Life with the GE Profile DW, 2016

[johnb300m]

Just moved in, and started doing light washes of all my packed Dishware.
First impressions, this thing is very quiet.
Quite well built.
But the very hard water here is a challenge. There is a water softener but it is broken of course.
So I've been washing everything with Lemishine and it has been performing perfectly.
I've used the bottle just already, and they seem to work great. Because they spray against the ceiling when unused, they do make a little additional noise when the top zone is running.
You can hear when the bottom wash armory versus as well, because it starts to slosh at a faster rhythm.
So far it's rotation seems to be; standard lower wash arm, upper wash zone, back down to the bottom and it in reverse. And then repeat .
Not cooking in the new house yet, so nothing really soiled, but my black and slate dishes look too sexy in this machine, so I had to share!

Can't wait to Bobload this thing with filthy cookware soon!

 

[murando531]

A very gorgeous machine!! I'll be honest, I've never been a fan of GE, but their new dishwasher design has actually sparked my interest the past few years. If not for the love I have for Whirlpool already, the new GE's would be a close second decision.

The way you describe the sounds is very similar to my new Whirlpool. If there is any sound at all in the house, you can't hear the machine even the slightest. In order to figure out the changes in wash action I have to silence the house and sit right in front of it on the floor. Really, the loudest sound it ever makes is when it activates the TargetClean zone at the back, because if the water can make it to the door unblocked, it's like someone holding a shower nozzle against the door. Otherwise, the only way to tell what is going on is to press your ear against the door, and then you can hear the sloshing and spraying pretty well, although muffled. The lower wash arm on mine changes rhythm as well when the spray pattern changes, which is kinda cool to listen to.

Overall, looks to be quite a nice addition to your kitchen! Make sure to post pictures of the first BobLoad you put it through.

 

[user 3941]

Very Nice!

I've used GE dishwashers mostly over the past 16 years and really they've performed great. I never used one with SS interior though. When I bought my Frigidaire in 2014 after buying by condo, I looked at the GE's (with plastic interior) and I liked the Frigidaire better...it felt more solid. But should I get a new dishwasher...I'd very much steer towards one like yours. They are very beautiful machines.

 

[gusherb]

Nice!

Are you still in the Chicago area? I'm guessing the suburbs on some sort of well water fed house or municipal system if so. Lake Michigan water is at the bottom of the "hard" category around 8 GPG which never has wreaked any havoc anywhere but the showerhead for me.

 

[johnb300m]

Thanks for the compliments! I'm really liking this machine as it's the nicest DW I've ever used; being relegated to Rental Specials most of my life (sans my parents' nice machines).
It's not perfect.... The wash motor has an electrical whine to it from being a brush-style (but its powerful!)
The clips in the top rack sometimes impede on glassware placement. The top rack corners are a little weak (typical IME). The mesh filter doesn't come out AS clean as Andrew's Whirlpool. GE recommends cleaning it every 2 months or so.
Otherwise it's great so far!
The plastic tub GEs have gotten a bad wrap for poor drying. Which I can confirm, from the lousy drying in my parents' GDF540.
But the full stainless interior on the PDT and its little fan really help drying performance. Ive only used Heated Dry once, and EVERYTHING was dry after the 1hr dry time, even plastics! (Minus the concave cup tops and lid lips of course). Since the majority of loads will dry overnight, I'll likely use Heat Dry very little.

I'm still learning loading and water/detergent conditions.
Yes, gusherb, I'm in the west Chicago burbs JUST outside the Lake Michigan watershed. So we're on a municipal well..... With 25GPG!!!
The water softener that came with the house is 10+yrs old and barely works from severe neglect of NO cleaning or running empty of salt. I've cleaned it several times and I got it to limp along; giving me water barely down to Lake quality ..... I'm guessing around 10-15 GPG.
It's still hard, but better.
So far my mix of Seventh Generation powder, Lemishine pre wash, and Jet Dry turned up 3/4 way had really helped the PDT720 trudge through the onslaught of calcium and magnesium.

