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Machines of Ill Repute, Volume I - The later D&M Kenmore
- Thread starter roto204
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Thank you!!!
Thanks for all the awesome scans, Peter!! :-D Those are so fun to look through!
Thanks for all the awesome scans, Peter!! :-D Those are so fun to look through!
wireman
Well-known member
I think our last DW was a Kenmore of this design. Wasn't particularly quiet, and don't recall stellar performance either. When it went about 5 yrs. ago, we replaced it with a Kenmore Elite (Bosch design). Not certain that Greg would've been too excited about spending $750 for a DW, but Sears had one running as a display and Greg was sold on how quiet it is.
It has proven a good DW with almost daily use. We always run it on the pot scrubber cycle, as it is shorter (112 min.) and hotter than all but the quick cycle. It isn't as deep as domestic DWs; I understand that European lower cabinets aren't as deep as ours. Things almost always come out clean, but we DO soak pot or pans that have burned or baked on food. Except for an occasional whisper, you'd not know it is running. The ONLY issue is that the upper rack has developed a rusted through spot in a corner.
Duane
It has proven a good DW with almost daily use. We always run it on the pot scrubber cycle, as it is shorter (112 min.) and hotter than all but the quick cycle. It isn't as deep as domestic DWs; I understand that European lower cabinets aren't as deep as ours. Things almost always come out clean, but we DO soak pot or pans that have burned or baked on food. Except for an occasional whisper, you'd not know it is running. The ONLY issue is that the upper rack has developed a rusted through spot in a corner.
Duane
wireman
Well-known member
I think our last DW was a Kenmore of this design. Wasn't particularly quiet, and don't recall stellar performance either. When it went about 5 yrs. ago, we replaced it with a Kenmore Elite (Bosch design). Not certain that Greg would've been too excited about spending $750 for a DW, but Sears had one running as a display and Greg was sold on how quiet it is.
It has proven a good DW with almost daily use. We always run it on the pot scrubber cycle, as it is shorter (112 min.) and hotter than all but the quick cycle. It isn't as deep as domestic DWs; I understand that European lower cabinets aren't as deep as ours. Things almost always come out clean, but we DO soak pot or pans that have burned or baked on food. Except for an occasional whisper, you'd not know it is running. The ONLY issue is that the upper rack has developed a rusted through spot in a corner.
Duane
It has proven a good DW with almost daily use. We always run it on the pot scrubber cycle, as it is shorter (112 min.) and hotter than all but the quick cycle. It isn't as deep as domestic DWs; I understand that European lower cabinets aren't as deep as ours. Things almost always come out clean, but we DO soak pot or pans that have burned or baked on food. Except for an occasional whisper, you'd not know it is running. The ONLY issue is that the upper rack has developed a rusted through spot in a corner.
Duane
wireman
Well-known member
Sorry for the double post!
Kinda rinky-dink design
Not at all surprised the Whirlpool Powerclean design won out for Sears DW's. It is a much better product(a bit disconcerting to hear your dishes flying around and slamming into eachother in the DW though. But a good choice by Sears.
Not at all surprised the Whirlpool Powerclean design won out for Sears DW's. It is a much better product(a bit disconcerting to hear your dishes flying around and slamming into eachother in the DW though. But a good choice by Sears.
Frigidaire DW's - Ugh
I had a Frigidaire Gallery dishwasher, purchased about 1997. It was a POS. Not bottom line, either.
It had the following flaws:
1) The fine debris screen was made out of warped white plastic. It never ever lay flat against the basin it was above. Consequently food debris constantly skipped under it. I happen to like raw sunflower seeds, and these would get into the wash arms and clog them in no time. Plus all the grit all over the finished dishware. Grrr.
2) The upper rack had extremely flimsy mounting. Many was the time when it would suddenly fall off one side or another, with the entire rack crashing down. Grr again.
3) During the six years I owned the Frigidaire.. replaced the drain motor and two of the thermostats. It was educational but after a while I got tired of the hands-on repair scene. I finally replaced it with a MOL Bosch that was a Sears customer return, and even though that one was further damaged by clumsy Sears loading dock personnel, it has worked flawlessly ever since (I simply punched a dented in the upper inside right rear corner back into usable shape with my fist).
4) One thing the Frigidaire DW had going for it was the clever way it used one pump to alternate between upper and lower racks, with a ball that would block and unblock water distribution from one section to another. So the water stream was forceful enough without requiring a bigger motor. Until the screen let debris clog the wash arms, that is.
