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whirlcool

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One of my friends is having problems connecting to the Internet with his MacBook Pro machine. I know there are some McIntosh people here, I'm hoping you can help.

Here is the setup:

MacBook Pro, AT&T DSL modem, & Airport Extreme router.

When the yellow wire (ethernet from the AT&T box) is connected to the Mac via the Ethernet connection, you can connect to the Internet fine with no problems.

When the wire goes from the DSL box to the Airport Extreme Box it doesn't connect.

Looking at the network settings, it shows that:

The Airport Extreme status shows: Connected
The Ethernet status shows: OK

There is a message next to the Airport Extreme Icon on the menu bar that says "Could Not Connect to PPOE server...." after trying for some time.

The OS is Mac X 10.5.6, Snow Leopard.

The Airport Extreme box has a green light.

Calling AT&T has been totally useless. They keep saying that the Mac is not compatible with AT&T DSL, or another agent will tell you that you can't use an Airport Extreme box with AT&T DSL or that your MacBook is broken and you need to take it to the Apple store to be repaired!

I asked them where do I go to define the PPOE server name and they said that they could only tell me for an additional charge!

Where DO I go to set the PPOE server name on the Airport Extreme box?
 
Allen, not sure how much one can help from far away with so many things that can go wrong when 3 devices interact (router/Airport, the AT&T box and the computer), but we can try.

When you say "network settings", do you mean going to System Preferences and then Network? Ethernet should either say "Connected" or "Not Connected", I don't think I've ever seen my laptop say "OK" for either when the ethernet cable is attached or detached.

Anyway, if it works when it's connected thru the Ethernet, go to the same Network panel in System Preferences and click Ethernet on the left side, copy everything you see (IP addresses etc), then click "Advanced..." and copy the settings for each of the tabs (TCP/IP, DNS etc). In particular, copy all the data for anything you see related to PPPoE, which is what it seems the AT&T DSL modem is using. You will need in particular whatever username and password he is using. It's OK is he remembers the password and is capable of typing it at the appropriate places, you don't need to know it but it'll be necessary for the login, which is what is failing, it seems.

Before we even go there, I wonder if the computer somehow got told to connect to some other wireless network? Because that might be one reason why the computer thinks it's connected to the Airport router but the PPPoE is failing (if he's connected to a neighbor's network, his login might fail). Make sure the network name the wireless is connecting to is the same as his Airport router. I'm saying this because I would expect that if the Airport router was not connected to the network the light would not be green, but yellow.

After you have all the data you need, click the Finder icon (the "face" at the extreme left on the dock, the pointer will in fact say "Finder" when it's hovering on it). Select "Utilities" from the "Go" menu. Double click "Airport Utility" to start the application which will communicate with the Airport Extreme router.

Select the base station, "Manual Setup", click the "Internet" icon at the top of the window and see if any of the data is not the same as the ones you wrote down from the computer. In particular, the "Internet Connection" tab has a pop-up menu "Connect Using:" which should read PPPoE. When all the settings are the way you think they should be, click "Update" on the lower right corner of the window. The base station should restart.

This all sounds more complicated than it really is, if you are used to dealing with network settings for Windows, it's pretty much the same old stuff with slightly different names and places in the file system. The only difficulty is that the Airport Extreme doesn't use a web browser to fiddle with its settings, you need the Airport Utility app to do it.

Good luck!
 
Paulo:

Thank you for your assistance. What you said makes sense to me and I know where to look.
When I said OK, I meant that the System Pref-Network-Aitport Extreme has a green light next to it with the words "Connected". There is also a green light next to where it says "Ethernet" and "Connected" but only when the DSL box cable is directly plugged into the Mac. Also, I know where to find the Airport Extreme Utility App.

You may be right about the network name. A list of at least 5 of them comes up. But only one has the guys name in it (he put his name in the network when he created it).
I found out that these people are going out of town tonight for a week, so it'll be a week before I can get back to this. Grrrr....
 
