, never needed another belt, and remained super silent during agitation up until the end.  It was by far the quietest top loader I've ever (not) heard.

 

[kenmoreguy64]

Ralph -

I think this is the machine you're talking about? I rescued the cabinet and inner structure from scrap in the mid 1990s. I had the control panel hanging around, then in 2008 I sourced a new transmission pulley and pump pulley, and was able to assemble a transmission and get it put back together. This is a 1975 70-series, and it does have the skinny belt.

You're right about it's place in the line, as there was an 80-series (a '74 model) and the '74 Lady K as the only fancier machines available. There was also a '74 60, and a '75 500, all similar in styling. My Mom had the '74 60 series.

Did I get the machine right?

Gordon

 

[kenmoreguy64]

Here are the similar 60 and 500 models

I love these machines, this was the first new washer I remember getting. I liked this model so well I had to have two, LOL, it's the 1974 Kenmore 60 series. This has the standard belt.

 

[kenmoreguy64]

Here's the 1975 500

Essentially the same as the 60, but lacks the soak cycle and has three water levels vs. infinite.

 

[alr2903]

Gordon you know thats my favorite too,  Mom's had a pentVane, the silver panel 60 model.  IIRC it takes 26 gallons of water to fill one time?  Im glad you have these.  The matching dryer lasted 25 years with one belt change.  The folks never replaced anything that still worked.  I think she wore out  3 washers with the "green" dryer. She had a std cap. Tag prior to the 60  the load size the 60 could wash was almost like science fiction in the mid 1970's  alr2903

 

[combo52]

SKINNY BELT FOE WP BUILT BD WASHERS

Over the years that these belts were used they used two different type belts that were completely interchangeable. The original type was a very sturdy looking nylon belt with little notches on the BACK of the belt. In the early 1970s they changed to more conventual looking rubber and cloth belt that did not have the notches on the back and had a green cloth backing instead. The green belts did not hold up nearly as well and they soon went back to the original style belt as a replacement which is what you will get today. Note: WP has less than 80 of these belts still available, if you have a machine that uses one you may want to buy a spare.

 

[rp2813]

John, yes I remember the belt that I replaced had the green backing, and it had gotten to be fairly stringy. The new belt was the black-backed type, which explains why it lasted so much longer Gordon, that's almost my mom's machine but IIRC all of the smaller knobs for settings were located on the slanted part of the brushed metal top portion above the panel, and there may have been a 4th knob but I can't remember what it was for. The woodgrained sections had no knobs, just "Sears Kenmore" on one, and "Heavy Duty" on the other. Her machine had the "Penta Swirl" agitator. I don't know if that makes it newer or older than the one in your picture. For reliability, it was the best washer my mom ever owned, serving her longer than her previous three washers (two of them Norges) combined. It was still working when she made a service call to her home warranty provider because there was a foul odor when the washer started to fill. It likely just needed a hose changed somewhere, but the warranty service replaced the washer with a BOL GE while I was away on vacation and couldn't stop the process.

 

[kenmoreguy64]

Ralph,

What you're talking about is a 1974 Kenmore 70 - yes, just like you said, it's basically the same machine, but it had an "upper balcony" of controls and nothing in the woodgrain sections. It had one other knob, also just like you said, which is for a second rinse on/off. I have one of those as well but no pictures as yet.

I'll have to get some pics taken soon! This model would have been replaced presumably by the '75, but depending on when the 1975s came out, the '74 model could have been available well into 1975.

Gordon

 

[rp2813]

Gordon, thanks for confirming. I think my mom's washer was purchased in the spring of 1975, so it was likely a leftover 1974 machine. I wish I still had the literature for it because it might have been useful to someone here. I was so disgusted and annoyed when I saw that the machine had been replaced by a BOL GE that I remember tossing out all of the paperwork and owner's manual when I came across it.

 

[kenmoreguy64]

Ralph,

I understand the frustration. I have a story like that involves our '74, but from a different direction.

Our machine was the 1974 60 series, next model down from your Mom's. I remember shopping for it like it was yesterday - couldn't believe that my folks actually took me to Sears with them, and I could stay in the washer area for THE WHOLE TIME vs. being yanked away by my arm after 90 seconds of lid openings on every washer there, lol.

We (they) selected the large tub machine, to which Mom's comment was "Oy, there goes the water bill". My Dad barked and rolled his eyes. We wanted a match to our 1972 KM dryer, but all that was left was a Harvest floor model. If it was white we may have bought it.

Anyway, our '74 was troublesome. I remember the drain hose flying out of the standpipe in Denver, dumping 24-25 gallons onto the laundry room floor of our brand new house. That's not the machine's fault, but it seems to have started the madness. Later the mixing valve went out (we had nearly 90-psi water). I changed that myself. Then the basket drive failed, at only 7 years old. John/Combo told me the problem was fairly common, but I had learned my lesson when getting this machine that I was sorry to see the old one go. If I could have kept the old machine in the basement, the more the merrier, but my parents are not the type to do that, so out it would have gone.

I concocted a rescue plan using a self-purchased basket drive from Sears, and what was going be my Dad's unplanned labor to install it. It worked, and I saved us from buying a new machine (which Mom had already purchased but later cancelled).

About 18 months later the timer locked up, and my Dad had to somehow unlock it while I was in school. It worked but it broke a contact that allowed only rinse water temps after that.

When I was told that we would be moving to Charlotte, we had to get a new dryer as our gas KM dryer would not work here. 28 years later we still have very few gas dryers in Charlotte. Anyway, Mom said she was going to get a whole new pair as the old ones were 9 and 11 years old. I got really nervous, though new machines are fun, I still didn't want to get rid of the old.

Mom told me she was going to sell the machines to an appliance rental company for $150 for the pair. In my mind I was saying "Abso-freakin-lutely NOT!" So, I did the only thing I could think of, which was to sell them to a friend at work who needed a pair of good machines. She was thrilled with them, I was more than thrilled that I knew where they had gone, and Mom didn't give a rip where the money came from. So, we got the new KMs and I at least was able to keep tabs on the old ones for about 15 more years. Last I heard they were in their cousin's barn stored, and the washer had washed for more than 25 years.

Gordon

 

[rp2813]

Great story Gordon.  The problems with that '74 your parents had make my mom's despicable '67 Wards Signature 18 (which the '74 70 series replaced) seem almost well-behaved in comparison.

 

[westie2]

My older sister had the late 1975 early 1976 Kenmore that had the Penta Swirl agitqtor and Sears gave her the Dual Action when it came out later that year In 1976,  That washer did great for her until 2005.

 

[joefuss1984]

Here is a youtube video of the 1974 kenmore with the high mount knobs that Ralph speaks of