LG Waveforce Investigation

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mrb627

mrb627

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 12, 2001
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Location
Buford, GA
Was watching an episode of Fringe last night and during a break, our local Fox channel is doing an investigation of the Waveforce machines. I assume there have been several complaints of self destruction at high speed spin.

Anyone else seen the story promo?

i'll post additional information as I locate it.

Malcolm
 
Before hanging out on AW, I was going to consider purchasing one of these machines to replace my GE TOL Top loader. Then I saw this youtube video....

(No need to watch the other 3 parts, this guy just complains a lot.)

If you pay close attention, he attempted to wash a king sized comforter on the "Normal" setting instead of the "Bedding" setting. My guess is that the "Bedding" cycle uses a much lower RPM spin.

Of course, the machine just self-destructed instead.

IMHO, I don't think that through improper cycle selection, a machine should self-destruct under any circumstances. Instead, the machine should just destroy your clothing instead. (ie. Using a normal cycle with delicate clothes.)

The problem I've noticed is that these machines have a very weak suspension system, you can easily move the tub around and bang it against the inside of the cabinet. The salesperson at the local appliance shop mentioned to me that this is normal with these types of machines. (The computer is supposed to balance out the clothing.)

However, when someone stuffs a large comforters inside of these machines, there's nothing any computer can do to balance it out, short of using a slower spin speed.

An accelerometer attached to the outer tub would put a stop to this nonsense right away. "Gee, the tub is banging against the cabinet, maybe I should try and redistribute or just use a lower spin speed!"

Personally, here's what I think we should do if we ever have a wash in:

1. We all pitch in some money to buy one of these machines. (Preferably used.)
2. We stuff a king sized comforter in it and use the "Normal" setting.
3. We pop a large bag of popcorn to share.
4. We enjoy the show. (Maybe afterwards, using the tub as a beer cooler.)

I personally would love to see a video of the event occurring, while an LG engineer who had a part in designing the machine watches, unable to stop it.

 
Unreal!

Thanks for the link!
This is scary! Imagine what could happen to some poor little kid on a chair watching this washer for the fun of it!
There is something terribly wrong with these washers! The explanation from the sales woman was ridiculous!!!
 
Today's families are busier than ever,  this foolishness will end up in litigation now.  If a child is injured or heaven forbid killed,  i doubt the "explanation" will fly. 
 
LG WASHERS

These are basically the same as the GE Harmonies that have been around for years. Both LG and Samsung appliances are at best light duty appliances. It amazes me that people will buy an expensive appliance with no proven track record of reliability, difficult to obtain repair parts and to top it off no decent independent repair company will touch it. Would anyone buy a car that couldn't be easily repaired ?
 
I beleave Malcolm stated here before that these machines front or top extra large capacity

machines CAN'T HANDLE LARGE LOADS .

Like true commercial washers with hefty bearings and shock systems.

But they advertise them that way all the time.

Like Whirlpool when the DUET came out still pushes 16 pairs of jeans

which is Insane !

Then Whirlpool said in different sizes of jeans... come on.. the average home pushes for the max

compacity possable ive seen it myself and ask them myself its always ...

I WANT TO GET IT DONE.

OR I DONT GIVE A SH**  I DONT HAVE TIME.

 

I do like the way they wash pretty interesting but bad guts.

Thanks for posting Malcolm.

 

Darren k

 
 
The top suspended tubs have been the norm here since the early 80's on a fair proportion of machines. Most of these machines are good for 15-20 years use and they rely on a traditional OOB switch to stop them if there is an issue.

The machines might be light, but there is no reason they cant work that way. The 20yo ones we have here are proof of that. Do the GE's have a traditional OOB switch, or does the CPU try and manage it based on the tachometer?
 
There was a thread about this previously on AW about these particular kinds of washers.

It's my understanding that these LG's just use a tach, so they'll gladly bang around until they self destruct and the motor can't turn anymore.

Like I said, I personally would love to see a video of this happening as it's happening. (Is that even proper english?)

I don't think the users are loading the machines incorrectly and I think what the rep from LG is saying is a bunch of bull... What I think is happening is that they're not selecting the correct cycle for the correct load and this is where the problems are happening.

Like I said earlier though, a machine should never self destruct because the user incorrectly set the cycle or some other setting on the machine, it _SHOULD_ be smart enough to know that there was user error and compensate for it.

Our TOL TL GE washer occasionally would make sounds like it was about to do the same thing, but it was always smart enough to slow down to a much slower spin when it was out of balance.. I never had a problem with it walking around.

This certainly does require more investigation.
 
Attractive Packaging

It doesn't matter if the machine will last or not, it is a very pretty appliance. The wash basket is blindingly shiney. And the control panel lights up and plays music. Who wouldn't want one...

Of course, this race to be the biggest machine has gotten out of hand.

Malcolm
 
I have a new Waveforce washer and am perfectly happy with it. A little common sense would go a long way in the use of this or any other machine.
Dennis
 
Cannot say I am a fan at all of these new machines with all these "fancy" electronics.

But for the record, you should save these king size blankets, covers etc for commercial FL machines.
 
@DirectDriveDave

I understand your point, and I am sure others will, but the manufacturers websites mention they can easily handle Comforters/Duvets etc.
Most even have bedding/comforter cycles.

