Kitchenaid K--17 question

[ZsaZsa]

I love this web site! Anyway, my father has a late 1970's KitchenAid dishwasher, model K??17. (Lost the scrap of paper I wrote it on.) It has run beautifully for 30 years until recently. It made a sort of grinding noise while running, then leaked some water so he stopped using it. I would love to get this fixed - will a repair person be able to get parts? If he says he can't, will I be able to find parts myself if I'm persistent? Mind you, I'm unable to harvest my own parts from old washers. My appliance skills are limited to swiping a credit card, and having looked at the dishwasher offerings in stores this weekend, I refuse! Help?
p.s. I found this picture of the same model in turquoise.

 

[qsd-dan]

Welcome!

Your 17 series machine was made from 06/1971 - 07/1974

It made a sort of grinding noise while running, then leaked some water

I'm sounds like something got caught in the impeller and possibly destroyed the seal at the same time. Seems like every Kitchen-Aid I get into has glass shards that worked their way to the impeller. Hopefully the grinding sound wasn't the motor bearings seizing up.

I haven't played around with a 17, but the lower wash arm lifts right up, as well as the filter housing. There should be 4 screws that hold the upper half of the wash arm support. Things get fuzzy for me after this step (haven't been inside one for a year now), but the problem may reveal itself at this point. When I get home, I'll dig out the manual and scan a few pages for ya.

If a seal and drain impeller kit is needed, it's part # 117011 directly from a Hobart office. As our resident Hobart guru Stevet always says, don't tell them it's a Kitchen-Aid dishwasher or they'll refer you to Whirlpool (Whirlpool bought out KA in 1987).

 

[rollermatic]

motors and some pump

parts are still out there too, usually on e bay. maybe someone in your area with a bit of kitchenaid experience can look at yours.

 

[rollermatic]

if you or anyone

you know is up to taking it apart and checking it out there are people here, including myself who can help you.

i collect kitchenaids and have your model as well as other 17 series machines. what concerns me is when you said water was leaking out.

you can e mail me direct if you like. [email protected]

 

[ZsaZsa]

Thank you for your replies. I doubt there's any broken glass involved - he never breaks things. They make jokes about people who load their dishwashers as carefully as he does. So if it was the motor bearings seizing up, which they'd have every right to do after 30+ years, I'd need a new motor & probably seal(s). Still worth doing.
I would enjoy taking a look at it though, so let me ask you a dopey question - can I just pull the machine out from under the counter and unplug it? I don't suppose it has wheels- what would you use on the floor to make the sliding out easier (and protect the floor)? Is there a plug and outlet inside there or is it hardwired in?
Thanks again.

 

[stevet]

Sure sounds scary!

ZsaZsa,
This machine is not ready to be buried just yet... Itr's only 30 years old!
However, you did not say how often it is used. If it is only used a few times a week, or less, then it is possible that the shaft seal did fail and water leaked down into the motor bearing which would eventually cause the grinding noise you heard. Tis series of machines lacked any type of macerator or grinder to chop up anything that got into the pump and relied on the multiple filters in the machine to stop just about evrything from wrecking theings. But sometimes things got by them. But also, after 30 years, the shaft seal could easily have given out.

As was mentioned, they are available from Hobart under the 117011 part number and lists for 30.70
Hobart carries a replacement motor assy for your motor but the gaskets will be different and it is also priced much higher than what WShirlpool and other distributors will charge for the Whirlpool replacement. You can try Marcone Parts which has a cool catalog feature you can browse thru and also you will often find these kits on Ebay.

As far as pulling the machine out, it has NO wheels, Is usually secured to the countertop and is hard plumbed in as well as usually hard wired in meaning it is connected with a cable directly to the circuit breaker/fuse panel. Some were connected with a service cord that plugs into an outlet, but I would venture to guiess that 30 years ago, that would be an exception and not the rule.
It will most likely much easier to remove the machine from its current home in order to replace the motor because it drops down out of the tank to the floor and can be hard to remove with all the wiring and such under the machine. An experienced tech can sometimes have problems doing it so I would take it out.
It also will allow you to re-insulate the unit to makie it quieter and help retain the heat of the water in it since it sounds like it may be one of the models without any supplemental heating in the tank.