 

[murando531]

I would love if the WP had a fan for drying, but despite having no vent at all, I was impressed by how dry everything was after a cycle with no heated dry, when I forgot about it and never propped it open overnight. There was more "spotting" on the door, though very faint, but all the glassware was gleaming and dry. Only the Glad containers with the recessed bottoms had residual water.

And believe me, I was fully expecting the filter to be grimy or at least have grit embedded in the mesh. I still keep checking it after every cycle because I'm still skeptical, haha.

Our water here in Huntsville is so-so as far as hardness. Not hard enough to leave any bad residues but just hard enough that our shower and faucet fixtures will get calcium deposits after a while. I've found that I actually like the Jet-Dry solid rinse aid baskets that you just hang somewhere out of the way in the racks, because it just gently releases throughout the entire cycle, which also helps soften the water for the detergent to work better, and yet it doesn't leave any sort of smell or residue afterwards, and glassware and the interior and such are all squeaky clean. I always just turn my dispenser down to the lowest setting whenever I have it in. Just a thought.

 

[johnb300m]

Solid JetDry

Where on earth do you find solid JetDry?!
I haven't seen that stuff in ANY store since the 90s!

 

[askolover]

Walmart

has it. I looked at a box tonight while I was there, 2 to a box.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Finish-Jet-Dry-Finish-Jet-Dry-Lemon-Scent-Rinse-Agent-2.68-Oz/11027664

 

[johnb300m]

Well that's awesome!
Yea I haven't been to Walmart in YEARS so maybe that's why I have not seen them.
I'll have to try those and see how they do in my water situation.....at least till I replace the softener.

 

[mamapinky]

I also use the Jet-Dry baskets..they are very hard to find and I've only found one super Walmart anywhere near that carrys them and even they are usually sold out. Cheryl

 

[johnb300m]

JetDry baskets

I don't understand why stores don't stock more of these?
Dispensers break. Many are not adjustable for very harsh water conditions. AND, they all seem to have stellar reviews online....
You'd think stores would want to stock moving items...

 

[murando531]

I've also seen and purchased them at Target and Publix here, maybe it's a regional thing or something? I dunno. But if all else, I'm sure Amazon would be another option. I'm not a fan of supporting them or big stores like Walmart but if they're the only choices left, what can ya do.

But yes, I originally decided to try the baskets because I wasn't sure whether the dispenser in the PowerClean was working, until I was able to take the door apart and check and test the wax motors, and found they were in perfect order. I continued to use it because our water seems to have "seasons" where it can seem harder than other times, also affecting the washer and making me adjust detergent. I've tried researching our water ratings and contacting HSV Utilities to no avail. The test sheets give all manner of numbers, but none that specify GPG. In all reality, it's only a marginal variation, but either way I'll pop the basket in when the previous load showed signs of spotting, or I'll adjust the dispenser. The PC had no adjustment so it was either in or out.

I put the unused one I had in the new Whirlpool for the last two loads and turned the dispenser down to 1, just to see how it would do with the low water system and SS interior. Dishes are still spotless and aqueaky, and still didn't notice any off smell or anything, so it should if nothing else just soften the water a bit more throughout the entire cycle for your GE, at least until you get the water softener worked out.

Best of luck!

 

[iheartmaytag]

Jet-Dry solid

Died away because most new machines do have a dispenser, and I imagine that people were finding in machines with longer wash times that the solid was dissolving and needing to be replaced more often. 

 

When I had a BOL GE portable, no dispenser; I used the solid and was very happy with it.   Last year when my Kitchenaid needed to have the dispenser replaced because it was using a months worth of rinse aid in one wash I just opted to just put a squirt in the dispenser when I filled the detergent and used it that way until service could get out.   It was under service contract, but the "cost" was $175 on the invoice. 

