Let's talk HOT WATER!!

[luxflairguy]

I know about a year ago, there was a thread about hot water heaters. I now need to replace my best friends gas water heater in Palm Desert over Thanksgiving. I can remember the thread saying that the Whirpool gas models from Lowe's weren't any good. What do people have and how easy is it to DUI it? I've done lots of electric heaters, but never a gas one. I also have in my mind that in CA you can't DUI a gas heater. Correct?
All comments are appreciated!!
Greg Bushman
LuxFlairguy

 

[whirlcool]

I think the installation is the same, just make sure you tighten the gas connectors and check them with soapy water to make sure you don't have a leak.
On some models you may have to adjust the flame to get rid of the orange/yellow and try to get as much blue as possible.

 

[panthera]

Whirlpool gas water heaters are ok

The problem is not the water heater itself, rather a far too sensitive thermocouple...which is not self-resetting. If you google this, you will find many web-links to the problem. Also clear suggestions on how to prevent it and, when it happens, how to fix it yourself for under $20...but a good 40 minutes work.

Yes, in California the requirements are stiff. And sensible, in the only two years I lived in San Francisco, we had several minor earthquakes and one rather nasty one...you don't want these things coming loose and spilling really hot water all over the place while shooting flames out.

After living with the on-demand, never ending hot water of modern gas water heaters here in Europe never want to go back to the old storage and slow, slower, slowest recovery system. If you can, take a look at the new technology - regardless of electric or gas. The old horror stories of hard to regulate, always too cold or way too hot no longer apply.

The UK, otherwise not exactly a world leader in plumbing technology (to put it mildly) also has some brilliantly simple and very well thought out hot water systems, some of which are beginning to show up in the US.

In short, forget what you have heard in the past, get out there and see all the groovy stuff available today.

Oh, and consider point-heating. Example. My folks warm water for bathing must not be over 120°F maximum. This is hot enough for showers and tub, absolutely not for the dishwasher and the FL washer (a not-dumbed down Frigemorelux). I installed a four gallon water heater running at 145°F right by the washer/dishwasher line (run under six feet) and fed it from the 120°F warm water line. That water arrives cool to cold, but long before the time the internal four gallons are nearly exhausted, the water is up to 120°F. So the rise time is not completely from cold to hot.

Personally, I prefer regenerative energy sources or solar/wind. Any chance you can go that direction? Having only lived in San Francisco, I am not convinced of it, but am told the sun shines a lot in California...

 

[whirlcool]

And remember the expansion valve! Test it to make sure it works. MythBusters, the television show did a test to see how high a water tank would go if the safeties failed and it exploded. One test showed it could attain an altitude of 500' feet or so! And then they tested it to see if it could come flying out of a basement up thru two stories of a building and still get that high. The answer? Yes it could!
From what I understand, this was quite common with early water heaters in the 1930's and 1940's.
Not only will the blast off take out your house (blow the sides off of it!) but then where is the tank going to land when it comes back down?

Always keeping my eyes open for such things.

 

[rolls_rapide]

Now we know why steam engines (and locomotives) were so powerful!

 

[rp2813]

Whirlpool

Greg, that thread that about Whirlpool heaters had me worried too, as I had just purchased one this last February and then started reading about all of the problems. I did some research and found that Whirlpool (I believe the true manufacturer is American Water Heater or something like that located in TN) fixed the problem and that my heater wasn't impacted, and you would be safe buying a Whirlpool now. So far I haven't had any problems. My only complaint is that there is a real roar to the burner compared to the fairly quiet BOL Kenmore that I had installed at my mom's place about a year ago, but since it's in my garage it's not too annoying. Might be something to consider depending on where your friend's heater will be placed. I also advise you to open the carton and inspect a Whirlpool if you decide on that make. The first one I brought home was so banged up on all sides and the top (even though the carton was not) that it makes me wonder if the manufacturer has any quality control. And check all fittings on the valve. My pilot kept going out until I realized the fitting was loose and I have to assume my unit left the factory that way.