I had a Frigidaire Gallery dishwasher, purchased about 1997. It was a POS. Not bottom line, either.
It had the following flaws:
1) The fine debris screen was made out of warped white plastic. It never ever lay flat against the basin it was above. Consequently food debris constantly skipped under it. I happen to like raw sunflower seeds, and these would get into the wash arms and clog them in no time. Plus all the grit all over the finished dishware. Grrr.
2) The upper rack had extremely flimsy mounting. Many was the time when it would suddenly fall off one side or another, with the entire rack crashing down. Grr again.
3) During the six years I owned the Frigidaire.. replaced the drain motor and two of the thermostats. It was educational but after a while I got tired of the hands-on repair scene. I finally replaced it with a MOL Bosch that was a Sears customer return, and even though that one was further damaged by clumsy Sears loading dock personnel, it has worked flawlessly ever since (I simply punched a dented in the upper inside right rear corner back into usable shape with my fist).
4) One thing the Frigidaire DW had going for it was the clever way it used one pump to alternate between upper and lower racks, with a ball that would block and unblock water distribution from one section to another. So the water stream was forceful enough without requiring a bigger motor. Until the screen let debris clog the wash arms, that is.
Frigidaire D & M
As I tried to do before I will post 2 page instructions of the TOL 5900 model shown above from 1991!
As I tried to do before I will post 2 page instructions of the TOL 5900 model shown above from 1991!
Frigidaire D & M!
page 2
page 2
D&M
When did the D&M design go out of production?
I've never lived with one, or even used one.
Dave
When did the D&M design go out of production?
I've never lived with one, or even used one.
Dave
whirlcool
Well-known member
Our last dishwasher was one of these D&M designed dishwashers. It was also the BOL model. And I mean absolute BOL! The only controls it had was one switch for heated dry or not and the dial only had two markings on it, Start then later on Dry. That was it.
The thing would wake the dead when it ran, but if you had your hot water tank anywhere north of 130F, it did a good job cleaning. That seemed to be the key with this unit.
The thing would wake the dead when it ran, but if you had your hot water tank anywhere north of 130F, it did a good job cleaning. That seemed to be the key with this unit.
Hot water and scraping!
Allen, I agree that the key was a lot of hot water--and pre-scraping! No rinsing required, but scraping prevented endless forays to the sink with toothpicks to clear the wash-arms.
Dave, I think these finally petered out in the early nineties--my owner's guide matched Peter's 1991 print date, but I'm not sure if this was the swan song for that design.
The 18" models persisted long after that, well into the 2000s.
Allen, I agree that the key was a lot of hot water--and pre-scraping! No rinsing required, but scraping prevented endless forays to the sink with toothpicks to clear the wash-arms.
Dave, I think these finally petered out in the early nineties--my owner's guide matched Peter's 1991 print date, but I'm not sure if this was the swan song for that design.
The 18" models persisted long after that, well into the 2000s.
barely beats handwashing
Those DWs are horrible! I lived in two separate apartments which had the BOL Kenmores. The first one was built around 1996 and had the standard DW design(door and access panel). Basic apartment model, had about 3 cycles and heated or cool dry options. Telescoping wash tower was the only thing washing the upper rack. Noisy and didn't do all that good of a job. Then I moved into a newer, more "upscale" apartment which was built around 2002. Also had BOL Kenmore, but this one had the single piece door(no access panel)and taller tub. Had the fine mesh screen in the bottom of the tub as well. It was much quieter than the previous one, but actually cleaned worse. Being used to a circa 1995 Ultrawash back at my parents' house, I was very disappointed in those Kenmores.
Those DWs are horrible! I lived in two separate apartments which had the BOL Kenmores. The first one was built around 1996 and had the standard DW design(door and access panel). Basic apartment model, had about 3 cycles and heated or cool dry options. Telescoping wash tower was the only thing washing the upper rack. Noisy and didn't do all that good of a job. Then I moved into a newer, more "upscale" apartment which was built around 2002. Also had BOL Kenmore, but this one had the single piece door(no access panel)and taller tub. Had the fine mesh screen in the bottom of the tub as well. It was much quieter than the previous one, but actually cleaned worse. Being used to a circa 1995 Ultrawash back at my parents' house, I was very disappointed in those Kenmores.
Sucksters
I haven't had the "privilege" of using the wash-tower units. We saw a White-Westinghouse unit that was like mine but with a tower and the full-length upper wash arm on the top of the tank, and I thought that was interesting.
This unit has three wash arms, and wasn't objectionable cleaning-wise. No chrome gone off the trailer hitch, but better than the later wimpy-pump Electrolux units that had a ball, but no balls.