 

He actually gave me the old one in case it had problems again out of warranty, as sometimes just a spring needs to be replaced, others just a O-ring.

 

 

[askolover]

Hey Andrew

Does Huntsville's water come from the TN river like Florence's does?  Ours here comes from the Duck River and it's around 7-8 GPG.  I'd dare say yours would be similar.  Before the water softener we had those nice mineral crystals on all the faucets and showerheads.  I recall when I lived in Huntsville the water "felt" (as in soap rinse-ability) similar to what was back home at my parents.

 

John....STAY AWAY from Rainsoft brand water softener!!!!  Total ripoff!  My last one was a Whirlpool branded one from Lowes and it lasted 10 years.  I had kept the Rainsoft out in the shop thinking I might some day refurbish it...and I did last January.  Found a guy in Florida who sells valve heads, parts, and resin beads for reasonable prices.  I was able to refit for less than Lowes wanted for a new one. It really wasn't difficult either if you have any understanding of how they work.  Here's the link to his website below.

http://www.softenerparts.com/

 

[johnb300m]

Softeners

Hey Askolover, thanks for the heads up!
I'm looking at GE brand at my Home Depot. It's less than $500, it's got the same dimensions as the existing Kenmore dinosaur, and it's made by EcoWater (formerly known as Lindsay Co.).
I know the EcoWater units aren't the BEST out there, but it's cheap, and they seem to have fairly good reviews online for a plug and play softener.
Plus I really don't have the luxury of space for a 'really good' unit, which almost always come as separate tanks for brine and resin. :/
This new GE would literally plug into my existing pipes. (lazy I know).

http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-40-000-Grain-Water-Softener-GXSH40V/203219780

I totally agree with your premise, and that link, to rebuild the units, except in this case.
Like everything else in this house, it's used and abused HARD.
The resin is shot, the connector makes me nervous, the valve has seen better days....and if I'm going to spend $ on rebuilding EVERYTHING, I'd rather just get my own brand new one, with a brief warranty, and then take it from there myself, with a unit I know I've taken care of.
If I'm still in this house 5-10 years from now, I'd almost enjoy rebuilding the new softener

 

[askolover]

Same as

the Whirlpool at Lowes...Ecowater makes them too, and I believe they make Kenmore (or did).  The one I had worked flawlessly for 9 years, then it would skip a regeneration and I'd have to do it manually once a week and that went on for about a year, then it would regenerate but still wouldn't have soft water.  I cleaned everything in it to no avail so I just figured it was something internal.  I almost went and got another one from Lowes too because of the convenience factor.  I'm just glad to have soft water again!!! 

 

[johnb300m]

My First Standard Load

So tonight I have my first full standard load in the PDT720.
They usually consist of mixed dishware, silverware, plastics and cookware etc.
Also in this load, I joined the fun of the peanut butter glass in the corner, so that's also along for the ride.

I decided to use the AutoSense cycle with this load, to see what it can really figure out with the standard mix.
Added a 1/3rd cup of vinegar to the machine (for my water situation) as well as the demo Cascade Platinum pac that came with the new machine.
The only option I chose was was Wash Boost to help scrub the pots and pans a tad.

Upon starting the cycle, the behavior was evident to be different from the other Normal and Light cycles I ran in the past. In addition, it seems like adding things in the start of this machine is moot. Even though I run my faucet to get the water nice and hot, the fill is so LOW, (aprox. .8gal) that the hot water never gets through all the pipes, and the 720 does an immediate HotStart, and dumps the first fill to purge the line. SO...my vinegar was lost.
It got weirder after that. It proceeded with 2 more fills where all it did was alternate racks for 2 seconds each. In the more standard cycles, it would at least wash lower or upper racks for a couple minutes at a time. But not on AutoSense it seems.
Once entering the main wash, it went back to the programming of longer sessions per rack (which makes more sense to me).

