Belt drive....probably early 80's...last of the belt drives, in nice condition.....
185.00 OBO......in New Jersey......
185.00 OBO......in New Jersey......
Kenmore W/D for sale
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Interesting machines
The washer's top is oddly askew a bit. They don't typically get that way unless they've been moved recently or manhandled.
I expanded the pic to see some details of the washer's panel - it is a 23711 model. Martin is right that this is part of the last of the belt drives, but this one was made a few years before.
This model was available from mid 1983 until Fall, 1986. The first editions had the plastic lid hinges like this one does (see the second picture), whereas in late 1984 or early 1985, the old 1950s hinges were re-instated on the 23701 and 23711. The 23721 (the best selling Kenmore of the 1980s) and everything higher up never used the plastic hinges.
This is not a common model. Why the 23701 and 23721 were best sellers and this one was fairly rare I can't say. I have seen only four or five of these, whereas I've seen literally dozens of the other two models on either side of it in the line. I wanted this model when I bought my 23701, but my Mother said I didn't need the soak cycle (she was right) which was the only difference. I only wanted it because it was more like her washer.
Looks like a Soft-Heat dryer, and a nice overall pair. Dryer doesn't seem to have the white drum (late 1984 innovation?) so that's consistent with the plastic lid hinges, and I'd guess these have been together since delivery.
Gordon
The washer's top is oddly askew a bit. They don't typically get that way unless they've been moved recently or manhandled.
I expanded the pic to see some details of the washer's panel - it is a 23711 model. Martin is right that this is part of the last of the belt drives, but this one was made a few years before.
This model was available from mid 1983 until Fall, 1986. The first editions had the plastic lid hinges like this one does (see the second picture), whereas in late 1984 or early 1985, the old 1950s hinges were re-instated on the 23701 and 23711. The 23721 (the best selling Kenmore of the 1980s) and everything higher up never used the plastic hinges.
This is not a common model. Why the 23701 and 23721 were best sellers and this one was fairly rare I can't say. I have seen only four or five of these, whereas I've seen literally dozens of the other two models on either side of it in the line. I wanted this model when I bought my 23701, but my Mother said I didn't need the soak cycle (she was right) which was the only difference. I only wanted it because it was more like her washer.
Looks like a Soft-Heat dryer, and a nice overall pair. Dryer doesn't seem to have the white drum (late 1984 innovation?) so that's consistent with the plastic lid hinges, and I'd guess these have been together since delivery.
Gordon
redcarpetdrew
Well-known member
Gordon, I don't remember if you said that the speckled tub was common or rare for the yearage/feature level. They look pretty nice...
RCD
RCD
Andy -
The blue/gray speckled tub, which Sears called "Max spreckle" (go figure), was by this period used in everything from the 22101 (single cycle 1982 model) to almost the top end. There was one mid-line 80-series machine which took the entry level 80 series and added the Lady's snow white tub. Sears charged $10 more for the "double coated white basket". I'd have bought that machine on looks alone had I known (they were about $40 or $50 more than the 70 series I got) but the entry level 80 sold very well and was almost a best seller, whereas the $10 step-up 80 is rather rare.
Besides that machine and the Lady Kenmore, everything else had the speckled tub, even including the odd-ball Lady Kenmore from 1985 that you found, which even for a Lady K has the speckled tub.
G
The blue/gray speckled tub, which Sears called "Max spreckle" (go figure), was by this period used in everything from the 22101 (single cycle 1982 model) to almost the top end. There was one mid-line 80-series machine which took the entry level 80 series and added the Lady's snow white tub. Sears charged $10 more for the "double coated white basket". I'd have bought that machine on looks alone had I known (they were about $40 or $50 more than the 70 series I got) but the entry level 80 sold very well and was almost a best seller, whereas the $10 step-up 80 is rather rare.
Besides that machine and the Lady Kenmore, everything else had the speckled tub, even including the odd-ball Lady Kenmore from 1985 that you found, which even for a Lady K has the speckled tub.
G
70series
Well-known member
The last time that Kenmore branded washers, with any consistency, had the snow white basket in anything other than TOL models was the early 70s. It's interesting that throughout the 1960s to 1971, every model from the Ladies to the 70 series models had them. The speckled basket models were less plentiful, as those were only available in 600 and 500 models. After that you had the 400s on down which had the blue tubs. It must have been more cost effective to have the majority of models with the single coated speckle tub, especially with larger tubs becoming more the norm.
The Kenmores here are gorgeous, and I hope whoever buys them keeps them as a set.
Have a good one,
James
The Kenmores here are gorgeous, and I hope whoever buys them keeps them as a set.
Have a good one,
James
ovrphil
Well-known member
I'd replace any max spreckle with a white basket, now that I have learned it was an option at one time.
