Less IS More!

[partscounterman]

Some one on this website posted a near rant not too long ago about how HE detergents are really low efficiency. He pointed out it is silly to be using so very much detergent with so very little water. Anyway, this all made sense to me. I have been using regular (not HE) Liquid Tide with Bleach alternative in my Kenmore HE3t for some time anyway as it seems to suds less than some of the so called HE detergents.

So the point is after reading these comments I began using even LESS detergent than I ever had before and you know what? My whites have become even whiter than I can believe! My laundry looks fantastic! I have started thinking about detergent usage in terms of teaspoons and tablespoons, instead of capfulls and it all looks cleaner!

David

 

[maytagbear]

That's good, David

I am glad it's working for you!

However, my water is borderline hard, and if I were to use a lot less than the suggested amounts, it wouldn't work for me.

It's all trial and error, no?

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[frigilux]

One of the evening news magazine programs did a segment on this subject years ago---pre-HE detergents. Several people swore they got excellent results using only a tablespoon or two of powdered Tide, rather than the full dose recommended on the box. All of them used toploading machines.

With my very soft water, I use less than a full dose for lightly-soiled loads, but for stained loads, I always use at least the amount listed for a 'medium' load on non HE-detergents. In all honesty, I've never tried to use a very small amount on my load of whites. I should try it and see how it does. I always use chlorine bleach on those loads, which I'm sure gives my Tide CW a boost.

Glenn is doing some detergent experiments, too---see his thread. Fun!

 

[MikeS]

In The Phosphate Era

I recently re-read an October 1971 "Consumer Reports" test on non-phosphate detergents. Tide was used as the phosphate control for powders; Wisk as the only phosphate-liquid. What was interesting is that CR gave homeowners blank packages of all the products tested, but the difference was the directions given to those who used Tide. Some were directed to use the one and 1/4 cup amount recommended on the label. Others were told to use half that amount. And a third group had to use one-eighth the recommended amount.
The results, according to CR, was that those who used half the recommended amount of Tide rated their washes good to very good--about the same as those who used the amount Proctor & Gamble recommended on the package, and the same performance as the non-phosphates tested by CR. (Wisk was ranked fair to good--the same as a combination of Arm & Hammer Washing Soda and Ivory Snow in its old soap formula.) I suspect the tests were done in CR's New York era, where the water is relatively soft.
So maybe even in the no phosphate era, less detergent can be more. I've found I can use the minimum amount of Arm & Hammer liquid with bleach alternative, and my colors come out just fine. (I use a little more for my whites and find I can use chlorine bleach less often.)
Maybe it's time to do a few new tests of my own.

 

[tomturbomatic]

And, it could be the unrinsed detergent in the clothes still coming out and helping the smaller amounts of detergent you are using. Mostly it depends on water quality, water temperature, amount of soil in the laundry, the size of the load and the care given to proper sorting and pretreating. We never had to use the full amount of detergents, but then we did not have hard water in DeKalb County, GA. The only time we had cleaning trouble was with the GE V12, before mom learned that she had to use more detergent than she did in the 58 Lady because the GE used more water on the 10-12 lbs. setting.

 

[gadgetgary]

Less is BEST

When using powder, I use two of the 'Oxi-Clean' scoops for a full load and maybe 1/4 cup liquid detergent. Always follow the detergent with the cheap store-brand fabric softener and the extra rinse on my Maytag Neptune. Perfect results every time. And FYI....a tablespoon or two of 'Cascade' in the whites on Hot does wonders.

 

[launderess]

Consumer Reports and other such publications have been advocating the use of less than the recommended amount of laundry/dishwashing detergent for years. All one need do is find the correct amount of product suited to the wash load size/soil level and water conditions. Most people however simply use whatever recommended amount is listed on the box. This would work out well if product makers had consumer's best interests at heart, which sadly often is not the case. P&G and the rest want us to buy more product, more often.

In ever increasing efforts to bring about the above,detergent makers are forever changing box size/usage amounts and more importantly enclosed scoop sizes. Case in point; last week when down at the shops was comparing the 142oz sizes of Tide with Bleach and normal Tide with "oxy-treat". Though both products are the same weight, the "oxy-treat" states it will give 81 uses, versus the 31 for TWB. So what is the deal then? Is one more concentrated than the other? Do not think so as both sell for the same price, and wouldn't expect P&G to miss a chance to charge more.