About the load, you'll see I have a crusty skillet, as well as a pasta pot with stuck-on noodles and sauce. The PB glass, some items with fine coffee grounds etc. It'll be a good sample of scrubbing, corner performance and redeposit/filtering. The skillet was placed facing the center where the powerful reversing jets are. And the pasta pot was placed over a Bottle Jet (but the feature not chosen, they 'seem' to run anyway).

The modes on this GE Profile are baffling. And I'm hearing things I've not heard before. I can discern when the lower arm is in its two modes. I 'thought' I could figure out the top. But even the top seems to have different sounds. In the main wash when going to the top, I could hear the ceiling rinse arm spinning and splashing the door, but I didn't hear the bottle jets firing like I did before. Then on another rotation, I heard the bottle jets spraying, but not the constant rinse.....very perplexing. This thing must be more complicated than I thought, as previously thought the bottle jets ran whenever the upper arms ran....and the bottle wash option just ran the top longer to really scrub bottles. Perhaps I really have no idea how this thing works LOL!
That's it! I'll have to put a camera in the Profile. I gotta know!

Results in the morning!
Enjoy the pics.

 

[johnb300m]

Load Results

The results are in.....and I'm pretty tepid about them.
In initial summary, it looks like I should've used the Heavy cycle.
Seems like AutoSense could not adjust to thoroughly clean this load.
The pasta pot over the bottle jet was pristine.
The skillet was mostly clean but with plenty of residue leftover.
One of the small plates up top still had a bit of residue on it.
The peanut butter glass in the corner was an epic fail. I was not feeling good about that test, but was pretty shocked at how bad it did.
The filter too, was still pretty grimey, but I'm chalking that up to the cause of PB swirling around in there for pretty much the whole cycle, since it didn't get cleaned out prior to the rinses.

Frigilux? How have your other results been with the 750?

Luckily though, everything else is very clean, and there's barely a hint of PB smell.

 

[murando531]

Perhaps the rapid switching of the arms at the beginning is a quick sensing phase to try and knock off loose soil and measure the turbidity of the water? Odd that it is such a quick pre wash though. The Whirlpool does a 3 min pre wash with every cycle, upper arm for half the time, then switches to the lower until drain. I wondered if this is to purge the water line for a hot main wash fill, except that when run empty it will skip the drain and proceed to the main wash because no soil is sensed. Heating the water shouldn't be an issue anyway because of the element being set into the bottom of the tub.

Does the upper arm on your GE also alternate directions, or is water pushed to all four "blades"? At first look it seems there's a lot of space that needs filled before water begins to jet out of the holes. I wonder how much pressure is making it out of the jets at the very ends of the arm.

If I were you, I'd take note of these results, and then try again once your softener issue is worked out. Hard water wreaks havoc on results no matter what kind of dishwasher you have. I'm sure once the water is optimal, you'll see a night and day difference.

 

[user 3941]

I have issues with any AutoSense cycle to be honest. I've seen first hand, including this post that sometimes it's just best to use the cycle that best matches your dishes load. My ex-bf's parents have a Kenmore dishwasher...more TOL I'd say and his mom always used the Auto cycle. When I was loading it one time she mentioned that sometimes the dishes don't get clean. I told her if it's a really full dirty load it's probably best to use the Heavy Wash/Pots/Pans cycle (or whatever it's called). At Thanksgiving we loaded it FULL and I put it on the heavy cycle. Everything came out very clean...though it took a lot longer. But that gave them an idea of which cycle to use in the future.

These auto cycles are fine for normal wash loads i would think, but event though they can sense dirt levels, they really don't know what's in the machine. I'd rather use a cycle programmed for what I have in there....

My Frigidaire doesn't have an auto cycle, but the Heavy Wash and Normal cycles both have dirt sensors and various wash times. Anytime I have pot and pans, I run it on Heavy Wash.