Well, it might not bother most people but that "Max Spreckle"(weird identity) looked like a primer. Even my humble old LA482 has a nicer looking basket. I'll stop there. ALWAYS interesting to hear details like these...
(the Lady Kenmore tubs were never pink, were they?)
Well, it might not bother most people but that "Max Spreckle"(weird identity) looked like a primer. Even my humble old LA482 has a nicer looking basket. I'll stop there. ALWAYS interesting to hear details like these...
(the Lady Kenmore tubs were never pink, were they?)
70series
Well-known member
Nope.
aldspinboy
Well-known member
Nice pair Martin.
Gordon thanks for the information you always learn.
What about the light gray speackle tub models ?
I assumed it was the way they sprayed them on a days work.
And some where light and some really navy blue with white specks...
Ovrphil,...
That picture looks like it is pink and never notice it,
but seems it is the lighting.
No there where no pink tubs.
Here is my tub in a better light in snow white.
[this post was last edited: 10/3/2012-03:55]
Gordon thanks for the information you always learn.
What about the light gray speackle tub models ?
I assumed it was the way they sprayed them on a days work.
And some where light and some really navy blue with white specks...
Ovrphil,...
That picture looks like it is pink and never notice it,
but seems it is the lighting.
No there where no pink tubs.
Here is my tub in a better light in snow white.
[this post was last edited: 10/3/2012-03:55]
aldspinboy
Well-known member
Gordon this is the tub I am talking about...
Light gray speackled...
Darren k
Light gray speackled...
Darren k
Darren -
The light gray speckled tub, at least I think, seems more of a super light beige, or maybe a pale taupe color? This color tub was used in Kenmores (I don't know about Whirlpools!) in the upper ended models, from the mid 1970s until mid 1981. In the lower models of the same period, the blue/gray dark speckled tubs were used.
I had always noticed that there were two distinct tub colors, but never gave more thought to them then that, until one day a few years ago, and I did some part number research. Previously, I thought the same thing you did - that these variations were just random. I was surprised to learn that the each tub color has its own part number, or a number for the standard cap tub in blue gray, and a number for the standard cap tub in light beige (or whatever you want to call that). The same was true for the large capacity versions. In 1978 when the centerpost height was reduced, new part numbers were issued for the same variety of blue-gray tubs, and light beige tubs. I was surprised to learn that these tub color differences were intentional, and clearly planned for use on various models, though Sears seldom if ever mentioned this in marketing materials.
What I found out was that in general, with a couple exceptions, the 70-series machines were the cut-off marker, in that all 60-series and below machines got the blue-gray tub, and everything 70 and above got the light beige. The light beige tub seems to have much more lusterous or luxurious layer of porcelain, so I'm thinking that these were essentially the 1970s version of the fancy white tubs that were so common in the 1960s. From 1976 - 1981, there were very few white tubs, if any, in Kenmores anyway.
In this period, Sears had several 'doorbuster' models, or as I have learned recently, they were called "Promotional" models. These were models added to the line after the original yearly models were drawn up, and were de-contented a bit to be offered at steeply discounted prices.
For example, the 1977 70 series has the beige tub, 4-water levels, and a out of balance relay. The deconted promotional 70 has three levels, no relay, and the blue-gray tub. The same was done in 1979, and these were very good sellers as Sears liked to have their Promotional models on sale often. In 1979, this same arrangement was done in the 80-series line as well, and thus created the 1979 80 series that I bought for my sister used in 1989. It has the highest 80-series model number (meaning it should be the fanciest) but it has the fewest features of that year's 80 series, and again, the blue-gray tub. This machine has been my daily driver since shortly after finding AW.org in 2008. There was a long line of models in 1979, but the most common I've come across is this promotional 80-series.
In 1980, the entry 70 series, which had no dispensers, got the blue-gray tub, and the next step up, which had both softener and bleach dispensers on the otherwise identical machine, got the beige tub, as did everything above it, even the electronic Lady Kenmore.
When the belt-drive received a freshening in later 1981 to reduce water consumption in the large capacity models, the baskets reverted to the more familiar BOL blue, mid-line blue-gray, and TOL snow white (although the BOL blue was used only on the "Regular capacity" machine as they called it, which was the 24-inch machine). This was the year that Sears dropped the 29-inch standard capacity belt-drive. I do not believe this pale beige color was used in KMs after that. During this time, I've not seen any Whirlpools that used anything but the blue-gray tub until the white tubs were back in vogue although others such as Glen may be able to elaborate on the WPs of the same period?
Gordon
The light gray speckled tub, at least I think, seems more of a super light beige, or maybe a pale taupe color? This color tub was used in Kenmores (I don't know about Whirlpools!) in the upper ended models, from the mid 1970s until mid 1981. In the lower models of the same period, the blue/gray dark speckled tubs were used.
