mikeymatic
Well-known member
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Keymatic 3224
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mikeymatic
Well-known member
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mikeymatic
Well-known member
Service Manual
Hi Mike
Yes, I've got the Service Manual.
Above are a couple more pics. I'll have a look at the wiring.
I'm away to study the service manual a bit more before doing anything else !
Mike.
Hi Mike
Yes, I've got the Service Manual.
Above are a couple more pics. I'll have a look at the wiring.
I'm away to study the service manual a bit more before doing anything else !
Mike.
mikeymatic
Well-known member
Switch on
Power switched on but no programme starting when keyplate pressed in.
post was last edited: 4/28/2016-19:34]
Power switched on but no programme starting when keyplate pressed in.
post was last edited: 4/28/2016-19:34]
mikeymatic
Well-known member
Bottom Distribution Block
Wires wiped so the colours are visible.
View from the rear.
Wires wiped so the colours are visible.
View from the rear.
mikeymatic
Well-known member
Top Distribution Block
View from rear.
View from rear.
mikeymatic
Well-known member
Programme switch
View from rear.
View from rear.
What program?
Hi what program did you select. If it was any that started with a full that maybe the correct thing to do. Normally if program selected and keyplate removed then it clicks to end tumbling and spinning and pumping for a second or two each time it passes the right points. Have you tried the spin only program ?
Richard
Hi what program did you select. If it was any that started with a full that maybe the correct thing to do. Normally if program selected and keyplate removed then it clicks to end tumbling and spinning and pumping for a second or two each time it passes the right points. Have you tried the spin only program ?
Richard
triumphdolomite
Well-known member
Wiring
Mike
I've just been and had a look at mine and the wiring on that comes round the outside of that LHS upright too, I did think that it was a bit close to the rear panel when its on, perhaps this was something that was changed early on. I notice that Mikes machine has the numbered components too.
I wonder if the bezel was going to be blue originally and was changed to black early on in production.
Ian
Mike
I've just been and had a look at mine and the wiring on that comes round the outside of that LHS upright too, I did think that it was a bit close to the rear panel when its on, perhaps this was something that was changed early on. I notice that Mikes machine has the numbered components too.
I wonder if the bezel was going to be blue originally and was changed to black early on in production.
Ian
mikeymatic
Well-known member
Programme
Hi Richard.
Tried Spin Only, Mnimum Iron and Whites.
It seems as though the timer has already started when you switch the 'on' switch on, before even pressing the keyplate in. It's just whirring and not progressing through any programme, even after pressing in the keyplate.
I've checked the wiring against the service manual and it seems OK.
Will have a think about what my next steps will be.
Mike.
Hi Richard.
Tried Spin Only, Mnimum Iron and Whites.
It seems as though the timer has already started when you switch the 'on' switch on, before even pressing the keyplate in. It's just whirring and not progressing through any programme, even after pressing in the keyplate.
I've checked the wiring against the service manual and it seems OK.
Will have a think about what my next steps will be.
Mike.
mikeymatic
Well-known member
Wiring
Hi Ian
I thought it looked a bit odd to have so much wiring on the edge of the frame, but if yours is the same it must have been an early feature.
Not sure about the colouring - the blue mustn't have lasted long.
Mike.
Hi Ian
I thought it looked a bit odd to have so much wiring on the edge of the frame, but if yours is the same it must have been an early feature.
Not sure about the colouring - the blue mustn't have lasted long.
Mike.
Wiring Loom
Great to see the insides mike and yes years of grime on those wires and all that color revealed. It has had a new timer and wiring loom update at some point. The original timer for this early production number was an AU TYPE, and had 2 wiring loom changes, yours is an AT Timer which is a 4th version timer with a 3rd version wiring loom, the book says this wiring loom is to be "Re-Routed down the LHS Rear Frame Member" so there we have it.
Am building a spreadsheet of our 3224 models showing production numbers, original timers & harnesses and what we have now if upgraded. !! All in all the 3224 series had 4 different timers as upgrades with 5 wiring loom upgrades as well.
Ian, I hadnt noticed the loom on yours , just found this info whilst searching for something else...interesting that both yours are doing the same cycling, I wonder if you have to start the water valves, heater, motor pump initially to cycle the timer, dunno thinking aloud. That bezel is bugging me cos all the first pics and advertising show the black on red fascia?? a mystery indeed !!