You should try it again on that and see what happens

 

[johnb300m]

I think you're right, Andrew, it was doing a cold water purge and then a sensing mode. I just don't know why it alternated the racks so quickly....
The top X arm fully runs at once, along with the top rinse arm and (now I'm assuming) the bottle jets. You're also right, it seems like a LOT of space to fill with water between the x-arm, the conduit, the top arm and bottle jets. In fact, the post-wash rinses must be partial fills, because there's a lot of cavitation in the rinses beside the main wash and final rinse. However, with the pump starving for water, it still sounds like there's a lot of pressure up there, because the bottle jets still make a lot of noise spraying on the ceiling.
The water softener IS working better recently! It's still not "soft" but it's probably on par with Lake Michigan water now.
I'm going to get some more Finish Quantum tabs, since I had great luck with those in the past, and I'm almost out of Seventh Generation (which is 'okay').

Joey, you make a good point too. I might stick to the programmed cycles more, since the sensor runs in those anyway! The soil sensor is up front, and I can see it glowing under the kick plate when the kitchen is all dark
If I use AutoSense again, I'll limit it to a more normal load without soiled cookware. Looks like cookware really needs the Heavy cycle.

I gotta try that Steam function out too! Next time.
And I'll try to take video inside as well!

 

[tgm8000]

Love my Ge PDT720

I have been using this dishwasher since april and love it. I have never had anything come out dirty. I am amazed evertime I open the door to unload it. I only use the auto sense cycle as it uses more water then the normal cycle. Yes it makes alot of strange noises when it senses in the beginning. I always use boost wash temp and heated dry. This is the first dishwaher that I was able to get large cookie sheets all across the bottom rack without hitting the spray arm.

 

[frigilux]

John-- I've never used the AutoSense cycle and after seeing your results, it's probably just as well I haven't. The worst cooked-on grime on pots / pans never fails to be vanquished on the Heavy cycle. I have softened water and keep my tap temp in the lower 130's. I use Sam's Club pacs on some loads and Cascade Platinum pacs on others. I have no complaints about cleaning with the 750.

Your description of the machine's altered behavior on the AutoSense cycle is intriguing. I may try it just to see if the 750 does the same thing.

 

[washman]

I never used the autosense

cycle on the unit at the condo. And I had to clean that darn filter every 3rd load otherwise stuff on top rack would never come clean.

And like others noted, drying was abysmal at best.

 

[murando531]

I'd be interested in knowing how the manufacturers program their auto sensing cycles. I wonder how they decide what soil reading warrants what cycle time and how many water changes and temp and so on. The Whirlpool hasn't disappointed with its Sensor cycle, but so far its choices with cycle behavior put it somewhere more aggressive than Normal but not as intense as Heavy. Even the manual states that the minimum water use is about a gallon or so more than Normal. I wonder if GE programs theirs to lean towards a lighter cycle whenever it sees a chance.

 

[henene4]

AutoSense

I can only imagine that the manufacturers run different load types on given appropiate cycles, then measure what the turbidity sensor reads, add a tollerance spectrum, and then basicly tell the machine to run sad appropiate cycle pattern within sad tollerance.

Further, the logical layout of such AutoSense cycle make clear why they aren't good with burned on or sticky soils (like PB): These soils need temperature, detergent and time to dissolve. Both factors that are determined during the sensing period and applied mostly after the sensing period. Thus, they dissolve once sensing is done.

Interesting note on that: To my knowledge, no AutoSense system can run any optical sensing cycles after detergent has been released, because detergent makes the water kind of "cloudy" and thus makes reading inaccurate. But, on the other hand, this allows for sensor guided interim rinses.

Further some AutoSense systems check for temperature curves as well. They basicly plot temperature vs. time within a given temperature range, allowing it to determin how full the load is. Such systems sometimes get messed up with loads of plastic or heavy pots that absorb a lot of heat.

Now that I think about it, wouldn't it be interesting to design an optical sensor that checks for different spectrums of color in the water? Like, the standard range used to day, and another for reds and one for greens? That way, one could make a guess about what the actual soil is?
Like burned stuff is brown, so red and green would both read high turbidity, giving long soaks; tomato and such would read a lot of red, giving many rinses; greens as well.