Consider also liquid "HE" detergents. Anyone who has used them knows adding the full cap/dosage of Tide, Cheer, Purex, Wisk etc, will cause a massive suds overload.

Back when detergents first came on the scene, they were all "ultra" in that all were concentrated formulas. Well Mrs. Average American housewife was having none of it, as she long held that using vast amounts of soap was the only way her laundry was going to get clean. So detergent makers scrapped the "ultra" and begin filling larger boxes of product with the same detergent formula, but added lots of fillers, like cellouse (bascially saw dust). Lord and behold, Madame was happy and detergent sales took off. When the recycling/green boom began to make headway, detergents went back to "ultra", in the form of "less packaging, same uses as before", gimmick. All they really did was take out the fillers, which weren't necessary to begin with. Today one would be hard pressed to find a detergent labeled "ultra", because most all powdered detergents are, except for bottom shelf brands like Trend and Ajax, which still contain fillers.

L.

 

[helicaldrive]

What a coincidence, Gary!

Through trial and error over the years, I have arrived at a fill line in the liquid detergent cap -- much less than the manufacturer recommends, enough to get the clothes clean, not enough to prevent the rinse water from coming clear on the extra rinse. Just for fun, I poured water to that spot in the cap, and then I poured the water into a measuring cup. Bingo. 1/4 cup it was!

I had forgotten about the Cascade trick, but it surely does work. Don't know why, because it's really nothing more than powdered Clorox, but sometimes it will brighten some whites very effectively, especially if you soak them in it. I knew women who used to use it to clean and whiten those thin, plain, white sheer polyester curtains that were so popular in the 1970s. Strangely it didn't turn them yellow like LCB would have.

 

[toggleswitch]

See now, and I thought it was the phosphates (holds the muck in suspension better/longer), and the intense alkalinity (degreasing ability) that makes Cascade [and the like] fabulous for whites.

 

[helicaldrive]

Your theory

makes a lot of sense!

 

[frigilux]

Does Mexican Ariel have phosphates? I just received a bag of it from MexGrocer.com and the only thing printed in English on the bag is NOT FOR SALE IN AMERICA.

It did a great job on a BobLoad® of whites. It didn't come with a scoop, so I used the scoop from my box of Tide CW. Used a 'medium load' dose of the Ariel. It didn't oversuds, but the suds were very tenacious. I used an extra rinse, which is probably only the third or fourth time I've ever done that. Clothes look great, though (washed in 145-degree hot water with a dose of Clorox Ultimate Care liquid chlorine bleach). Love the sticky-sweet smell, too. I can see where it overwhelms some people, but I like a detergent with a strong personality, LOL.

 

[maytagbear]

Modern Cascade

powder has no chlorine in it. Just enzymes. And phosphate. Goes for the regular, as well as the Complete.

The only current Cascade formula with chlorine in it is the NON Complete gel,-"Clear Rinse." And I don't find it to be terrific. I would never go back to a chlorine based dishwasher detergent. Never.

As for laundry detergent, I do use less than the package amounts, but not a lot less.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[dalangdon]

At a time when I was very poor, I have made one of those buckets of Sears detergent that my Mom bought me last forever by halving the suggested amount, and nothing seemed the worse for it.

Nowadays, John prefers to do the laundry, and he buys those tanks of liquid Tide from Costco and uses it with our Frigidaire front loader. He's quite picky about the results, and he seems happy with it. I wash sheets and towels on Saturday morning (my contribution to the laundry while he's at work ;-) and I just use a smidge, and everything comes out very nice.

 

[bajaespuma]

Hallelujah, brothers and sisters!

I'm so glad somebody finally got the message. I will post the response I got from Redox brands about HE detergents as soon as I can get my scanner to work again. But the point is, again, HE detergents are a calculated scam. What's really interesting is that if you look at Consumer Report's articles on HE detergents, they appear to be in cohoots with the P & G camp--they start out in the early years of HE reporting that they're nothing more than low sudsing formulas like Dash and Salvo. Then they report that the HE formulas are only necessary when consumers use the high temperature cycles on their FL machines. Then they so much as agree that HE detergents are necessary when using FL machines--what a skull f__k! Looks like even CU sold out.

