Kitchenaid?

[thomasortega]

Guys, my husband and I are making plans to start remodeling our house in Tehachapi, CA.

There are lots of things to be done like install an air conditioner, fire sprinklers, an alarm system (for both fire and burglar), a bush fire external sprinkler system, remake the garden sprinklers, rewire the whole house, remodel two bathrooms, paint the house and also remake the kitchen because it's too small.

Of course safety first, so rewiring, alarm and sprinklers come first, but id like to plan everything in advance, only to avoid surprises.

I'm not a fan of open kitchens but the most plausible option is simply enlarge the kitchen and merge it with the huge living room.

Now i just have questions about the kitchen appliances.

I've already decided on Kitchenaid. No other brand will be accepted (or Darryl will sleep on the couch). I'm completely in love with those black stainess steel appliances with huge empire red bolts on the door handles. (All the small appliances will also be KA and Empire Red)

The questions are:

1) Sould i really get the black SS or be more classic and choose the regular SS?

Should i get a 1-oven range or a cooktop and a wall oven, or a cooktop and a double oven, or a combo (oven and microwave)? What are the pros and cons of each layout?

Please note that the kitchen will be heavily used (I cook a lot, love it, and i love cooking from scratch). And i want to have the house designed to entertain (i love to have guests and my husband's family is huge).

I understand some of you will tell me to go vintage. I agree up to certain point. Our laundry room will have space for many vintage washers but in the kitchen I prefer brand new modern ones. The more bells and whistles, the merrier. Its just a matter of preference as i don't like vintage appliances in the kitchen.

 

[yogitunes]

the new 'black' stainless is a unique look, just not offered by a lot of manufacturers yet.....but that's a matter of opinion or taste, which would look best with the décor....

and the sad part, they may discontinue this color in a short amount of time.....so if you ever need a replacement, now your stuck with one unit out of whack....

as someone who loves to cook as well.....I would go with a full free standing range, plus a double wall oven, warming drawer, and built in microwave....I myself would go with a micro hood as well.....go convection if possible too....some prefer a dual fuel setup, I prefer all gas

two dishwashers is a must on each side of the sink....

for more space in the fridge....go with two separate units, that resemble a side by side.....one all freezer/ice maker, and one all fridge, available in stainless

an island would help with separation of the two spaces, would add stools for a bar area, and add counter space....plus still keep that open concept....

keep us posted on your progress

 

[jamiel]

If you're that serious about the cooking, though, I'd recommend a Vent-a-Hood (i.e. real exhaust hood) rather than a micro-hood. Otherwise sounds great.

 

[jkbff]

Are you doing gas or electric?

In all honesty, when I do a kitchen for someone that loves to cook, I shy away from KitchenAid. If you want me to go into further detail about it, I could.

That being said, KitchenAid's black stainless over the range microwave and freestanding range won't be out for at least another month.

Depending on the fridge that you want to go with, KitchenAid has the KRFC704FBS counterdepth refrigerator with Whirlpool's new pantry inspired shelving. It is going to be the largest counter depth refrigerator in its class. You can look at pictures on access.whirlpool.com/wdl.

When I design kitchens for customers, I generally try to go the cooktop/rangetop route with double wall ovens. You get more pan storage if you have the drawers available under the cooktop. We have had a lot of bad luck with Whirlpool's oven/microwave combo. When one goes, the entire unit needs to be replaced. I'd recommend a countertop microwave in a cabinet spot somewhere. Or, many people have done an over the range mw on another spot in the kitchen where they would want extra lighting and have crock pots or something going where they could use the vent. Any extra way of getting heat out of the kitchen helps.

Ventahood will always be the best choice of hood. If you do black stainless through out the kitchen, I'd do a cabinet hood liner so the hood is concealed. Also, I would do a Miele panel-ready dishwasher with the 3d Cutlery Rack.

I also always go with InSinkerator's Evolution garbage disposal, and their hot water if the customer wants hot water.

I'd probably do a warming drawer under the ovens, especially if you are entertaining. I also would probably do two dishwashers, one on each side of the sink. Or if you have a butler's pantry, put a dishwasher there.

You can always message me if you'd like. I'm just giving my opinions off of what I've built for customers.

*edit*

The pros of having the cooktop/rangetop wall oven combo vs having a free-standing range is you won't have to bend to get into the oven. You can use the storage under the cooktop for pans etc, and keep your zones organized. You can keep baking pans/sheets with the ovens, pans and lids with the cooktops, etc. Also, you can put the ovens/cooktop at any comfortable height. I've found it is easier to keep an area with a cooktop/range top cleaner than what one would have with the freestanding range.

The idea behind the dual dishwashers is the capacity. You can do all of your dishes at once, regardless of what is going on.

Refrigeration, I am always a fan of built-in, if you do built-in refrigeration, you'll more than likely need something for overflow.

The other thing to think about with the kitchen is the lighting. I don't care how expensive of a kitchen a person builds, if the lighting is horrible, it is hard to be in that area. I am a person that has to have everything practically glowing.