I got a good deal on a 40 gallon Whirlpool with 2" thick insulation at Lowe's. I don't even need to wrap it with an unsightly blanket and it is almost at the lowest end of the energy use range for a 40 gallon.

I would consider a tankless if money is no object. That's really the way to go, but they are still way too expensive for me to have considered one since recovering the extra cost through energy savings would take many years. And lord knows there are enough sunny days in Palm Desert to consider solar, but again, it's an expensive alternative.

Ralph

 

[andrewinorlando]

I have a Rheem 40 gallon gas water heater. 10 years old now. Has been perfect in every way...have never run out of hot water, recovers very fast (compared to an electric tank), no leaks, no service issues, nothing. And dirt cheap to run - $28/mo for gas stove, water heater and dryer.

 

[goatfarmer]

We replaced our water heater about 5 years ago. We looked at Lowes, and Menards. Lowes had a Maytag branded water heater, Menards had a Richmond. They were close on price and had similar features. What made the difference? The Maytag was built by State Industries, in Tennessee. The Richmond came from Mexico!
Needless to say, we have the Maytag residing in the basement. No problems after 5 years.

kennyGF

 

[petek]

Around here it commonplace these days for people to rent their water heater direct from the gas utility company. We pay something like $5 per month on the gas bill for ours. 24/7 service and or replacement is included. No worries, no hassles.

 

[petek]

Here it is... 150 litres, 40 gal. 36,000 BTU. Recovery rate says 30.5 US gal/hr at 100 degs
I don't know if that's good or bad. We don't use alot of hot water and I keep it set to the point that you can't scald yourself. Course that means the DW has to heat up the water sometimes. This ones made in Canada btw..I'm surprised there's something left being made here LOL

 

[polkanut]

We have an 8yr old natural gas fired Ruud 40 gal. w/ power-vent, as we don't have a chimney. The only time I ran out of hot water was when I had the washer & dishwasher going, and was also taking a shower. We are very satisfied.

 

[dj-gabriele]

I don't have a heater, hot water comes directly from the waterducts, the averange temperature is 45°C (113°F) in winter and 50°C (122°F) in summer, I find it enough for my needs, the positive side is that hot water never ends, the bottom one is that it's quite an expensive service...
At my parent's we have a Baxi gas condensing boiler that provides both space heating and hot water, the power is 20,5KWh (70.000 btu) and it has a 60 litres hot water tank and can produce 15 litres of hot water per minute (starting from 15°C), so hot water actually never ends, the only drawback is that if heating is on too an auto limiter is engaged and if the tank runs out the boiler doesn't output more than 12 litres per minute to keep space heating going. Hopefully it's connected after the solar collectors so even in gennuary water is never under 30°C (86°F) so the auto-limiter never gets engaged.

 

[bpetersxx]

water heaters and safety

We have this one installed and works great

But had to install a new gas valve as it would either heat the water too cold or too hot

The valve would pop off and vent hot water

Now it works great again as I have vintage DW that need 150 degree water

 

[bpetersxx]

This is the bad valve they took off

The new one has a quick connector on it

I think they had problems with it the company had to replace
these on the first generation WH

 

[polkanut]

My parents had an A.O. Smith water heater in their house when they bought it in 1967. It lasted until approx. 1985. That thing finally sprang a leak, but it could keep up with the demands a family of 5 put on it.

 

[sudsmaster]

My 50 gallon Wards 700 gas water heater came with the house, and was installed in 1977. Still going strong 30 years later. Around 2002 I tested the pressure release valve and it wouldn't shut off. Went to drain the tank to replace the valve, and the bottom drain wouldn't shut off either. So I wound up replacing both, along with the anode rod. The pressure relief valve had lime scale interfering with its closure. The bottom valve had some white plastic, perhaps from the dip tube, interfering with the closing. The anode rod was 2/3 gone, so I replaced it just about in time. I know, I should replace the dip tube as well. In fact I have one I got a few years ago, but haven't gotten around to it. Never seen any white plastic in the sediment screens on any of the faucets, so I think it was just a stray piece.

