Let's look at an EXCELLENT Craigslist ad for a change!

Automatic Washer - The world's coolest Washing Machines, Dryers and Dishwashers

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kenmoreguy64

kenmoreguy64

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Charlotte, NC
I hope I put this in the proper forum!

I really liked seeing this ad in Charlotte's Craigslist today. I was thinking of posting something very similar, as I hate what the mandatory scrapping of so many haul-offs is doing to the used appliance business and the waste of parts and machines that it is causing.

The big-box stores and manufacturers want to say that it is "green" that they force the machines to be recycled, but it is not like everything in the past was relegated to rot outside. I mean, the Aberdeen farm was unusual enough that it still has notoriety here. What was really going on is some machines were left outside, and there probably still will be, but others were taken into small shops, including mine at times, repaired and/or rebuilt, and re-sold for further use. That's what I consider green.

In turn, the parts used in these services were good for parts manufacturers and they provided jobs to people making the parts. The prices of the used machines were good for consumers who could not or chose not to pay for new machines.

I can't see any reason to insist that haul-offs be destroyed - its just plain wrong and I will think twice about doing future business with companies that insist on maintaining this policy.

Something like this ad should be placed in all Craigslist cities!

Gordon

kenmoreguy64++7-23-2012-17-21-23.jpg
 
I wonder how many they save. There is a market for the BD's, the 08 series Maytag's, etc. But it's a very small market. Not many people want them, unless they are a landlord, looking for a cheap washer/dryer.

 

It might be a source for BD's, though Gordon, might be worth checking out.
 
What an excellent ad. I agree, Gordon. I wish this was everywhere. Not only have we given our jobs to foreign countries, but we send them our raw materials and get crap products back. What kind of green is that! I hate big corporate and our government.

If everybody started doing this big corporate might set up an take notice. They need to clean up their act. It's time for corporate law to be changed.

This is starting to sound like "Dirty Laundry" material. Better drop it.
 
i think that this would be useful because i think that most appliance pre 1990 to 1950 deserve a second life and would help alot of familys in needs like for exemple a set like this one that would be useful to family that for exemple lost everything in a fire but do not have the money for new applioance it would be another way to recycle older appliance that could be repaired by proffesinal tech and then sent to charety place or donated to familys in need or resold as refurbish second hand sets that still have life in them unless the parts are no longer avalable.

pierreandreply4++7-23-2012-22-09-45.jpg
 
I once saw a video of some guy n youtube smashing up an early 1990's vintage GE Filter Flo machine, only because the motor went on it.

For less than a hundred dollars, that machine could have been put back into service again, where someone else could have used it.

When I sold my GE set, I was glad to know that they were going to be used in a rental property where someone could get some good use out of them. (Hopefully, not washing bricks in them or something stupid like that.)

I can only imagine how many working, decent top loaders are being scrapped and trashed because someone thought it would be a good idea to replace it with an HE Front loader because they were remodelling or renovating.

What irks me are the people who put in ad into Craigslist or Kijiji saying that they want to get a "Washer and/or Dryer" for free and that they don't have a truck or a car, so they want free delivery as well. Please.

I agree, this is bordering on "Dirty Laundry", so I'll leave it here.
 
I like the idea too. How many good appliances end in scrap yards because their owners just want to change them? Unfortunately, I think many have been conditioned to do so by campaigns about energy savings or just to follow trends. Some remodel their home or buy a new one and their old appliances need to go out because they don't fit too well in the new place.  Stores take them back and recycle them to avoid loosing clients who might be satisfied by these low cost appliances instead of new ones bought on credit. 

 

The same could be said about cars. I saw low mileage cars in very good condition sent to scrap yards (and sitting in scrap yards) as their owners traded them for new ones and government pays with our money to get rid of them. Then, they aren't allowed to be back on the road (but the nicest ones are sometimes shipped overseas where some people will continue using them). And at the same time, those who can't afford buying a new car often ride in unsafe, high mileage, collision damaged cars and they need to pay to get theirs fixed with the money they don't have to pass e-tests and sometimes just to keep them running... Often, the poor scrap yard employees who see them sent to the crusher wish they could just switch these cars with theirs that are in much worse shape but they can't... It seems our government would rather see them leasing an inexpensive Korean car than driving a good used car that they could fix themselves for much less with money spent locally.
 
Waste!

I think it is totally wrong that people are doing this.