 

[murando531]

henene4 - The color spectrum idea sounds awesome!! It's funny, when Whirlpool first had their demo videos on the website when the Point Voyagers were gaining traction, they depicted the size and soil sensing system as some kind of wavelengths coming from the middle of the lower arm, so for a while I thought they had some kind of echolocation system that measured how ultrasonic sound waves bounced around and how much got absorbed from soil on the dishes. Imagine how different dishwashers, washers/dryers, cars, etc. would be if engineers had the freedom to design things the way they -really- wanted to.

I've found that the new Whirlpool seems to use its sensor for more than just periodic sensing-pauses. If there is any water in the sump up to any part of the sensor, it will perform a pulse drain at the start of the cycle before filling. When the water level is below, it just starts filling after the Start button is pressed.

I also noticed it add a few seconds' worth of water randomly in the middle of one of the prewashes, and again during a rinse in a separate cycle, but it doesn't do it every time. I can only guess that it will top off the water level if the sensor picks up any air, much like the Cabrio, unless the motor is able to sense cavitation. That eases my OCD knowing that it will still do its best to fill properly even if a shower or something is running at the same time. I suppose this is what Whirlpool calls their "Dynamic Fill" system.

 

[murando531]

I'd say Sensor cycles are great for what they are, and they've come a long way since the days with pressure soil sensors, like the high-end PowerCleans had that weren't very reliable, but a good rule of thumb would be to just use a heavier cycle or add the hi-temp option if there is anything stuck on the dishes that won't begin to break down during the first prewashes.

 

[johnb300m]

Sensors

Fascinating discussion on the sensors, fellas!

From what I know, the optical emitter in the current GE sensor is bright green.
When I did my initial test when I installed the PDT720, I could see the green light glowing out the back of the sensor.
There was also one time I interrupted the machine during a Heated Dry cycle, and much to my surprise, I could see the sensor still glowing green through the filter plate! Crazy! I have no idea why they'd keep it on during drying.

I believe GE's sensors used to be a red LED, based on my parents' much older TritonXL.

Partially unrelated, but there's some optical technology out there in smoke detection starting to use dual wavelength photoelectric sensing. Different wavelengths in fact reflect differently, so maybe there's something there with each manufacturers' sensors being different colors and changing over time. Maybe they're looking for different things?

It's a good question, when and where in the cycles the sensor is taking readings.
The old TritonXL literature said it constantly monitored soil and temperature. Those machines never paused and ours had a "sensing" indicator on the panel that would light up whenever the optical sensor was active.
It would stay on for all cycles, and through all wash portions. It would shut off during final rinses. However, during the LAST rinse, the machine would fill with fresh water, and pause for about 20seconds. The "sensing" light would come on for that time. Tech sheets said that this was a re-calibration time that the machine would do with 'clean' water. The final rinse was the cleanest time to do so. And it was great because it would always ensure base calibration to local water conditions.
I HAVE to imagine the Whirlpools and our new GEs do something similar.
As to when they actually take optical readings now? Who knows. I know all our machines do a lot of pausing now. So maybe they take periodic samples?

I wish my GE would use its sensor for water level testing. Because I feel like it short-fills on the rinses! But maybe that's by design. I think that's the most annoying aspect I've found. I want full pressure, dammit!

 

[jamiel]

Good point about the sensor not being used post-detergent drop. I'm largely happy with the behavior of the Bosch we got 2 years ago, but it's so quiet that I don't pay much attention to it. I do sometimes sprinkle some powdered DipIt on the inside of the door (a very old box) but will no longer do that (may try to catch the wash, though). I notice the Bosch seems to have trouble on banana pulp, which sometimes sticks to spoons/knives and doesn't dissolve off. I typically use AutoSense and Sanitize, for a cycle time of 2:20.