Kitchenaid KDS-20 Energy Saver V Superba by Hobart

[cschuller]

Hi,
I just discovered your site a couple of days ago when my dishwasher died. I have the model listed above, Kitchenaid KDS-20. It was in the house that my wife and I purchased 3 years ago, and has been working fine. Now, when you select a cycle, it lights up and sounds like it is running, but it is not filling with water. I checked the float, and it is not stuck. I understand that the water inlet may be clogged, but I have not pulled it out yet. My wife has hated the retro look since we moved in, and now she is leaning on me to buy a new one. I would like to repair it if I can, as I could use the money for other things. I have several questions if someone can help:
1) just how old is this thing?
2) Any ideas what might be wrong and how to fix? I have found general dishwasher info, but not model specific. diagrams would be great.
3) If I can determine the problem, where can I get the parts?
4) If I dont win the argument with my wife, anyone interested in this machine? I am in the Philly suburbs about 15 mins from the airport, and I'll sell it to someone who wants it for whatever is a fair price,or trade for a case of beer, or whatever. I understand that these are great machines, so I don't want to send it to the scrap yard. It's in good shape other than this water fill problem.
5) I have looked at some new models in case I need to replace it, but they all seem really flimsy compared to this tank I have. I'm thinking maybe the 300 series Bosch. Any recommendations on new machines? I dont want to spend more than about $400 - $600, but I dont want to buy something that I will have to replace in 5 years or less.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.
Chris

 

[mark_usa]

HI Chris

The experts on this forum will tell you what to check. If you determine that a component has gone bad, I probably have a used one since I am parting out a KDS-21. keep us informed & best regards Mark

 

[stevet]

One step at a time, Chris!

Hey, Chris,

I spoke to Mark who posted the picture above and that is a 21 series machine that he is parting out. There are many components from the 21 which will go into your 20 series machine except the pump and motor assembly as well as the timer and program buttons. They are different machines in how the pumps work. Yours runs in the same direction all the time and drains by opening a drain solenoid. The 21 began the series with reversing motors so it stops and turns in the opposite direction from when it pumps to drain the machine out.

As far as your machine not working, since it runs, you have half the battle won. Sounds like you hit it on the head as far as the water fill problem.

First make sure the water supply to it is not turned off. If it is on, then you need to determine if any water is getting into the machine.

You can do this by making sure the tub is empty, then with the door open, latch the handle down and press the soak cycle button which will initiate an immediate fill. You will need to hold the interlock switch down with a pencil and keep it pressed down while the handle is latched and a button pushed.

If you look on the left hand side, midway back between the upper and lower racks, you will see the round fill tube. Water should be coming out of it if you did the above things.
If it is trickling out then your fill valve screen is very badly clogged with debris and you will need to clean it.
If nothing comes out, then the valve may be faulty and will need to be replaced.
Bith if these services are relatively easy to perform so check it out first and let us know or email me and I will give you my telephone number and we can pursue it in more detail.

Your machine was built sometime between May of 1981 and April of 1984.
You really can't kill them and you will be hard pressed to find anything on the market these days at any price whatsoever that will have a snowball's chance in hell of lasting as long.
And you will probably get the same washing results from your old machine if not better than anything out there as well.

Hope this helps for now
Steve

 

[cschuller]

Mark and Steve,
Thanks for your help. The water line is open, so water should be flowing to the machine. I didn't remove the hose yet to see if it is actually getting pressure, but I can do that tomorrow. The location of the fill tube didnt jump out at me, so without pulling the machine out, I followed the rubber tube from underneath as far as I could up the side to figure out where the fill tube is. If I am looking at the right thing, it looks like there is one on either side near the back towards the top rack? Its about the size of a nickel with a slit in the middle. If thats where the water is supposed to come out, then it does not appear to be getting any water at all when running your test. If I am looking at the right thing, then maybe its a faulty valve? I will pull it out tomorrow and do a little more investigating, but the valve sounds like it may be the culprit.

 

[toploader55]

cschuller...

Hi.
Eddie here (toploader55) . You should be able to figure this out. stevet is a Hobart Man. I have rebuilt a 1957 KitchenAid with his help. What I found with a KDS-18 when I got it that was one (1) wire was off the fill valve. Check all your wiring and just make sure that one wire just didn't corroded off of got loose. It's one of the best machines I ever had and I'm running it right now. This is a great club and we're all willing to help. "Save the Great Ones ". Eddie
Just so you know what's happening here, Check out my last thread about my KitchenAid Regency.18117 Introducing LaRegina. Got this great machine from a woman that was redoing her kitchen. She told me it was not cleaning well. Plugged Line Strainer. Check it out and welcome to Auto Wash.org. Eddie

 

[toploader55]

here's my KDS-18

Runs like a Top

 

[stevet]

On the road to recovery!