My MacBook Pro (2011, 15", OS X Lion) was having some wifi issues. To fix them, I went to network preferences and clicked the gear under the list of services and clicked set service order. Move WiFi to the top of the list. Close this window and select wifi (airport) in the menu on the left. Click the "Advanced" button at the bottom right, click "DNS" and add 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.1.1 to your DNS servers (the other ones there will disappear but this will not affect the functionality of your computer). Click OK then Apply. This solved my computer's wifi issues.
 
+1 for Airport Utility - if it is working directly connected to the DSL box then the Airport Extreme is the culprit, and with that program you can at least start to determine what's gone wrong. Does the AE have another ethernet port, not the WAN port but another hardwired port? If so, does the MBP work when you hook to that? I've seen some base station's Wifi fail at the same time their wired ports still work.
 
Yes, the Airport Extreme box has 4 Ethernet ports on it for wiring to your ethernet port on your laptop. That works. But as far as the MacBook Pro goes, it's the Airport Extreme port. And the MacBook said it is connected to that wirelessly, but it can't find the PPoE server.
So I believe the equipment is connected properly and talking to each other properly, but the airport extreme box is not looking in the right place for the internet server.
 
The Airport box does have 4 Cat5 connectors for directly connecting the laptop to it via a network cable. It doesn't work that way at all either.

This is so strange. The Macbook finds that Airport Box, but doesn't communicate with it. The people are coming back to town today so I will have some time to work with it.

I think what I am going to do is:

Press the reset button on the AE and this will reset it back to the factory defaults.

Delete all the networks listed on the list (there are quite a few, about 5 or 6)

Reinstall the network again. If not, it's a trip to the Apple store for testing of the AE box. But I have heard from some people that when you do this Apple will not fix it, but will sell you another one.

Thanks again for all your help, I'll keep you all posted on how it goes!
 
I had some time to work on this MacBook again. When I plugged in the Airport Extreme all I got was a flashing yellow light. It would never go steady green. The Aiport Extreme box was no longer showing up on the laptop. So, since the people who own it have something called "AppleCare", we went to the Apple store and spoke with a "genius". He couldn't get it to work, either even after doing a hard reset.
So they gave us a new Airport Extreme box, the "genius" configured it for us at the Apple store. We took it home, plugged it in and the light went steady green and the network was up and running!

So I guess the problem was an Airport Extreme box failure.

But during this exercise, I learned how to use a MacIntosh. The thing I noticed the most is that a lot of things that you have to configure yourself in the PC world is done for you automatically on the Mac.

The thing I didn't like was that the owner has two huge flat screens for monitors and the mouse cursor is very small and it hard to find on the screens at times. I wanted to make the mouse cursor bigger or color it but there were no options to do so. All I could do on the mouse control panel was adjust mouse speed, click speed, etc. Does anyone here know how to change the mouse cursor to a colored one or make it larger?
 
Click the Apple symbol, select System Preferences then Universal Access.

Click Mouse & Trackpad, then click and drag the Cursor Size slider. The pointer changes size as you slide.

Tweeking Mac OS X themes can be dicey, so I don't advise trying to change the pointer color.
 
One last question about Mac's.

On PC's you have diagnosics you run periodically. Things like scan disk to check the disk for errors, disk defragmenter to defragmant your hard disk, Disk Cleanup to clean junk files off of your hard disk.

Does the Mac have anything like this? Also what about finding spyware malware?
 
I'm not a modern Mac user/expert. But my impression is that defragmenting the hard disk is not needed under OS X. At least under normal circumstances.

I believe disk repair is handled by Disk Utility. (I can't remember for sure, but I seem to recall that it's in a file named Utilities inside the Applications file. But don't quote me--I haven't used it since 2007.)

I run Linux on my computer, and I never defragment the drive. It is not necessary. My oldest install, when it runs a file system check, reports what I think is fragmentation. The rate is only 2 or 3 percent. This after some time, heavy use, and a disk partition that probably should be bigger than it is.