I had always noticed that there were two distinct tub colors, but never gave more thought to them then that, until one day a few years ago, and I did some part number research. Previously, I thought the same thing you did - that these variations were just random. I was surprised to learn that the each tub color has its own part number, or a number for the standard cap tub in blue gray, and a number for the standard cap tub in light beige (or whatever you want to call that). The same was true for the large capacity versions. In 1978 when the centerpost height was reduced, new part numbers were issued for the same variety of blue-gray tubs, and light beige tubs. I was surprised to learn that these tub color differences were intentional, and clearly planned for use on various models, though Sears seldom if ever mentioned this in marketing materials.
What I found out was that in general, with a couple exceptions, the 70-series machines were the cut-off marker, in that all 60-series and below machines got the blue-gray tub, and everything 70 and above got the light beige. The light beige tub seems to have much more lusterous or luxurious layer of porcelain, so I'm thinking that these were essentially the 1970s version of the fancy white tubs that were so common in the 1960s. From 1976 - 1981, there were very few white tubs, if any, in Kenmores anyway.
In this period, Sears had several 'doorbuster' models, or as I have learned recently, they were called "Promotional" models. These were models added to the line after the original yearly models were drawn up, and were de-contented a bit to be offered at steeply discounted prices.
For example, the 1977 70 series has the beige tub, 4-water levels, and a out of balance relay. The deconted promotional 70 has three levels, no relay, and the blue-gray tub. The same was done in 1979, and these were very good sellers as Sears liked to have their Promotional models on sale often. In 1979, this same arrangement was done in the 80-series line as well, and thus created the 1979 80 series that I bought for my sister used in 1989. It has the highest 80-series model number (meaning it should be the fanciest) but it has the fewest features of that year's 80 series, and again, the blue-gray tub. This machine has been my daily driver since shortly after finding AW.org in 2008. There was a long line of models in 1979, but the most common I've come across is this promotional 80-series.
In 1980, the entry 70 series, which had no dispensers, got the blue-gray tub, and the next step up, which had both softener and bleach dispensers on the otherwise identical machine, got the beige tub, as did everything above it, even the electronic Lady Kenmore.
When the belt-drive received a freshening in later 1981 to reduce water consumption in the large capacity models, the baskets reverted to the more familiar BOL blue, mid-line blue-gray, and TOL snow white (although the BOL blue was used only on the "Regular capacity" machine as they called it, which was the 24-inch machine). This was the year that Sears dropped the 29-inch standard capacity belt-drive. I do not believe this pale beige color was used in KMs after that. During this time, I've not seen any Whirlpools that used anything but the blue-gray tub until the white tubs were back in vogue although others such as Glen may be able to elaborate on the WPs of the same period?
Gordon
aldspinboy
Well-known member
Thank you Gordon for that great information .
A good old new navy tub with speacks is my faverite.
Because I guess I grew up with them.
But a new white tub is AS nice.
Thanks.
Darren k
A good old new navy tub with speacks is my faverite.
Because I guess I grew up with them.
But a new white tub is AS nice.
Thanks.
Darren k
ovrphil
Well-known member
What an amazing, interesting wealth of information, stemming from tub color..add my thanks to Darren K's.
Porcelain was the more expensive finish, it appears - so the speckled treatment saved Sears/Kenmore x-amount during times that probably required some cost savings. If so, then in the last century, nearly every decade saw a financial downturn that we lived through...i.e; 1961, 1971,1981. These were times businesses were looking for ways to trim costs-maybe the option of speckled blue/gray tubs were part of their cost-savings strategies? I don't know if anyone complained about the color of the tubs? Other than that, and Sears not mentioning the the new blue and blue-gray tubs as something to focus on, what other reason for not using porcelain exclusively?
That light-gray speckled tub is new to me. The Kenmore we have at my mother-in-law's house is the darker one. I don't think it's smooth inside, like the porcelain whites. So - Darren K : Is that light-speckled gray smooth or slightly rough to the touch? I seem to remember only the porcelain finishes being ultra-smooth...but I might be wrong.
Call me crazy, but I like porcelain and think if you're going to use it, offer blue, pink,blue-turquoise lagoon green, and white. In my dreams.
Great thread, thanks everyone!
Aldspinboy: I thought white, but looks cool in pink(I'm not necessarily thinking Pink Suds...)
Porcelain was the more expensive finish, it appears - so the speckled treatment saved Sears/Kenmore x-amount during times that probably required some cost savings. If so, then in the last century, nearly every decade saw a financial downturn that we lived through...i.e; 1961, 1971,1981. These were times businesses were looking for ways to trim costs-maybe the option of speckled blue/gray tubs were part of their cost-savings strategies? I don't know if anyone complained about the color of the tubs? Other than that, and Sears not mentioning the the new blue and blue-gray tubs as something to focus on, what other reason for not using porcelain exclusively?