Yes, Chris, the nickel sized opening with the slit in it is the fill opening. Do like Ed said and make sure no wires fell off the valve. while poking around down below, make sure you cut the power to the machine so you dont get yourself zapped. There ARE live connections under there.

Let us know what happens.
Steve

 

[spankomatic]

Kitchenaid or Bosch

Chris,
I had a Kitchenaid KDS-18 like the one shown above for many years and would not trade it for anything! It was my all time favorite dishwasher. I have had many since then... I currently have a Bosch in the house I'm in now. I sure do miss My Kitchenaid. Things to consider... The Kitchenaid is much easier to load. The rack design is much better than the Bosch. The Kitchenaid has heated warm air blown in to dry the dishes.Bosch does not. I always empty the Bosch using a dish towel to dry everything. The Kitchenaid uses less time since it uses a fair amount of water during the cycle. The Bosch takes 2 hours per load. Yes,2 hours. Hang on to that Kitchenaid if you can! They just don't make them like that anymore...

Jim

 

[stevet]

how about another 18?

Jim,should I start restoring the 18 I have sitting right next to me here in the garage? Do yo want the small or large upper washarm? Also has the vari-front panel kit so you get a choice of original colors too!

 

[spankomatic]

Stevet
Thanks for the offer! If I had a place for it I would take you up on your offer. Would love to have another KDS-18!

Jim

 

[cschuller]

Bad Valve?

Thanks everone...
I dropped the water inlet valve out of the machine. All of the wires appear to be fine and were connected tightly. I disassembled the valve and found the filter screen. There was some junk in there, but it didn't seem like enough to stop the flow of water completely. I pulled out the moving parts inside the valve, 2 rubber plunger type of things. They seem like they were sealed tight and the interior parts can move up and down freely to open the flow of water. The rest of the interior is also very clean.

I am going to follow the wires to their other ends to make sure those are connected properly.

Assuming the wires check out, I guess my next step is to test the electric part of the valve (solenoids?). How can I do this?

 

[stevet]

start with the dishwasher!

Test the wires going to the valve. There should be a white and blue or black wire going to it. When the machine calls for water, there should be 110-120 volts at those two wires.
If there is, then the problem is in the valve. If you reconnect them to the valve, you should feel and hear a click when the voltage is applied to the valve. Sometimes, the valve coil will energize but the piston inside the valve doesn't move or the diapraghm is just old and weak and won't let the water thru. I just had that happen on my Whirlpool spare unit. Valve worked fine on one wash and then next time I used it that day it would not fill. Changed out the valve and all was fine.
Your unit has a double coil solenoid so either one of them if bad can cause a no fill situation. They have been replaced by a single coil unit for all applications but there are many places including here that you can get the dual coil valves.
Let us know what happens.

 

[cschuller]

IT'S ALIVE!!!!!

Steve,
I reassembled everything and ran the test as you said. The valve was getting voltage and I could feel the solenoid triggering, so I decided to hook up the water and see what would happen. I used the first trick you told me to run it with the door open, and water started flowing. I grabbed the coffee pot and a few stragglers in the sink and ran a full cycle, and it worked perfectly.

Is it safe to consider the problem solved? I guess I will keep an eye on it for the next few times I run it, but we don't use it more than 2-3 times a week. Let me know what you think...

One other minor detail: the bottom panel on this unit has never stayed in place correctly. I wonder if a piece is missing or something, but there doesn't seem to be any way to secure the top edge of the panel. Any advice or a diagram?

 

[mark_usa]

Congratulations Chris

I knew that Steve would come to your rescue. May your dishwasher continue its long life.

regards Mark

 

[stevet]

Panel Problems?

The lower panels have always been a bane to users since they were made separate from each other. The really old machines prior to the 14 series were all one piece and were held in place by screws!

Anyway, they all go on the same way so any instructions will work.
Go to the instruction manual below and go to page 12 and you will see how the little flange on the panel MUST fit under the channel in each corner. If the flange is bent, which usually is the case, just bend it back with a pliers and then slide it back up under the channel and install the 2 screws that go on the bottom.
There will be some springiness to the panel which is normal.

Everytime my sister comes to visit, she manages to hit the panel with her foot and makes it come out of place. She tried to secure it with tape one day and was confounded with it. It took me less than 20 seconds to fix and she then stood there dumbfounded!

here is the link below..dont forget..page 12!

http://shared.whirlpoolcorp.com/assets/pdfs/literature/Installation%20Instructions%20-%204171083.pdf

 

[spankomatic]

It's a S A V E!

Another Kitchenaid dishwasher saved by one of our very own Automaticwasher.org members! It's better than 911!

Jim

 

[hawaiijohn]

KDS-20 Part Neded

I have an old KDS-20 that is still running well. I bought it used in 1994, and it came from a remodel in So Cal, it has been in Hawaii ever since. The Rinse Agent Cap, P/N 4171221 or C-240162 (I believe) no longer stays put. The threads on the blue plastic end are worn away. Does anyone have one I can purchase?
Mahalo,

John