Thats just wrong, how dare they accuse the user, especially if it has been installed by professional. Bet it was imported from China, or somewhere where it is very cheap labour.
 
glenfieldmathk1

Oh absolutely, I'm not fully blaming the user for this. They should have used the correct cycle, but at the same time the machine should have stopped when it detected these out of balances.
 
GOOD THING........................

there is a lid lock on this machine so you can't put your hands into the basket as it's spinning, and children should definitely not play on or near this machine as the lid instructions say on my SQ!!!...instead the entire top of the machine flies off!! Sorry, but this machine is a cheap-ass piece of shit. The tub being suspended by PLASTIC brackets while the machine spins at 1000+ RPMs???? They should at least be made of METAL, and the machine should have stopped spinning without "shooting it's load" of clothes all over the place. But Malcolm, is right!!! It is a very pretty looking machine!
MIKE
 
Weird, I haven't heard of any problems with the Harmony. And we have a Harmony and I've never noticed any particular problems with spin... the tub is softly sprung and it will sometimes wobble around, but we've never had the machine try to walk. I'm pretty sure it does not have an OOB switch. It might have the ability to sense imbalance using the tach.
 
There are solid-state accelerometers so cheap they can be included in $20 toys so there is absolutely no excuse for a $600-1200 appliance not being able to sense imbalance before it destroys itself.
 
To Arbilab

That's the other thing too...

We're accustomed to conventional top loading machines with spin speeds of somewhere around 600-700 RPM. (Vintage Frigidaires excluded.)

Now, GM had something up their sleeve when they designed a machine capable of 1150 RPM spins. I mean, you have to think, Automotive engineers designed these machines.

Then LG and Samsung come along boasting 1400 RPM spin speeds. I bet the ability to spin at 1400 RPM was more a marketing decision than a engineering decision. Then the bosses at be wondered how they could do it for the cheapest, this is the result.

I really makes me wonder what kinds of machines GM would be developing and building today if they ever decided to purchase the Frigidaire name back from WCI.

I can imagine it now...

"Well, we build these really large commercial trucks, maybe we can use the wheel bearings from those in our new front loaders."
 
My Fisher & Paykel . . .

. . . spins at 1000 rpm with never a problem in six years. AND, I have washed my queen size comforter in it several times.

I have used Dennis' LG, and it is a smooth running machine.

Jerry Gay
 
Dennis

I agree with your point but people on average don't display common sense in my experience. And as Glen pointed out, LG does advertise jumbo loads for their machines as well.

I think there is "under-design" here for economy's sake. A simple OOB switch would have caught that. And the switch could have triggered an electronic brake cycle in the motor easily.

Arbilab, must check out those SS accelerometers they sound cool!

But can you imagine if a kid was watching and he/she was positioned between the wall and the machine looking in from the side?? Gawd that would be awful!

I love washer drama!! Bring it on!
 
I am going to retract my "perfectly happy" comment actually because of an incident that occurred this weekend. I was washing a king-sized cotton blanket and two pillow cases Saturday on the bulky/bedding cycle, and suddenly I heard beeping coming from the inside washing area. There was an out-of-balance error code displayed. I lifted the lid and adjusted the items. I tried a total of three times to get this load to complete; it never would. I just got fed up with it and stopped it and put everything in the trusty Speed Queen toploader. The SQ ran flawlessly.
Dennis
 
common sense??

I have owned this washer since May 2011. This machine requires way more than a little common sense to operate. It requires careful attention to loading and cycle selection. It can never be left unattended as it will bang the cabinet during washing, rinsing and spinning! While I am relatively pleased with the washing performance and appearance of the machine, I hate having to pay such close attention to it during operation. I am happy with the dryer but if I had it to do over again, I would not purchase these machines. I miss my 9 year old Kenmore HE3t's that they replaced. Would be interested in hearing feedback from others that own this washer.
 
The SS accelerometers can be found in model helicopters (another hobby of mine). They operate to keep it pointed in the same direction and perform very well. I own about a dozen of them. Cost is on the order of $1 each in bulk. It's just a little stainless can with 4 connections and firmware in the control chip that responds to the SS gyro. Some will even shut themselves off if they hit anything, that depends on programming. So there's no question it can be done cheaply, easily, effectively.
 
To Arbilab and Kakkid

Arbilab:

You know, that blows my mind... I mean, these LG machines are fairly expensive here in Canada.. I'm amazed that a machine which sells for $1200 here lacks a $1 part which could potentially save the machine from self destruction. If LG bought them in bulk on reels, they could probably pay half that amount. I mean, they could even mount this component on the control panel... any banging would get picked up and it could reduce the speed...

Kakkid:

I think that by principle, washers and dryers should never have to be "attended to" during their normal operation. There have been numerous times where I swore my old GE would self destruct, by the time I ran down the stairs and dove for the stop button, the washer would just calmly slow down and use a slower spin speed.

So, I'd wait there, waiting for it to ramp up again to self destruction speed, but it never would.. the controller was smart enough to "remember" what speed "didn't work" and it would just spin at a slower speed.

Now, that's in a 2004 vintage GE top loader... and supposedly GE is very well known for cutting corners.. but they didn't with that machine. (At least, not if you count the plastic outer tub...)

So, if GE can do it with a $850-ish machine (At the time), why can't LG do the same with a machine which is 1.5 times the price?

I'm truly baffled. In some ways, I kind of wonder why domestic manufacturers of top loaders never got past 1150 RPM..
 

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