 

[earthling177]

Thomas:

Please understand this is just my opinion, but since you asked for our opinions, I'm giving you mine.

In my humble opinion, a kitchen is not the place to go for anything but sheer performance. Not looks, not fashion, not anything. Form follows function, unlike nearly any other room of the house. If you want the best kitchen that will endure, it needs to be modular. Sooner or later you will need to replace one appliance here one appliance there, and 30 years later, you may have replaced a bunch of them.

If you want black stainless with empire red bolts, make sure that the kitchen *design* doesn't use only those colors, so that when you replace a module (fridge, dishwasher, stovetop, range, ovens, mixer etc) it doesn't look out of place or make the kitchen look instantly dated.

Because 5 to 10 years later and beyond, it's hard to find avocado, beige, almond, harvest gold etc appliances. And even if you are lucky and the appliances survive 20 plus years, most people do not want to live in a kitchen that they can tell exactly when it was installed. A functional, practical kitchen where one is productive and can have some fun will look almost timeless, with easy to clean surfaces and appliances that keep up with the workload in a smooth workflow. Because the only kitchens I've seen with rustic sandstone/flagstone backsplashes that still look good after a year are kitchens where *no one* ever cooks and everything is catered ready for the parties, they are kitchens to show off, not to actually cook in.

Also, if you are sensitive to how stainless steel varies from one manufacture to another, you may want to space the appliances so it's not obvious that they are not perfectly the same. White appliances are the safest for that, black and stainless might be acceptable.

But coming back to performance, you'll find out that in America very few brands are top performance, and the ones that *are* top performance for every appliance in their line up and priced accordingly are usually not liked by everyone and are also made in Germany (Miele comes to mind).

Me, if I cooked that much and entertained, I'd pick two ranges, so not only you have 2 ovens but you get more burners too. At least one of the ranges would be an induction range, and if I were you I'd skip the gas range altogether and get both induction. My impression of looking over the web, Whirlpool made induction appliances (including KitchenAid) tend to make an annoying buzz that people hate to the point of returning the range/cooktop, check http://ths.gardenweb.com appliance/kitchen forums for more info. Safer choices are GE-, Electrolux-, Bosch- and Miele-made units in their various brands (Bosch makes Thermador, I think).

I also agree that InSinkErator Evolution disposers are much quieter and better than most other brands currently.

As we discussed previously, KitchenAid stand mixers are great for people who only bake cookies and/or cakes. If you are into baking bread, particularly if you intend to make more than 3 loaves at a time, I'd get a Bosch Universal mixer and/or an Ankarsrum mixer (formerly known as the Electrolux Assistent mixer). The only thing the KitchenAid does better than the Euro-mixers is recipes that deal with frozen- or cold butter, which the Euro mixers tell you to let the butter warm up to room temperature (not something you want to do with some cookies, pie crusts or scones/biscuits), but the KitchenAid can barely deal with 9 cups of flour, while the Euro-mixers can prepare way more than that and use all-wheat flour, instead of half wheat and half white. I'm leaving a link to Pleasant Hill Grain, which I have had excellent luck shopping for mixers that are not available everywhere, you may also try Amazon, Kitchen.com etc.

For serious blenders, I'd look at Blendtec, or even better, Vitamix. Take a look at the various YouTube comparisons between the two, in particular, www.blenderdude.com has very good comparisons. He suggests budget models for both companies, but I much prefer the top-of-the-line machines with built-in cycles that make it much easier and more pleasant to use the machines. If you buy one of each Blentec and Vitamix, you'll find that you'll like each one for different tasks, and different people who visited me and have seen me use both each prefer different aspects of each brand.

Best luck with your new home and kitchen,
-- Paulo.

http://pleasanthillgrain.com/appliances/mixers

 

[tolivac]

For kitchens--best bet is choose the appliances and tools YOU like NOT what the supplier likes.YOU will be the one using the kitchen,not the supplier or contractor.I get tired of hearing when someone says something is "dated" again that device or tool may be suited to that person's needs.Note the seeking of old Sunbeam mixers.They do jobs that the KA ones and others can't-best to have BOTH.Same with blenders I own both VM and Blendtec.I replaced an ISE Evolution disposer with an older Maytag I bought from Volsboy-BETTER machine-FASTER!!!!The ISE took almost forever to shred waste.The older Maytag is just built better.An older NOS disposer is better than ANY newer one.

