LG and Samsung HE top load washer explosions

[mtn1584]

I would like to ask the members of AW if they believe that these HE explosions are the fault of the machines, ie construction, etc., or are they because of user error...ie. loading a comforter with towels or pillows, etc.
Your thoughts please..
Thanks
Mike

http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z4fjiCz6tU

 

[mtn1584]

and now the Samsung explosion............

http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpH-3cxm9O0

 

[mrb627]

Samsung

In the case of the Samsung machine that blew up within seven hours of delivery, I would guess that was probably due to improper installation.

Malcolm

 

[mark_wpduet]

LG

had a recall and if you call their recall # they sent a tech to your house to do a software update which solved most LG customers problems with the risk of their washers exploding (based on what I've read)

I guess Samsung will have to do the same thing.

 

[henene4]

Lots of factors

I am of the opinion that every little variable in these cases played somehow a ruel.
The Samsung was probably faulty from the start as it only ran a few hours. Further, watching the othe videos on her chanel, an improper load that would usually cause a stop has caused that damage. It's as well recognizable that this was a low RPM high weight damage as the tub unit itself seemd rather intact a the metall looked more bend than "hammered" out of shape. The washer didn't move to much and I couldn't see any shattering of plastic or glass. She complained as well it would have had problems with spinning, so I tend towards damaged or loose suspension rods caused by transport or a manufacturing fault. A bad setup combined with a not 100% proper loaded tub than caused one sudden drum swing with the still heavy load during the wash to rinse spin.
In terms of LG: Most of the faults look and sound like the (later fixed) programming issue (which AFAIK only was a too early stop of OOB monitoring) combined with a unusual or a not-upposed-to-be-like-this kind of load (aka comfortes mixed with other stuff or water proof items) and sometimes a wrong cycle selection caused a sudden change of weight distribution in the load during mid and high speed spin in form of one item loosing big amounts of water in a short time which than caused a sudden "explosion".

 

[washman]

Thoughts?

Yeah, I can give you my thoughts on this.

Useless, poorly engineered, overwrought with bells, whistles, and gee, a ginormous wash tub that will never fill to handle ginormous loads five star pile of glitzy crap. Period.

Software reload to fix this? Please. How about using good, durable metal instead of cheap plastic to hold the friggin tub in place? Better yet, why don't these educated idiots in the engineering department go back to physics 101 and learn that metallurgy is the key here? You cannot use plastic or cheap pot metal in a highly stressed part of the machine and expect it to last. Dumbing down the spin speed is like using a band-aid at a train wreck. It's akin to putting cheap tires on a car then limiting the speed to 40MPH and calling that a "solution".

I laugh, I mean I really do, when these new eco machines brag about their 1000 RPM spin speeds. How it means less water in the laundry thus less drying time. Give me a break. IIRC, didn't Frigidaire have machines that spun over 1000 RPM back in the 40's and 50's? And to think these machines did this w/o computers, software updates, electronics and the blessing of algore? How was that even possible?
Simple.
Good design and engineering along with using quality components. Which is why so many of these machines (along with Maytag, SQ, GE and the like) can be restored and used by so many on here. I still look at Jetcone's pix of the Arc-cuate, cleaned and refilled with new lube and it works just like it did in 1957. I'd love to see some plastic fantastic last 57 years!

You couldn't pay me to take on one of these useless pieces of junk. I don't care if they use 10 oz of water and do 25 lbs of laundry in 10 minutes either.

 

[logixx]

Sorry to break the news to ya but... it's not always the engineering department that's to blame. I was an intern at Whirlpool's German R&D department (where the first Duets were made) and the engineers told me they wouldn't buy the newest washers they had to designed themselves because of the low water usage that the marketing department wanted to see. Engineers rarely get to design what they want to - they get orders from marketing to make machines use less water, spin faster, run quicker, have a larger capacity etc. and for a manufacturing costs, of course. What you end up with is machines like the LGs that use plasic parts where metal would have been a much better choice. Sadly, many machines and homes had to be damaged before metal brackets were used and more shock absorbers were added.

 

[henene4]

Plastic can't do what metal can

Well, no. My brother studies chemistry in third semester. And all the plastics out there are getting more and more stable and durable. And, of course, no one want's a plastic tub preferable.
So, why is it the plastic tub if for the last 10 years, most brands used them, and only 1 brand may failed hardly because of it (LG). The Samsung tub assembly was (though being 5 ft³ and plastic) still visibly intact.
And if an OOB load is not sensed by the board, that's most likely a software fault. And as after the software recall no other fault occured, it was most likely a software fault.
Period.

 

[DADoES]

 
The first video shows what appears to be a single large/bulky item in the crashed machine (which there's no way to know if they'd already remove some other items).  I think user error is definitely a contributing factor -- washing such items as comforters and waterproof/resistant mattress pads on the Normal/Regular cycle with maximum spin speed instead of using the designated Bulky Items cycle which has a slower speed and may take specific actions to help balance and deal with such items.

However, machine design and software is also a factor.  Presumably there is no physical off-balance sensor switch.  Off-balance is detected via software monitoring drum rotation and inertia during an initial spin ramp-up phase.  The sensing algorithms drop-out after satisfactory balance is confirmed.  Balance can be thrown wildly askew if for example a waterproof item shifts and releases retained water as spin goes along at a very high RPM, and there is no bump sensor to deal with the situation (for example, by quickly braking the basket).  Which, however, does go back to user error because the situation wouldn't be so damaging at a lower RPM.

My Fisher & Paykel machines have the same type of tub suspension (hanging rods and springs), and neither of them has had any problem with it (one is 15 years old).  The IWL12 model has a specific Comforter cycle that runs two deep rinses with no spin between, and then pauses before the final spin and beeps for attention with a message on the screen to "Press Item Down Below Medium/High Water Level and Press Start" to continue.  This is to insure that a large billowy item isn't protruding out of the tub which could cause damage to either the machine or the item during spin ... and also gives the user opportunity to visually observe that the item is arranged evenly around the basket, although spin is at a slow 300 RPM.  The other machine doesn't have a Comforter cycle but the user guide states to wash such items only on the Delicate cycle.  I have re-spun such items at the full 1,010 RPM for additional extraction, but ONLY while attending the machine and having manually rearranged the item to insure good balance.

 

[qualin]

A simple fix

I'm not an engineer, but I can certainly say that if they had put an accelerometer or a G-Force sensor on the tub, the software would detect the tub movement and brake the tub before the machine would have a chance to destroy itself.

I do think that it is a variety of factors which are causing these explosions, we're now seeing steps being made by LG and Samsung to rectify them, including making the mounting systems more robust and placing warnings about waterproof items on the cabinet.

I still think that regardless of the circumstances, if a user doesn't understand that washing something that is bulky on the "Normal" cycle with "High Spin" is a really stupid thing to do, the machine shouldn't self-destruct, but rather should protect itself, stop what it is doing and angrily beep, warning the user there is a problem.

Weren't there vintage washing machines with out of balance sensors that would just stop the machine? They were electromechanical and simple, but they worked, didn't they?

I mean, think about it.. this whole thing has cost LG and Samsung a lot of money.

At least I can happily say that I didn't buy one of these. I wouldn't want to own a machine which was dumb enough to destroy itself because it lacked the necessary hardware and software to prevent an event like that from happening.