If you have more questions, feel free to contact me or any of the people here or post them on this forum and we will see what we can do to help.
Here is a link for the complete pump replacement kit and shows all the parts you will get in the kit andyou will have all you need to do the job. This kit fits the 16 and 17 series and the motor parts will fit the 15 series as well as long as you use the old gaskets on the 15's.

http://www.repairclinic.com/PartDetail/Pump-Component/560788?modelNumber=KDS-17

 

[ZsaZsa]

Update

Thanks again for the info regarding parts - it came in handy. I called the repair service and described the problem. I was advised that they will probably not be able to locate parts for this machine. I said I'd be happy to pay for a diagnosis anyway, and if I can track down the part myself I'll do it and call them back for the installation. Hope he doesn't mind an audience while he works
Stevet, you mentioned Hobart vs. Whirlpool parts. Is there a difference in quality as well as cost? Is there a difference in quality between 1970's Hobart parts and later Hobart parts?
I hope to know exactly what part(s) we're talking about by Sunday so I'll update then. Many thanks!

 

[stevet]

Parts is parts!

Zsa Zsa,
There is no difference in the parts we are talking about concerning the motor and seal kit. Hobart used to make their own motors for the Kitchenaid dishwashers but when it was sold to Whirlpool,it appeared that the plant that made the motors went to WP as well and they did not see fit to continue building all these items. Eventually, they had Emerson make the motors for these units as they were making them for the WP products already.
What was interesting was that at the time the sale was made, Hobart was still building commercial undercounter dishwashers which used the same motors as the 18,19,20 series machines so eventually there arose a need to source replacement parts for them and they used the Whirlpool.Emerson motors. The current SR24 series undercounter machines use that same pump to this day. About 2 years ago I actually had to install 2 pumps just like yours in a very old Hobart WM series dishwasher(it was nearly 30 years old too). It is the same one you see in the link but more expensive and it uses a capacitor to start the motor.The one you see uses a starting relay which serves the same purpose.(no need to discuss the technical reasons for the difference)

So long story short: Almost zero difference in quality, just a difference in connections and price.

Hope that helps.

 

[rollermatic]

steve, question if you see this

please!

are you saying it's better to run the dishwashers frequently to help prevent seal leakage? most of my kitchenaids are in good working order, especially my kd-12's kd-14, kd-15's, 16's kd-5, and several 17's and 18's. a couple do have new seals, most have the originals but do not leak and run great.

i thought it was better not to run them so the sumps wouldn't have water in them and contribute to rusting.

if i should run them frequently to keep seals moist i will start doing so.

thanks

 

[ZsaZsa]

Update

The repairman looked at the washer today. The problem is the washer motor. In addition to the cost of the motor if I can find it, the labor would be $300 bucks. I can't see myself doing the work myself, especially in my father's kitchen. At this point I'm considering putting it up for adoption. I've got some photos that I'll post with a new topic, like Available KDC17. I hope someone in the northeast will be interested.
Thanks!
ZsaZsa

 

[stevet]

Hmmm, in the wrong business!

Let's see... 300 bucks to remove a total of a dozen screws and a few hoses and wires.. The guy must have hands of gold!
If you can't do it yourself or find someone who can do it for a more reasonable price, it may pay to search out a suitable replacement.
Sure will be sad to see it go to the crusher unless someone on here is close enough to tackle the job for you.

You know the motors are available so it is up to you to make the choice.

 

[ZsaZsa]

I won't let it go to the crusher. If and when he gets a new machine, I'll have them move it to the garage. In the meantime I'll have a look at what's out there motorwise.

 

[rollermatic]

if you do keep it in your

garage and a motor can be found there are people here including myself who could talk you thru this repair. phone conversation would be much better than e mails. i have free long distance like a lot of others i am sure.

i scan e bay all the time for kitchenaid and frigidaire parts, i will keep an eye out for a motor for you.

please don't send it to the garbage, storing in your garage is a great idea if you have room. surely someone here will want it if you decide not to tackle it. if no one else takes it and i can find a way to get it to ohio reasonably i will take it. i always am open to taking in more 17 models, my favorite kitchenaid.

maybe parts will come your way and either you or someone you know can replace that motor and put in a new seal.