Great to see the insides mike and yes years of grime on those wires and all that color revealed. It has had a new timer and wiring loom update at some point. The original timer for this early production number was an AU TYPE, and had 2 wiring loom changes, yours is an AT Timer which is a 4th version timer with a 3rd version wiring loom, the book says this wiring loom is to be "Re-Routed down the LHS Rear Frame Member" so there we have it.
Am building a spreadsheet of our 3224 models showing production numbers, original timers & harnesses and what we have now if upgraded. !! All in all the 3224 series had 4 different timers as upgrades with 5 wiring loom upgrades as well.
Ian, I hadnt noticed the loom on yours , just found this info whilst searching for something else...interesting that both yours are doing the same cycling, I wonder if you have to start the water valves, heater, motor pump initially to cycle the timer, dunno thinking aloud. That bezel is bugging me cos all the first pics and advertising show the black on red fascia?? a mystery indeed !!
Oh dear
I'm out of ideas !! Sorry. How long have you let it sit ticking away ? It may be stuck mid cycle and a bit slow ?
Good luck
Richard
I'm out of ideas !! Sorry. How long have you let it sit ticking away ? It may be stuck mid cycle and a bit slow ?
Good luck
Richard
mikeymatic
Well-known member
Wiring loom
Mike - thanks for working that out - it would have taken me ages ( if at all ! ) I'll re-check the wiring tomorrow - my head is buzzing with wires & positions !
Let me know if you need any info. for your spreadsheet.
Richard - I let it run for about 30 secs. I'll give it another go tomorrow and run it for longer. I have a feeling it's something small preventing it from starting the programme.
Thanks for your messages guys.
Mike.
Mike - thanks for working that out - it would have taken me ages ( if at all ! ) I'll re-check the wiring tomorrow - my head is buzzing with wires & positions !
Let me know if you need any info. for your spreadsheet.
Richard - I let it run for about 30 secs. I'll give it another go tomorrow and run it for longer. I have a feeling it's something small preventing it from starting the programme.
Thanks for your messages guys.
Mike.
Just looking
Just looking at pictures it seems the time line has moved all be it back wards or through a full cycle the indicator line looks closer to start in video than in pic 1. I think from the sound it could be s stuck solenoid in the timer box. Perhaps you could open up and see if it needs freeing ? It could just be the camera picking up noise.
Good luck
Richard
Just looking at pictures it seems the time line has moved all be it back wards or through a full cycle the indicator line looks closer to start in video than in pic 1. I think from the sound it could be s stuck solenoid in the timer box. Perhaps you could open up and see if it needs freeing ? It could just be the camera picking up noise.
Good luck
Richard
mikeymatic
Well-known member
Timer
Thanks Richard.
I'll investigate inside the timer today or tomorrow.
I actually moved the timeline display ribbon along myself after the first pic.
Updates to follow
Cheers,
Mike.
Thanks Richard.
I'll investigate inside the timer today or tomorrow.
I actually moved the timeline display ribbon along myself after the first pic.
Updates to follow
Cheers,
Mike.
alanlondon
Well-known member
Hi Mike, I've not had mine going with water in it now for over 25 years, but seem to remember the noise is similar to when it tumbles and pauses when it is heating the water (in a pause phase). As others have said, sounds probably like a solenoid sticking in the timer. What about disconnecting the heater first (so you don't accidentally turn it on) and then blow into the two pressure switches to fool the machine into thinking it has water in it? might make a different connection in the timer and free something? Failing that shine a torch into the key plate hole and check all the pins are down (mine are all down, a bit uneven though), perhaps one is stuck? Very pleased another one has been found. I have a door boot for mine, but would join forces to get some more made. Best of luck, let us know how you get on! Cheers, Alan
keymatic3203
Well-known member
The power of advertising
Well done on this one Mike, and as several members here have proved, it's surprising what is still out there if you pop an advert up.
Firstly sorry for the late reply, if only the computer was as reliable as my old hoover 1100, I'd have chipped in before.
I agree the control panel is a lovely blue and red contrast, I notice like mine there is no hoover badge on the door, so I wonder what date that comes from, it's black design like mikes, but the original one dark red one piece keyplate.
So onto my thoughts, I agree with Alans suggestions, try tripping the pressure stats etc. The keymatic timer works using a series of impulse paths, so in order to index on, a circuit needs to be completed, such as a pressure switch, thermostat, internal timer or one of the keyplate switches. So the timer sounds like its waiting for a circuit to be completed, so thats where Alans suggestions would be a place to start.