If you fix up a 30+ year old Maytag, you can expect many more years of dependable service from this washer, compared to buying a new machine.

Honestly, I don't see it is so "Green" to have appliances go to the crusher, be melted down, separated and so forth, then shipped to chinkyland so they can process the metals, sell the back to us or make them into junky pieces of sh*t that we buy thinking "Wow, what a good looking washer. I'll never buy anything but Haier/LG again!"
Then, one week out of the cheap 2 year warranty, the computer dies. You fix it, the pump dies, its fixed, it the machine catches fire, but you fix it. Then it breaks so badly and you can't be f'ed fixing it, so you buy another. This is the vicious cycle we have entered today, people.

I don't see why people are so blind to the fact! "Oooooo, lets get the new washer to get the Energy Star rebate!!!"
Honestly, are people so stupid they can't see that having a junky washer that fails every 5 years or so is NOT good for the environment?

In my opinion, the industry should scale down its production, make things more expensive, but make it to LAST a lifetime. Obviously, there are people who like to stay current, so they'd sell their washer every 3 or so years when newer and "better" stuff comes out. That washer would probably go to middle income families, then, maybe something on the machine fails after around another 5 years. The unfortunates who cannot afford a new(ish) washer pick it up and say "Wow, the only thing wrong with this is a motor." Thus, the machine continues to serve for years and years after that, being passed through generations.

People are really doubtful when you say that buying new stuff all the time is better than building stuff to last. I wonder, is it better for the environment to junk stuff frequently, or build it to last.

POS stuff:
• You don't need such a rugged and heavyweight design
• It is easier to make money from flawed machines and devoted customers
• "The latest" fashions can be implemented quickly
• You need more shipping space and more frequent shipments of equipment (negative!)
• Repairmen are kept busy

Quality Stuff:
• Can be repaired cheaply (saves jobs)
• Not so much shipping space is wasted on large amounts of spare parts or replacement machines (saves oil)
• Less material is "wasted." How many of the modern machines going to landfill are recycled? All the plastic we used USES our valuable oil reserves, which to date, don't have any sign of being replaced until the very end
• More room for "real garbage" at landfill sites
• Less pollution (less repair trucks driving around, less container ships, less plastic being produced)

There's a reason why Delta Airlines is running their McDonnell Douglas DC-9's into the ground. They were built to withstand frequent cycling back in the 60s. Except, they over designed the airplane, and thus many of them are still only around 50-75% thru their working lives.
Compare that to an Airbus A320. They can only withstand around 50% (or less) the amount of cycles (pressurise/depressurise) that the DC-9 can.
I believe the DC-9 has a maximum of around 90,000-110,000 cycles on the airframe before it should be retired, but modifications to the pressurisation bulkhead can apparently bring this up to around 150,000 (Boeing has tested the air-frame to around 200,000 cycles)
The Airbus A320 on the other hand will run to around 45,000 cycles. It is usually less, however.

Have I changed anyone's opinions?
 
Fact is, folks, YOU CAN'T SAVE THEM ALL! I have a backroom full of appliances, 15+ years old. Any older than that, and most people don't want them.  They aren't as energy efficient as a 5 YO one. And parts availability get's iffy. And there are only so many landlords out there.

 The other thing is, I'm not going to put $75.00 in parts, + an hour of my time, to fix a ,say refrigerator,  that I might sell for $100.00.

 Plus, how many people around here keep talking about wanting vintage appliances, but when one shows up 200 miles and 3 hours away, they say "if it were only closer"..... They want a fully operational machine delivered to their basement. For next to nothing.
 
Kenny, we aren't talking about saving them all..

And even if we were, we can't save any if we don't try...

The point of the thread for me however was to point out the fact that we have an industry deliberately trying (and succeeding) to weed out MANY appliances from the previously normal regeneration process, which is in turn limiting the availability of used and lower price equipment and parts to people who need them.

In the past, as many of us well know, a haul-off old appliance which fit the scheme you mention above would have found its way to the crusher anyway --- just as you said, a machine of that nature was not typically worth the time of a refurbisher. It could almost be described as "natural selection" for the appliance industry.