It's not the most efficient water heater, but it has two insulation blankets - one the previous owner put on (thin and compressed by the water heater seismic bracing). I added another layer of 1" foil backed fiberglass blanket left over from insulating the force air furnace distribution duct chamber. The outside of the insulation is rarely warm to the touch, a good sign that it's working.

 

[rp2813]

Wards Heaters

Rich, interesting about your Wards heater. My parents installed a Wards 40-gallon gas model in 1973. About a year ago its tank developed a leak after 33 years of ZERO maintenance. The pipes, like the house, are 80 years old and produce lots of sediment in aerators and the like. I know there had to be inches of sediment on the bottom of that tank and yet the thing just kept on going. It was also a very attractive unit, with a snap-on cover over the valve assembly, as if it were designed to be placed where it would not be hidden from view. I don't see any heaters on the market today that address this aesthetic issue.

I have to say that while just about everything else my parents ever purchased at MW was total junk, especially their '68 shredder/washer, that water heater exceeded its life expectancy by many, many years. With the maintenance you performed on yours, it will likely be serving you for a long time to come.

Ralph

 

[tomturbomatic]

While the Power Vent style water heaters do not offer the highest efficiencies, at least according to those tables published by the Gas Appliance Manufacturers' Association, the one advantage to them is that since they use electricity, they can easily be put on a timer. Although I might have to adjust the timing for very cold water in the winter, my 50 gallon tank with 40K BTU burner is timed to operate two hours a day, from 5PM to 7PM. I did not need a Power Vent system, because I have the flue work that the other tanks have used, but I got such a deal on this tank that I could not refuse it. I have a three inch thick fiberglass blanket on it and it was needed because the tank walls were warm to the touch. It heats to 140 or 145. That gives me hot enough water if I am running the KDS18 after dinner, enough for a towel load in a top loader, when needed, and more than enough for the morning shower. I can use the Kenmore Ultra Wash anytime if I use the water heat option. Last Sunday, the water was decidedly tepid when I went to bed, but still warm enough that I had to mix in cold for my shower Monday morning. Having the electric controls allows for a thermister to monitor and regulate the water temperature and it gives almost instantaneous response to cold water entering the tank.

I don't know about other parts of the country, but our Washington Suburban Sanitary Commission, in an effort to grab more money, now includes the price of an installation/inspection permit, $55, with every water heater sold at retail stores which kinda cuts out do it yourself water heater replacement.

 

[bpetersxx]

Tom : Is that why when I run a small quantity of water the heater kick on for a few minutes I thought it was broken

 

[tomturbomatic]

Oh Yeah, it's very responsive and such a welcome change from my previous water heater which would let the temperature of the water drift down about 20 degrees before cycling on and that was with a replacement thermostat after the first one went bad. Fortunately, I was shown a trick by a gas company employee to remedy that. If you remove the dial from the thermostat on a regular gas water heater, you will see that there is a stop on the back of the dial just above the highest setting. Without that stop, you can then turn the metal shaft just enough to cause the burner to light. That is a built in feature for servicing purposes so please let's not begin throwing hissy fits because I am not advocating doing this. I used to have to do that to get water hot enough for the KDS18. I would turn up the temp and then set the minute timer on the stove for 25 minutes. When it buzzed, I would turn the control back and replace the dial. The water would be about 140 and I would start the dw.

The thermostat on the power vent water heater is completely different, a small dial on an electrical control and it's hidden way back behind two doors at the bottom ofthe tank.

About the highly styled water heaters of the late 50s and early 60s: Several brands featured tanks with squared off fronts that gave them a modern look, like the cars and appliances of the day, not like something relegated to the basement. That was when Sears offered the 3 stage burner in their top of the line models. It always started on the lowest input to prevent "flame roll out" and the sound of a mild explosion it would make if it started on the highest input. Then, depending on the temperature of the water in the tank, like if hot water was being drawn off at a high rate like for laundry, it could increase the flame through two more stages and really heat water fast. IIRC, which I probably don't, I think the input went up to either 60 or 75 thousand BTUs.