I also have not had any issues with spyware or other malware. It can, in theory, happen--any system connected to the Internet can be compromised. But one huge advantage of UNIX type systems (OS X and Linux are both related to UNIX) is that security was built in, not added later like Windows.

Frankly, a lot of the problems that people take for granted with computers magically go away--or at least are diminished dramatically--once Windows goes bye-bye.
 
Allen:

Disk Utility shows the SMART status of an internal HD -- when you click a disk in Disk Utility, it will tell you either Verified or Failing. That's the hardware test of the disk components. You can also ask Disk Utility to verify the file system and repair it if necessary. Also, like John linked above, if you restart the Mac in Safe Mode, it will automatically run a disk verification/repair.

As for defragging, it's unnecessary under most circumstances, like the article pointed by John explains. The article doesn't exactly say it, but the system also moves all files that are in constant use to a "hot zone" in the disk which is faster to access, and it also reallocates any files that are in constant use and too fragmented (I think that's for files up to 200 MB) automatically. For the cases where it might actually matter, it's actually better to back up the entire disk and restore it because it takes less time, does a better job defragging and it's less stressful on the disk mechanisms.

Which brings me to the best "maintenance" steps you can take for the Mac: the first and most important one, setup and use TimeMachine (the automatic backup). That can be done either by attaching an external HD to the computer or using a version of AirportExtreme called TimeCapsule, which is a wireless access point with a disk inside that can be used wirelessly to backup and/or serve files that computers/laptops might want to use.

The second step is to make sure (System Preferences) that Software Update is either set to automatic or that someone regularly checks to see if there are updates (particularly security-related updates) to be installed and install them. If one doesn't have TimeMachine backing up the disk automatically, make sure to have a backup done before you apply updates just in case.

Once all updates are applied and the system is current, go again to System Preferences, click Security (the name varies, some versions of the system call it Security & Privacy) and if the padlock is locked, click it and login/authorize with an administrator account (usually most users have only one account and that's also an administrator) and when the options activate (they go from grayed out to black) make sure that "Automatically update safe downloads list" is checked -- once a day the system automatically downloads a list of signatures to protect against malware.

Most people never know or need to use the Hardware Test, but just as a curiosity, the DVD that comes with the machine usually has the system and utilities and if you boot from that disk you can run a utility that checks the hardware (memory, motherboard etc). If the machine came with two DVDs, the first usually has the system and the one that says "Optional Installs" usually has the hardware test. It often has in small text instructions on how to run it, usually by pressing "D" or "Command-D" as the system boots. Some newer machines don't need the disk for the hardware test, just by pressing D or Command-D as you start the machine runs the test.

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1509
 
Right now everything is running fine on the Mac. They do have an external USB drive connected to it, and I see the icon for Time Capsule. But they don't know what it does. Their son who lived on the other side of the country set it up for them. Is there anyway to verify that the Time Capsule is turned on?

Today when we were over there they got a download from Apple stating it was a "security update". Before I could say anything the guy who uses the computer cancelled it. I asked him why he did that? He said it's just like those e-mails from Nigeria, scams of some kind using Apple as the source! I told him I don't think he should be doing that.

After working with these people it dawned on my why they have a Mac in the first place.... they aren't real good at computing and the Mac does a lot for them so they don't have to remember to do things with it. They only use it for internet & e-mail access, that's it even though they have things like Microsoft Office and other useful programs on it. And they spent a lot of money too with those large screens and fast processor and 4GB Ram. The wife told Karen that if I hadn't had fixed it, it may have taken them a year to get it fixed. Technical things scare both of them. I just wish they'd have their fonts set larger. Even with that huge double monitor set up the fonts are like 8 point type.

That was a good article about defragmentation. Clever way they handle it.

But I did find the Mac very easy to use and feel comfortable now using it with some help from my friends here!
 
"After working with these people it dawned on my why they have a Mac in the first place.... they aren't real good at computing and the Mac does a lot for them so they don't have to remember to do things with it."

This is a HUGE selling point in favor of Apple. In fact, Apple is always what I recommend to people in this position.

"But I did find the Mac very easy to use and feel comfortable now using it with some help from my friends here!"