BUT, the haul offs that are going to the shredders from Home Depot, Lowes, Sears, etc. are not just 30 year old Maytags, far from it. There are 2000-era front loaders in there, there are MANY white panel late model WP and KM DD washers from the 90s and 2000s, and other equipment which seems to be in short supply and easy to re-sell or would be useful as a parts donor. I am NOT sayig that some of this stuff doesn't belong in the dump - some of it surely does. But, there have always been prematurely retired appliances that find their way back into circulation once they become a haul-off, and refurbishers were looking for these all the time --- still are. That's where the waste is.

With all that said, it's not even the waste of machines that is my issue, because they are getting recycled, but its the apparent mentality of the retailers that bothers me. They want our money as consumers, and they court us to shop in their stores by how they can help us, but at the same time they seek to harm the same collective group of consumers by preventing useful materials and machines from being re-used as they would have naturally in the past. This is done in a front of goodwill for the planet, but I think it up for debate if they are doing good or harm overall, and what the retailer's intentions truly are.

The same situation would occur if the car manufacturers forced most dealers to crush every trade in they got. The effect would cripple the used car industry. We know that some trade ins are done, used up, and belong off the road. But many don't. If the appliance haul-back situation is even partly similar to the used car scenario, then we have waste going on, which isn't green....

Gordon[this post was last edited: 7/24/2012-09:14]
 
I totally agree, Gordon! It is true that not all machines can (or even should) be saved or preserved... but it is so important that people are aware of it as an option to the inherent wasteful and environmentally unfriendly scrapping (although of course scrapping for recycling is better than scrapping to a land fill). Not only may newer machines be repairable, but appliances also represent a rich history... a history of technological innovation, of design and style from functional to deco to chrome laden to simple and clean, of the optimism of marketing and the development of new features, some of which were temporary fads, some became the norm. They are a part of our history and we collectors are a relatively limited few that preserve that history (notably, as was mentioned in another post, people kind of laugh about my appliance collecting... but when they see the collection, they are always fascinated with them and leave with a better appreciation!). When a machine is scrapped, it is gone forever. Again, not every machine can be saved, and not all are rare. But this craigslist post reminds people that may likely have been otherwise unaware, that there is an alternative to scrapping, whether to repair a machine for continued use or to preserve and collect![this post was last edited: 7/24/2012-15:08]
 
Hey Bud,

I wouldn't defend the person who made that smashing video, but was the <$100 for the motor including the repairman's fee, parts, and all? Or is that because some here are repairers and have access to the parts, and some of us know these repairers?

I ask because we had our riding mower taken to the shop last fall. I was told that it would, at very least, need a new engine at +/-$500. Drive pulleys, etc., should also be replaced. The choice was pay the $25 p/u fee or he would take some parts off it and be able to use them, and send the rest to the scrapper. We had used these folks before and they've been up front and reasonable ($53 to overhaul our generator two days before the big storm hit last year!).

Lo and behold I was driving to work past this place this spring and I saw what I thought to be our mower out front with a price tag on it! I checked under the hood and saw the repairs I had made to the frame that holds the hood as well as the wiring I replaced for the headlights (who cuts their lawn at night, anyway?). When I went in and asked about it, I was told that they did replace some of the other parts but he had a slightly smaller engine from another machine that he was able to put on this one. That saved him $350 in parts and a couple hours labor. I was not happy. They offered to take the price down from $700 to $630 which would cover the parts only. Do the math- that was the full price of the parts, including the 'free' engine that they were charging full boat for. I'm not saying we should have gotten the engine for free, but there could have been some consideration made there.

I'll take the older appliances, myself. They've proven much more reliable and, as was already said, easier to repair!

Chuck
 
The retailers take the path of least resistance.

 

 If  a large business approaches Lowes, and says "I'll put a trailer out back for your trade ins, they will be unseen and out of the way, we'll empty the trailer once a week, you have to do nothing but put the trades in the trailer", why wouldn't Lowes take that option, over leaving them out back, where they become unsightly, where people strip off  the aluminum, and copper, and leave the rest, where someone might get hurt trying to load a washer in the back of a SUV, and sues Lowes, etc.

 

 I know several of the Lowes, Sears, etc, around here have been burned by people thinking selling used appliances is a walk in the park. You plug it in, it works, you sell it. It don't work that way. A good Lowes store can generate 20-25 or more trades a week. Mr Little Guy can't keep up with that many, so he starts picking the best, and leaving the rest. That's less of a problem these days, with scrap prices being up.

 

 I know of at least one place, in Indianapolis, who has the contract to pick up trade  ins at Lowes, BestBuy, etc. They refurbish what is worth refurbishing,  but they will also sell you what they get in, before they go through it. So not all the used ones go to the scrapyard.