That light-gray speckled tub is new to me. The Kenmore we have at my mother-in-law's house is the darker one. I don't think it's smooth inside, like the porcelain whites. So - Darren K : Is that light-speckled gray smooth or slightly rough to the touch? I seem to remember only the porcelain finishes being ultra-smooth...but I might be wrong.
Call me crazy, but I like porcelain and think if you're going to use it, offer blue, pink,blue-turquoise lagoon green, and white. In my dreams.
Great thread, thanks everyone!
Aldspinboy: I thought white, but looks cool in pink(I'm not necessarily thinking Pink Suds...)
1966_mustang
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2011
- Messages
- 153
Hey I often wondered this as well when it came to tub color...
Can someone post some photos of the diffenet colors they are talking about??
Also does anyone know of a tub for sale? I need one... with the long center post..
Can someone post some photos of the diffenet colors they are talking about??
Also does anyone know of a tub for sale? I need one... with the long center post..
Requested pictures of tubs
I have some tub pictures - I could take better ones at home, but I will post some that I can access right now.
Before I post those however, let it be understood that all Kenmore and WP belt-drive tubs are porcelain coated, and are thus porcelain smooth. New, they are all fairly glossy as well, but the double coated white ones are richer and more substantial looking than the BOL blue and the speckled ones.
Also, tubs wear at different rates depending on detergents used, water hardness, etc. I have seen some tubs become quite dull with abrasiveness of minerals and detergent, while others remain pristine.
I have some tub pictures - I could take better ones at home, but I will post some that I can access right now.
Before I post those however, let it be understood that all Kenmore and WP belt-drive tubs are porcelain coated, and are thus porcelain smooth. New, they are all fairly glossy as well, but the double coated white ones are richer and more substantial looking than the BOL blue and the speckled ones.
Also, tubs wear at different rates depending on detergents used, water hardness, etc. I have seen some tubs become quite dull with abrasiveness of minerals and detergent, while others remain pristine.
First up
1965/1966 Kenmore 400 entry level washer with what we're calling the 'BOL blue' basket. This one is still nice and shiny - these are about the first to wear. I have one which is worn down to the metal and the owner said it transferred rust stains onto the clothes. It however is very well used...
Picture borrowed from Robert's 2008 "Memories of Estate Sale Saturdays" Thread, which I still enjoy revisitin.
1965/1966 Kenmore 400 entry level washer with what we're calling the 'BOL blue' basket. This one is still nice and shiny - these are about the first to wear. I have one which is worn down to the metal and the owner said it transferred rust stains onto the clothes. It however is very well used...
Picture borrowed from Robert's 2008 "Memories of Estate Sale Saturdays" Thread, which I still enjoy revisitin.
1979 Kenmore 500
Same basket dimensions, in blue/gray speckle, aka "max spreckle".
This is the blue basket above, with a second coating of white flung on, and more glaze.
The agitator is the follow-on to the black bakelite version as well.
Same basket dimensions, in blue/gray speckle, aka "max spreckle".
This is the blue basket above, with a second coating of white flung on, and more glaze.
The agitator is the follow-on to the black bakelite version as well.
Same basic basket with a larger Super Roto-Swirl to do the work
Darren's white standard tub is the bomb, so no reason to post another.
Here is the blue/gray large capacity tub. I wish I could find a better shot, but this is all I could find of my own pictures.
Moocho larger, this in a 1975 Kenmore mid line 500 series. Agitator is a Penta-Vane.
Here is the blue/gray large capacity tub. I wish I could find a better shot, but this is all I could find of my own pictures.
Moocho larger, this in a 1975 Kenmore mid line 500 series. Agitator is a Penta-Vane.
Same tub in the beige speckled tub that we discussed earlier. This one is nice and un-scuffed. I have it in one of those promotional 1977 Kenmores I mentioned, thus it isn't the proper basket, but I didn't have a blue gray tub to fit, so I installed this one instead. The original was eaten away by industrial detergents and mop heads. I scavenged this tub from behind a used appliance store before it was tossed into a dumpster heading to a recycler. YAY!
Agitator is a Penta-Swirl. This is a very unassuming agitator, but it does a heck of a job unless you overload it.
1974 Lady Kenmores used this tub, however in snow white - one of the only white applications I know of from the mid 1970s. They are stunning.
Agitator is a Penta-Swirl. This is a very unassuming agitator, but it does a heck of a job unless you overload it.
1974 Lady Kenmores used this tub, however in snow white - one of the only white applications I know of from the mid 1970s. They are stunning.
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