Does this mean your next computer will be Mac, Allen?

I honestly haven't spent enough time in OS X to really say how comfortable it would feel. I could use OS X 10.4 (now out of date--current is 10.7), but never really used it enough to know if it would "fit" me.

I did get an old Mac earlier this summer. It was priced at "make it go away, please!" I got it--it still worked, and figured I could find some use for it. (One big plus: it's new enough to be a viable Internet backup computer.) But a major motive was that I THOUGHT this machine had an older version of OS X on it. I wouldn't use that seriously, but it would be enough to play with. Unfortunately, it turned out to have Linux. I like Linux, but having it on the PowerMac doesn't help me with playing with OS X. At least, it works, and I've got a viable backup machine, and if OS X CDs cross my path, I'm ready. (The price needs to be right--it's amazing how expensive old versions of OS X are. I'm seeing prices $50-$100 for 10.4--which probably will see no more security updates, and has increasingly seriously limited software choices, including fewer and fewer current web browsers. With this level of obsolete, I either need a good reason to cough up the money--say, a project that will work better on a OS X system--or else really cheap install media.)

A former roommate did have a MacBook. I didn't use it much, however, but was impressed with the way it just worked, under heavy use. It was also interesting blending of worlds. Until that MacBook, my only OS X experience was playing with computers at CompUSA a time or two. But I do know the Classic MacOS quite well--used it for many years. OS X is different--something a lot of Mac users HATED when it first shipped. OS X feels, to me, like a blending of two worlds--Classic MacOS and what I've gotten used to in Linux.
 
Another thing I like about Apple is the hardware. I don't think it's built to the standards of 80s anymore--but it does seem to have better fit and finish than a lot of other companies.

When my former roommate got the MacBook, I actually went window (but not Windows!) shopping. Despite the whining in many circles about how expensive MacBooks were, I could not find anything that seemed comparable for less locally. Three areas that impressed me:
-The MacBook keyboard was something I could stand to use. It is not my dream--I like old 80s keyboards like the IBM M series. But, unlike other laptops, the MacBook was at least good enough that I could live with it comfortably in use as a laptop. As much as I like the M series, it's not something I want to haul along with my theoretical laptop to the library or coffee shop!
-The screen was good. I don't like glossy screens, which have become the standard. But the MacBook was the only glossy screen I recall seeing at that time that didn't drive my eyes crazy after a few minutes.
-The surface fit and finish and styling of the MacBook were better. This is not something that really matters on a practical level--but I really hated the look of most PC laptops which looked like either Fisher Price or trailer trash.

My former roommate was, last I heard, still using it 4+ years later, and has had only one hardware failure (hard disk). This is as a primary computer. So reliability--in that case, at least--is pretty decent.

Of course, a lot of people back then might have been better served with a Windows laptop for whatever reason. It's hard to argue, for example, with $400 vs $1,000 IF there is nothing that compels a given person to buy the MacBook. I could not live with a $400 laptop because of the keyboard--unless I carried my IBM M series everywhere--but not everyone is so picky.

Then, the Mac mini is probably the ideal desktop computer for me--small, easily placed, and--from what I heard said about some generations--dead quiet. (I hate computer noise.)

Of course, Apple has had some horrible designs that broke down prematurely. I think certain G5 machines were bad. I know the iBook G3 (white versions--not the original colorful version) had HUGE reliability problems.

Although I suspect that my next primary computer will be some sort of generic PC equivalent again. Low cost is a huge priority...unless I win the lottery!
 
On the topic of Mac maintenance . . .

You can download and use a couple freebies to automate the process of cleaning up leftovers from long-term operation and deleted applications. The most popular are OnyX from www.titanium.free.fr and CCleaner for Mac from www.piriform.com. CCleaner is still in beta. With either, be sure to uncheck the cookies cleaner unless you really, really, REALLY want to toss your browser cookies.

The first time I used OnyX it recovered a whopping 6Gb of hard drive space.
 