But also to add, on the side of the timer where the cable comes out is a little viewing window where a disc with a number rotates showing which timer increment the switch has reached, 0 being off, I think it's a 40 or 45 segment timer, so again this may give a clue as to where the machine stopped and a clue as to a fault.
Next idea, I did have a real rust bucket of a keymatic years ago, long gone now, but the timer just hummed, but the cable drive to the indicator tape looked rusty and very stiff, so I disconnected it and the timer whirred into life.
Finally, there isn't a solinoid in the timer, just one motor that both times and advances, there is a large resisitor that reduces the motor voltage whilst timing, frequency is the same so the rotation speed is constant. For rapid advance the full voltage is put across the motor, causing the rotor to slide laterally in its bearings against a spring, engaging the advance gearing. This is what we found with Ians timer, the one pictured above, a few drops of oil freed it up and it then advanced away beautifully. It does seem odd that a sleeve bearing is fine to rotate but not to slide, but I've seen it on Ians and a couple of others. The real hope is that your timer case is nut and bolted together rather than rivited.
So Thats my thoughts, hope they will be of some help, oh and of course I'll chip in to the door gasket fabrication consortium.
mathew
Well done on this one Mike, and as several members here have proved, it's surprising what is still out there if you pop an advert up.
Firstly sorry for the late reply, if only the computer was as reliable as my old hoover 1100, I'd have chipped in before.
I agree the control panel is a lovely blue and red contrast, I notice like mine there is no hoover badge on the door, so I wonder what date that comes from, it's black design like mikes, but the original one dark red one piece keyplate.
So onto my thoughts, I agree with Alans suggestions, try tripping the pressure stats etc. The keymatic timer works using a series of impulse paths, so in order to index on, a circuit needs to be completed, such as a pressure switch, thermostat, internal timer or one of the keyplate switches. So the timer sounds like its waiting for a circuit to be completed, so thats where Alans suggestions would be a place to start.
But also to add, on the side of the timer where the cable comes out is a little viewing window where a disc with a number rotates showing which timer increment the switch has reached, 0 being off, I think it's a 40 or 45 segment timer, so again this may give a clue as to where the machine stopped and a clue as to a fault.
Next idea, I did have a real rust bucket of a keymatic years ago, long gone now, but the timer just hummed, but the cable drive to the indicator tape looked rusty and very stiff, so I disconnected it and the timer whirred into life.
Finally, there isn't a solinoid in the timer, just one motor that both times and advances, there is a large resisitor that reduces the motor voltage whilst timing, frequency is the same so the rotation speed is constant. For rapid advance the full voltage is put across the motor, causing the rotor to slide laterally in its bearings against a spring, engaging the advance gearing. This is what we found with Ians timer, the one pictured above, a few drops of oil freed it up and it then advanced away beautifully. It does seem odd that a sleeve bearing is fine to rotate but not to slide, but I've seen it on Ians and a couple of others. The real hope is that your timer case is nut and bolted together rather than rivited.
So Thats my thoughts, hope they will be of some help, oh and of course I'll chip in to the door gasket fabrication consortium.
mathew
mikeymatic
Well-known member
Timer
Thanks for taking the time to respond and for the vital information that I need.
The timer case was luckily nut and bolted together so it's now apart.
The timer increment has stopped at number 21.
Mat -
Where would I put the drops of oil in ?
The machine had also sprung to life and the pump motor is working !
Mike.
Thanks for taking the time to respond and for the vital information that I need.
The timer case was luckily nut and bolted together so it's now apart.
The timer increment has stopped at number 21.
Mat -
Where would I put the drops of oil in ?
The machine had also sprung to life and the pump motor is working !
Mike.
mikeymatic
Well-known member
Back to Life !!
And the machine has fully sprung to life and advanced through to the end !!! The timer clicked past whatever it was sticking on.
Split seconds of action, as I would expect, by the pump turning on and the drum turning !!!!
Very happy !!!!
Thanks for all the tips so far.
Contemplating my next steps.
Any advice greatly appreciated.
Happy Mikey !
And the machine has fully sprung to life and advanced through to the end !!! The timer clicked past whatever it was sticking on.
Split seconds of action, as I would expect, by the pump turning on and the drum turning !!!!
Very happy
!!!! Thanks for all the tips so far.
Contemplating my next steps.
Any advice greatly appreciated.
Happy Mikey !
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