Cascade has always been what chefs recommend to students for cleaning their whites, but I haven't received a definitive answer yet as to whether they add inert abrasive components, damaging to clothing, to the formulas. It would make sense, given what a dishwasher detergent is supposed to do in a dishwashing machine.

You might also look out for industrial formula All which creates no suds. As I understand it, you can use any soap/detergent in a Front Loader as long as you measure carefully and err on the less rather than more, side. Low- or No- sudsing is best when boosting the water temperature because as they heat up, detergents break down and tend to foam. I use Tide with Bleach powder occasionally and I notice it does foam more at the higher temperatures, but like you David, I now dole it out by the tablespoon, not by even 1/4 cups. I spoke to a washer repairman recently who said that he used to tell housewives to cut the recommended amount of detergent in half FOR TOP LOADERS. He said he had more service calls because of problems related to suds and oversudsing than anything else. THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR IN DETERGENT DOSAGE IS THE HARDNESS OF YOUR WATER. And if your water is truly hard, it's better to address that with a water softening system, or by added chemical water softeners rather than more detergents.

Remember, as you increase the amount of Tide per load you increase Proctor and Gamble profits. They want you to use more and, in the case of High Efficiency MACHINES, to prevent revenue losses from a box of Tide lasting 6 weeks instead of 2 they have cleverly introduced HE detergents which are nothing more than diluted low-sudsing formulas to the unsuspecting market. I have a friend who, despite all of my information, still insists on paying top dollar for HE detergents because of the stickers/warnings that came with her machine.

I recently vacationed in Canada and, thanks to another AW member, sent a bunch of phosphate-formula Calgon home with me. I'll let you all know how it works in the Front Loader. I noticed that they no longer recommend it for use in the final rinse cycle. I wonder why.

 

[tomturbomatic]

What is this about "inert abrasive components" in powder dishwasher detergents? The powders are supposed to dissolve completely. They don't clean by bombarding dishes with gritty granules. Detergent dispensing systems on commercial dishwashers depend on the detergent being dissolved in water and then that very concentrated solution is injected into the wash tank until the metering electrodes signal that the wash solution has the proper amount of detergent and turns the dispenser off. Undissolved detergent particles in a home dishwasher can mean that you are using old detergent or water that is not hot enough.

Calgonite was one of the first automatic dishwasher "detergents" although not one had surfactants because non-foaming surfactants did not exist in the 30s and 40s, so it consisted mainly of alkaline water conditioners. Those of you with packages of old filter cloths for vacuum coffee makers might see the instructions that the cloth should be boiled in Calgonite every week or so. Later, the Calgonite formula had an oxygen bleach and many washer manuals suggested soaking yellowed nylon in a solution of Calgonite and very hot water. Chlorine bleach would yellow nylon, but Calgonite did not have a chlorine bleach. Old dishwasher detergents (thru early 60s) did not have chlorine in the formula. It took a lot of research to find a stable powder form of chlorine to add to the dry detergents. That was why Melamine coffee cups became so stained over time. A company that daddy worked for was the first to find a way to add a powder form of chlorine to dw detergent and they were so worried about moisture getting into the detergent and destablizing the chlorine that it was first packaged in one pound steel cans. It was made for commercial use, but friends with whom we shared the stuff said it cleaned like nothing else.

Does anyone remember ACTION dry chlorine bleach, a sort of lavender powder encased in a plastic pouch that would dissolve in the wash water? It was packaged like that so that moisture would not get into the bleach before it was used.

 

[tlee618]

Yes Tom I remember Action bleach packets well. They really did get things white. Seems like they said to use two packets but always found that one did the job. Terry

 

[tomturbomatic]

Lawrence, I guess you do not drink coffee or tea out of anything plastic. The enzyme dw detergents do nothing to the stains that build up on plastic. I use the enzyme stuff in the first wash and the chlorinated stuff in the second wash to keep the tea stains from building up in the white mouthpiece of my Rubbermaid sports bottles that I use for tea. When you are an adult, it's a sports bottle. If you are a child, it's a sippy bottle. The regular use of the chlorinated gel stuff also removes the tomato and other food stains from plastic storage containers.

 

[maytagbear]

Tom,

You're right. I don't use plastic for beverages anymore.

I have a fairly wicked Celestial Seasonings habit, and two cups of decaf a week.

As for plastic, I just use the Cascade Plastic Booster when they get too noticable.

Lawrence/Maytagbear