I would consider a used MacBook if one came along for the right price. My last laptop was a Lenovo and before that I had an IBM Thinkpad. Both were as reliable as could be and were built like tanks.

Karen has noticed a lot of fashionista's and design people used Mac's. It seems to be the fashionable thing to do these days.

I know what you mean about the glossy screens. These two monitor the people have are right in front of a window that lets in a lot of light. There is a lot of glare! But they have mini blinds in the window so they can close them to reduce the glare by quite a bit.

Now the problem they are having is with AT&T DSL. Does AT&T have any idea what they are doing? They are getting download speeds of 0.87Mps and 0.3 upload. That's not much faster than dial up. And they have had this for three years!

AT&T first told them the speeds are slow because they are using a MacIntosh and told them to take the computer to the Apple store and have them fix it. Apple Store said nothing is wrong with it and to take it back home. Then AT&T said there is a problem with the phone lines in their subdivision, they are too old for DSL.
The subdivision was built in 93'. Then they sent a guy out and told them that all the phone jacks would need to be replaced in their house as they were old and he didn't have the new jacks on the truck. Their house was built in 95'. The jacks are the current RJ-11 jacks that have been used for years now. Another guy came out and said that a fiber optic cable was damaged somewhere and AT&T doesn't know how to fix it. Finally, AT&T told them that the Airport Extreme box is eating up the speed and they HAVE to use a 2 wire box to get the best benefit. That's when they called me. I did a direct connect from the DSL box to the Max and got the same results exactly. It seems all AT&T wants to do is to give you some excuse just to get you off the phone with them!

So yesterday I took my Clear wireless box over there, just plugged it in, got max signal and the speed test showed between 8.5 & 9.2 Mps. So they are going to switch. I have had Clear for 18 months now and I think their Internet service is fine, but their voice service sucks big time. I dropped it and am using my cell phone only.
 
"Karen has noticed a lot of fashionista's and design people used Mac's. It seems to be the fashionable thing to do these days."

Apple has become fashionable in many circles. I see teenagers at the library, for example, and it's not uncommon to see them using a MacBook.

Design people--at least graphic artists--have preferred Macs since the 80s. They were, probably, one of the few reasons Apple didn't go under during its dark years. A lot we take for granted now got started on the Mac. PhotoShop, for example, was developed on a Mac.

Another interesting (?) historical note is that I understand a NeXT computer figured heavily in the creation of the World Wide Web. NeXT was the computer company Steve Jobs created after he left Apple in the 80s. Later on, NeXT became the foundation for OS X.
 
Allen said: "Is there anyway to verify that the Time Capsule is turned on?"

Go to System Preferences and click "Time Machine". That control panel will tell you if TimeMacine is on or off, which disk it's storing the backups on etc.

Every hour the system will make an incremental backup, so the backup disk will hold hourly backups for the past 24 hours, daily backups for the past month and weekly backups until the disk fills up.

From that disk one can recover the entire disk, or a directory, or a couple files.

Suppose you accidentally delete a file or botch it while editing (say you accidentally deleted too much text). You can click the Time Machine icon on the dock (green dial with counter-clockwise arrow). The screen changes to "warp field" where you can navigate the time line and directory structure until you find the right version of the file(s) you want, select them and click restore, presto, you have your files back. You can also recover deleted emails the same way.

earthling177++9-20-2011-00-01-25.jpg
 
Time Machine

This is something pretty obvious, but it's worth remembering to explain--or try to explain--to those who know little (and often would like to know even less) about computers.

Time Machine is NOT something you can put 100% faith in. It's a great invention--I wouldn't mind having it--but since it since it uses a disk set up on the premises with the Mac (often directly connected) it can potentially be rendered unusable by the fire/theft/washing machine explosion that takes the Mac out. Thus if one has critical data, it's a good idea to have another backup scheme in addition to Time Capsule. Ideally, something that involves off-site storage.
 
John, all that you said is very much true.

However, much as the saying goes "the best camera is the one you have with you", meaning even a cellphone camera is better than a pro camera you left at home, any backup is better than no backup. And backup that happens regularly and automatically is better than backup that happens only once a week, once a month, or never.