I haven't had the "privilege" of using the wash-tower units. We saw a White-Westinghouse unit that was like mine but with a tower and the full-length upper wash arm on the top of the tank, and I thought that was interesting.
This unit has three wash arms, and wasn't objectionable cleaning-wise. No chrome gone off the trailer hitch, but better than the later wimpy-pump Electrolux units that had a ball, but no balls.
mrcleanjeans
New member
Nate, I L-O-V-E your reviews and writing style! You are a hoot! And you've answered that age old question I've had (well, really, 2 decade old question)about whether or not that honkin' "soil separator" really worked. BTW,what is the large hole resting atop of that thang? An olive pit port or what?
D&M dishwashers
I started in the appliance business by rebuilding D&M (Design and Manufacture) dishwashers and selling them, or rebuilding them for apartment managers in the late 70s. I would go to thrift stores and buy them for 25 cents to $5. I'd put in a new pump seal kit, test it and sell it. If they were rusted out, I'd part them out. Often the screws would break off in the pump body, so I would use one from another machine. To make them nice and quiet, I would staple carpet or padding to the inside of the cabinet. Works great!
I started in the appliance business by rebuilding D&M (Design and Manufacture) dishwashers and selling them, or rebuilding them for apartment managers in the late 70s. I would go to thrift stores and buy them for 25 cents to $5. I'd put in a new pump seal kit, test it and sell it. If they were rusted out, I'd part them out. Often the screws would break off in the pump body, so I would use one from another machine. To make them nice and quiet, I would staple carpet or padding to the inside of the cabinet. Works great!
Thank you!!
Thank you so much, Dave! I'm not sure what the hole on the separator is. Peter (peteski) had an Admiral brochure that attempted to explain the operation, but I think it was a lot of illustration and not much substance on WCI's part. I didn't dismantle it to see how it really was supposed to work. I believe water was infused by the pump, heavier soil was supposed to fall out by gravity, and clean water could exit the top port, leaving the yuck behind, but that's odd because I'm not sure why you'd want to bleed wash pressure out into the tank, rather than sending clean water up to the arm.
Of course, no clean water ever reached the arm anyway ;-), so maybe it was moot.
The olive-pit port was the wash pump, wherein all broken glass and foreign objects were automatically flushed to the wash arms for easy removal! ;-) Once the arms filled up with enough vanes broken off the wash impeller, and the wobbling impeller stack compromised the carbon-porcelain seal, it was time for a pump seal kit.
Gary, I love the story of $0.25 to $5 D&Ms. I seldom see them for less than $25 these days! I also love the idea of padding them to make them quiet--LOL!
I found that the later units with the black, two-piece sump (early-eighties, but before the dreaded soil-separator) were VERY easy to service. The ones with the porthole at the bottom, with its ring of bolts, were not so much.
Thank you so much, Dave! I'm not sure what the hole on the separator is. Peter (peteski) had an Admiral brochure that attempted to explain the operation, but I think it was a lot of illustration and not much substance on WCI's part. I didn't dismantle it to see how it really was supposed to work. I believe water was infused by the pump, heavier soil was supposed to fall out by gravity, and clean water could exit the top port, leaving the yuck behind, but that's odd because I'm not sure why you'd want to bleed wash pressure out into the tank, rather than sending clean water up to the arm.
Of course, no clean water ever reached the arm anyway ;-), so maybe it was moot.
The olive-pit port was the wash pump, wherein all broken glass and foreign objects were automatically flushed to the wash arms for easy removal! ;-) Once the arms filled up with enough vanes broken off the wash impeller, and the wobbling impeller stack compromised the carbon-porcelain seal, it was time for a pump seal kit.
Gary, I love the story of $0.25 to $5 D&Ms. I seldom see them for less than $25 these days! I also love the idea of padding them to make them quiet--LOL!
I found that the later units with the black, two-piece sump (early-eighties, but before the dreaded soil-separator) were VERY easy to service. The ones with the porthole at the bottom, with its ring of bolts, were not so much.
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
I've never heard of this D & M? I thought WP always made dishwashers for Sears.
But.....In the 70s when my aunt/uncle had their house built & all new Kenmore appliances installed, I remember it didn't look anything like my grandmas Whirpool.
Now I know why.
The WP was better to me
But.....In the 70s when my aunt/uncle had their house built & all new Kenmore appliances installed, I remember it didn't look anything like my grandmas Whirpool.
Now I know why.
The WP was better to me