 

[ilovewindex]

IMHO (and that can be taken lightly or with lots of everything)

I wouldn't stick with just KA... No...If this where to be *my* entertainment/dream/everything kitchen I'd go as follows

First as far as refrigerator/freezers go..
I would get a True T23 Single Freezer... Around $2500... I could take bins and organize it the way I wanted and keep it at at a true temp... Also tis 23 cu ft of space...
I would also get a True T19 Freezer... 19 cu ft of space, and nsf certified to keep stuff frozen... Around $2000...
Both would be less than a subzero or any kind of built in model and god forbid something happened, you could justify a repair vs replacement.. Also there are no electronics involved or anything wonky, and therefore there are way less repair costs....
I will have this set up one day.. I would imagine ti would cost 2 or 3 times the energy cost, but to me it would be worth it $4500.00 here for me

Next for Cooktops:
I would go Miele here with its Combi Set Line...
1st I would have a CS1221I 12" Induction Burner @ $1200.00, then a regular 2 burner flat top gass with the casserole burner CS1122E @ $1000.00, and then add a 2 burner Gas cooktop @ $1000 CS 1012-1... The best of all the worlds of cooking in one shot.. Also then I would add a CS1312 Grill @ 1200.00 (also includes a griddle) and I would also have a CS1411F Fryer for $1200... I'd have to ask alot of questions because it supposedly can be a steamer too but the book makes no mention of it... If you need a wok burner or a teppan grill there is one avaialable too .. $5600.00 for me here

Next Wall Ovens...
I would have a GE Profile PT7550SFSS..Its not the TOL, but has most everything the TOL does with out the price.. Proofing, roasting, european convection in both ovens... GE still makes an awesome oven and I would only go that route here... $3000 or so total
Now If I HAD ROOM... I would add a Frigidaire Gas Oven FFGW2415QS with lower broiler... I hate broiling in regular ovens and there are a few things that come out better in gas... Its a small oven for a huge price, but well worth it..

Microwave oven/convection Oven
GE Profile PEB9159SJSS.... I have an odlerversion and love it... it looks like they took away some of the features and the flexability with the temperature for the baking part, but added a broil function.... I love love my countertop convection microwave and you;d have to kill me for it..Total is about $550.00

I would skip the warming drawer.. The ovens can be set low enough for this and if you have the 3rd oven, thats even better... I would actually get the 3rd gas oven over this because most warming drawers I've seen where used for just storage of crap

Dishwasher
I would have 2 dishwashers and possibly a 3rd if I could have a small bar area...
The bar area would be a single Fisher and Paykel DD24SCTX7..... $700... I'll address the bar area/butlers pantry in a moment

The dishwashers would be a hard, hard choice... So many options and choices and opinions...

I love my current GE and I feel that would be a good choice for a diswasher mostly used for plates and bowls and so forth (and overflow pans)... GDT655SSJSS is the model I would put in here... Around $700.00 for this one
I would opt for a Maytag for the main potwasher,... A TOL MDB8979SFZ, Also around $700.00

I would use a Venta Line Hood Option (priced depending how you option your combiset), A Waster King Disposer in a deep offset sink ($150) and an In sinkerator Insta hot water tap (I think $150).

As far as a wetbar/butlers pantry.. I would place the Convection Microwave here, the fisher and paykel dishdrawer for washing all of my glass ware... I wouldn't allow this to be used for anything else, unless it was like saucers or non soiled items.. Thos would need to go through the GE or Maytag.. I would look into a commercial grade compact Icemaker at around $1500.00 and a Beverage Air 24" Bar Cooler for wine, sodas and such at $1500.00...

The total would be around $21,000.00 for everything.. But i would feel like I had the best of all worlds and the one appliance I would change the most (the dishwashers) would be easiest to swap out...

I would have all corian counters with black stone sinks, and light cherry cabinets... And the cooktops would have to be contained in an island....

As far as small appliances go... Breville toaster oven/KA stand mixer and hand mixer/ Presto griddle/Zorijushi Breadmaker/Hamilton Beach Can opener that doesnt leave sharp edges/Nesco Bacuum sealer and dehydrator/Iced T Maker/Basic Coffee maker/Instant Hot water pot (if i didn't have the on tap thing), Blend Tech Blender, Ninja Crock pot, Ninja food chopper, Whatever food processor seemed decent, Krups Egg Cooker and anything else that struck me

Oh and a decent $350 or so bbq grill out side...

 

[ilovewindex]

I personally wouldn't touch anything Kitchenaid with a 10ft pole.. I've heard so many horror stories and bad things about them... From exploding glass, to dishwasher catching fire, to the oven touch pads always going out, and defrost and other electronic things in the fridges dying

But thats me... They maybe awesome for you

 

[vacerator]

Both GE and Whirlpool

both now offer the new "slate" color at least.
If you are or will be doing a lot of cooking, and an induction cook top or range is in your budget, you may want to consider it for high efficiency, and easy cleaning. I love my gas cook top but it is a chore to clean, and there is wasted heat from the flame.

 

[brucelucenta]

In my opinion, built in double ovens with a separate cook top would be best. That way you have plenty of oven space for holidays and big dinners, plus with two ovens you can have them at different temps. Do make sure to get the 30" double ovens, they have the most capacity. I agree that a regular vent a hood would be better too. You can build in a nice big microwave in a spot too. The micro vent a hoods are not as large inside as a separate microwave. As far as the type of SS appliances, that is a matter of personal taste as well as what brand of appliances you choose. Amazing how most of the posts and suggestions given to you have nothing to do with the question you asked, isn't it?

 

[mattl]

The more ovens the better.  I have 3 full sized and a micro convection and all get a work out during the holidays with lots of people around.  It's nice not to have to plan as to what goes in when at what temp.