I have Time Machine working, and I also make a full bootable backup once a month or so -- Time Machine, good as it is, is not a clone, it needs to be restored to a disk. CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper are good to clone the entire drive so if anything happens you can just boot from the external drive. But I've seen Time Machine save people's bacon a few times. Obviously, if the hard drive fails or is failing, you can't trust that backup either. But again, it's better than the vast majority of the home users, who don't even have a backup, much less regular or current backup.

Because the vast majority of the times one does need a backup it's not because some disaster took your entire computer setup, but just because the hard drive failed or, even more common, people accidentally delete their own files. A current backup is great to fix that.
 
any backup is better than no backup.

Absolutely true. And I think Time Machine is a great idea, and it's very likely that if I had a Mac capable of supporting it, I'd use Time Machine. It's just that it wouldn't be the ONLY backup scheme. And, in a case where it's ONLY Time Machine vs Nothing, well, my vote would be "Only Time Machine."

The problem--or so I feel having known countless people with limited computer skills--is that they don't understand the realities of the risk of data loss. They might view Time Machine as 100% perfect solution--and never do any other backup of data that is hugely important and cannot be replaced. For that matter, I have even heard of people ask if a second partition on a hard disk is good enough for backups. (I don't know if Time Machine lets one pull that off--but it's something that can be done with other backup schemes.) They simply don't realize that if the disk fails--a major reason why backups are necessary--they won't be able to recover that backup data on the second partition. At least, not without a recovery service at $$$$ which may or may not be able to recover everything.
 
It's not impossible to set up Time Machine from a second partition from the startup drive, but when you try to do that the system will in fact alert you to the problem and ask for confirmation -- which is quite a shock for light users of MacOS X, because the system is so "yay! lets do it!" otherwise (the first time you connect an external hard drive to a Mac it bends over backwards to get you to set it up as a Time Machine drive).

In my experience, most people who use Time Machine mistakenly think it's an archiving solution instead of a backup solution. They think each and every version of a file is safely preserved and that they don't need to make any effort to archive those important intermediate versions of the file(s) somewhere else. The problem is that the system will cheerfully get rid of older versions to conform to the scheme above, which is prominently posted on the control panel: hourly for 24 hours, daily for a month, weekly until the disk fills up, then new versions will make older versions get deleted. The intention is to buffer users from mistakes and small accidents, not to archive all their work for eternity.

I've also seen (on the 'Net, "so it must be true!" :-) ) people get upset when the external drive dies and they buy a new one and complain that "now they lost all their history!" -- well, if the internal drive is working well, why complain? But I understand they don't see it as a backup, but as an archive. Which is wrong, but what can you do? ;-)
 
I found out the hard way about having a backup disk in the same room as my computer.
The last desktop we had I added a second hard disk just for backup purposes. It was only used to backup the primary drive on my PC. I thought I was safe as I always did a clone backup of the primary drive. If anything happened, all I would have to do is swap drives. Right? Well, we had a super power surge. Blew the computer out even though it was on a surge protector. Using some kind of hard disk utility I was able to recover the primary drive, but the secondary and the power supply was toast. I was very lucky there and two months later that drive failed.
But I had a good external backup by then.

I now have a WD 1TB external backup drive. I keep in in our bedroom closet on the other side of the house from where the computer is and only bring it out to backup the computer.

I think about 98% of computer users don't even think about backing up their systems. A lot of times they'll say things like "I don't have anything important on there." But what about digital family photos? What about online financial statements, what about userid's & passwords for commonly visited websites? And what about all their bookmarks/favorite places?

And then you have the people who think once they buy their computers they are done. There is nothing else to buy. Hmph! When you purchase your computer that is just the start! What about anti-virus programs, what about backup programs? Operating system updates?

Whenever I mention the cost of an external drive and a backup program I usually get the response "Well, maybe in the future I'll think about it", but the reality is that some problem will come up and they won't have a backup for their computer either.
 

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