 

Also, BestBuy, Lowes, etc, will make more money selling you a new washer off the floor, VS selling you a 10YO washer out back, in unknown condition.  How much should they charge for say, a 2003 model washer, in unknown condition? It might need a minor lid switch, it might need a major transmission repair. No way to know, until you buy it.
 
Kenny,

That's not exactly how it was or is in Charlotte. Maybe things are different here, hence the reason that person/company put the ad on Craigslist, but the situation was different in the 1990s and is equally different today.

When I was originally taking in BDs for refurb, we had the following primary sellers of new appliances in Charlotte: Sears, Queen City Appliance and TV, Plaza Appliance, Circuit City, and to a lesser degree, Lowes. With the exception of Sears, all the major sellers had independent haulers come by their loading docks daily, usually at the end of the day, who would haul off EVERYTHING brought in that day from the deliveries. The haulers could do what they wanted with it all once they were off store property - sell piece by piece to the mom and pop shops, take it all to the landfill or recycling center, or drop the entire load at one of the larger used appliance places, or any combination thereof. None of those new retailers would sell you one piece off the dock, nor would they have private individuals back there picking through stuff. There were the same liability issues then as today. Until I got involved with my buddy, Sears until 1990 was putting everything they got into a compactor. Our deal with Sears was similar to the others - my buddy had to haul off everthing, every day, and he could do what he wanted to with it.

Today, Lowes dictates that EVERY piece hauled back by the contract delivery company is accounted for, is present and accounted for at dock return, and is loaded in the scrap trailer. All the scrap trailers around here seem to be destined for West Virginia. If a piece cannot be accounted for, delivery person's jobs could be on the line. Store employees are not allowed to even consider taking home a nice piece. It seems almost as important as the connection of an airline passenger being on the plane with his checked luggage (which is a huge deal, for those who don't know). This might be part of the deal with the scrap hauler, but if a machine escapes the clutches of that system, its a big deal. I understand from a manager friend at Home Depot that this system is even occasionally audited! This is the situation which spawned the ad I posted. I think the only machines now available to used appliance shops here are ones they source themselves in whatever manner, or machines that have come from the smaller, non big-box stores. Their volume unfortunately is dwindling.

I believe Home Depot and Sears have much the same haul-back provisions, and in some cases they use the same delivery agents (GE Appliance delivery, which is a division of General Electric).

I don't think Plaza and Queen City have much of a measurable market share these days here. It is mostly Sears, Lowes, Home Depot, and HH Gregg. This may be why Charlotte's used market is more constrained than that in your area Kenny?
 
It's possibly why, we have Lowes, Sears(to a lesser degree) BestBuy, HHGregg, Menards as the big appliance retailers. I know Menards places their trade ins in their outside sales lot, where they can be purchased. The rest either have a trailer, or they are kept inside. HHGregg uses the business from Indy, I'm not sure who Lowes is using, the trailer says NOVA services.

 I would like to be able to buy trades from Lowes, Sears, etc. But at least around here, they won't deal with individuals, for the above mentioned reasons.

 Right now I have 2 smaller retailers I get my trades from. One is over an hour away. In both cases, these Mom and Pop retailers sell trade ins, too. They sell me what they can't use. The one place hates GE, so I get everything that's made by the General. I also get the older pieces they can't use. I've been dealing with them for over 20 years now, have a good relationship established.  But I'm sure they are approached all the time by people wanting their trade ins. Very competetive these days!
 
Westinghouse L-5

I couldnt believe it,last week on Craigs list was a nice looking L-5 for 100.00.I went to look at it in a basement.I thought it would be a mess.What a surprise.Clean and not rusty.I bought it and the seller and I carried it up 2flights of stairs.Heavy is not the word loaded it in the back of my Cherokee.Took it home inside clean even the wiring and valves were still shiny.Tub snubbers and springs still shiny black.Runs all I need is a tub boot.It really cleaned up well someone had spilled something down the front.Cleaned it off and waxed it.Maroon knob like new.Glass also did not have any calciem on it.Im still surprised,so yes sometimes you can save appliances. Bobby
 
Hey Perc...

The $100 or less implies that you can find a used or refurb motor and put it in yourself, or get a spare from a junker.

My father still uses a motor from a 1960's era GE as a polisher on his bench. :)
 

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