Manhattan Steam Explosion

[sudsmaster]

Just saw on the ABC evening news about a huge steam main explosion in Manhattan at rush hour. People thought it was a terrorist attack and were appropriately terrified. Nobody killed, some injuries. Huge hole in the street.

Toggle, do you have any more detail/commentary? Were any washers damaged in the explosion?

 

[gansky1]

Apparently, one person was killed.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/07/18/buildings-evacuated-after-midtown-explosion/

 

[sudsmaster]

Oh, I didn't know that. I thought there were only minor injuries.

 

[gansky1]

Awful -

I sounds like it would have been terrifying - and right during rush hour too.

 

[dalangdon]

AND right by Grand Central.

I can't even begin to imagine what the infrastructure around that must be like: electric lines, telecom lines, gas lines, water lines, subway lines, rail lines, steam lines - and all old as the hills.

Hopefully, there will be no more casulties. Death by scalding must be horiffic.

 

[launderess]

Happened Near Grand Central Terminal

Right by the Chrysler Building and at the height of rush hour, which at that time in that area is jam packed with people.

NYC had buckets of rain in a very short time this morning, wonder if that had anything to do with it.

Pipe:

http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3391889

 

[launderess]

Area isn't that far from us, but am too knackered from heat and humidity to trek down and take a peek. Oh tomorrow is going to be some commute.

Poor Con Edison, they can't win for trying and you can be sure politicans are once again going to be all over the utility like a monkey on a cup cake. Especially since this is the one year anniversary of the Queens blackout that left people in the dark for days.

L.

 

[oxydolfan1]

The person who died went into cardiac arrest.

A large number of people went into complete panic, IMHO largely because they've been whipped up into a state of utter fear by terror scares, psychic predictions of apocalyptic carnage by key governmental officials, etc.

Meanwhile, in reality, these pipes rupture CONSTANTLY downtown, because they are ancient, and the wisest way of dealing with this sort of occurrence is to GO HOME and not gawk, and most importantly, shower immediately and either wash or trash your clothes, because they used asbestos to insulate those pipes in the old days.

Samples were taken before sundown, and there should be more conclusive information available by 10 PM, for those who trust the judgements that will be made. They are still checking the tunnels one by one under the station, so the trains will be backed up WAY late. A lot of tenants in the area have been barred from their apartments for the time being (fortunately, a lot of those folks are out of town for the summer).

Traffic is bad all the way down to Union Square and I would say up to about the mid fifties by Sixth Avenue.

There is a creepy sulfur smell all about. I don't recall that smell at any prior steam explosions, but it's not an entirely unfamiliar smell either, so, who knows?

 

[oxydolfan1]

Launderess, the buses are completely in chaos, because of the rerouting, and the 4, 5, and 6 are out...the 7 is back but bypassing Grand Central....

They don't know what they are doing with the trains yet for tomorrow.

 

[Cybrvanr]

IIRC I have heard that the rail tunnels under grand central are 5 layers deep...not counting utilities! That's a lotta stuff down there. I imagine this pipe explosion really wrecked things down below! What a mess! I've been in that area before and it's quite a busy place! With all the talk on the news lately about imminent terror attacks and Al Queida being just as strong as it was before 9-11, I imagine this really struck fear into lots of people around there!

 

[dalangdon]

My partner used to work the long-haul Amtrak trains that went into Grand Central (They all go through Penn Station now) and he has many interesting stories about the depths of Grand Central, where they would park the trains overnight.

Since he was the on-board Manager, he would many times spend the night in the empty train, so he could keep an eye on things (apparently a lot of people who shouldn't be there go through there)

There's not only several levels of track, there's also a power plant at the very bottom. During WWII, it had a 24 hour armed guard.

 

[peteski50]

Manhattan Steam Explosion

I was on my way to work and just got out at grand central a few minutes after the explosion. I didn't know what was happening. Everyone was screaming we are being attacked. I didnt believe that. I couldnt get on the subways at grand central so I walked to the wast side and took a train downtown. I suppose in the morning when I leave their will be more delays. I didnt realize what happened until I saw the news from work.
Peter

 

[oxydolfan1]

Peter, the trains are running but bypassing Grand Central.

They've been having trouble with the pipe at that corner for a long time....they've had those metal plates on and around the corner.

What a mess. Thank God, you weren't closer.

Is there still that horrible smell?

 

[DADoES]

Scary stuff. Steam explosions in NYC, random shootings on Houston and LA freeways. Makes a body prefer to stay home.

 

[toggleswitch]

It was a really shitty day. Literally

Frequently, besides the obvious issues, asbestos used to insulate these pipes becomes friable and air-borne. This is normally of great concern after an event like this. The people in white contamination suits go in and probe the area.

Not sure how much rain Mahnattan got and if the earth shitfed under/around said and subject pipe perhaps causign to to break under its own weight. In the Queens borough/county section of NYC there was something like 5 inches (12.5cm) of rain in an hour causing all kinds of flooding, subway issues and general havoc and destruction.

Here, 6 miles from NYC I had basment flooding. All of a suuden there was an inch of water in a normally dry basement. My winow-wells were half full of water and it was pouing in from said windows. It was like looking into the door window of an old front-loader.

My mother (In Flushing Queens, NYC) had water jetting out of the basement-level shower and toilet. [3 inches of raw sewage on the floor. YUM!]

In my 40+ years I have only seen/heard of rains like this in this area once before, about 5 years ago. These two flood events (which affected Mother toggle's house) plus a washer hose that popped 6 weeks ago at her place have caused the process of selling her house (of 30 years) to have begun immediately, if not sooner.

As you can see I was a bit distracted yesterday and did not hear much of the steam-pipe expolosion. I am hoping and praying that the devastation and misery to all involved/affeced was the minimum possible under the circumstances.

Pipe:
Queens flooding story
(Link may change over time)

http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=1&aid=71791

 

[toggleswitch]

I feel the Earth move under my feet.

Pipe:

NY1 version
Steam pipe explosion in Manhattan, NY

(link may change over time)

Due to wide-scale use of absorption A/C (heat as energy, not electricity) in Manhattan there may be a number of buildings without air-condtioning for a few dways/weeks. Larger buildings do not have operable/openable windows.



http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=1&aid=71803

 

[tolivac]

I wonder if the "Rent a Chiller" businesess will work out here-Have seen this before in the Wash DC area where a large building had a prolonged chiller failure-to continue their operations rented a chiller unit packaged on a semi trailer.It is connected to the buildings HVAC,and power system-and the building gets cooling.In many cases this is essential-esp if electronic or computer equipment is involved-it cannot be operated for long before overheating.not to mention what the heat does to people as well.

 

[westyslantfront]

The news stated that the steam pipe that burst was installed
in 1924. Perhaps we think to think about updating our
infrastructure.

Ross

 

[oxydolfan1]

"These two flood events (which affected Mother toggle's house) plus a washer hose that popped 6 weeks ago at her place have caused the process of selling her house (of 30 years) to have begun immediately, if not sooner."

People lose patience. At least, your mom will make a lot of money when she bails out....Flushing and Bayside are big money these days, especially when you figure how much the residents paid thirty years ago!

I wish her luck in her plans for the future. It's the people that stayed, invested, and propped up the middle-class areas during the devastation years that helped give me decent neighborhoods to live in, shop, etc., and I will always be grateful.

 

[toggleswitch]

Dirt and germs are her personal enemy. It's tiring just

Thank you for the good wishes.

The woman deserves a break after decades of gardening, shoveling snow and maintenace as well as traditional "housewife" duties extrodinaire.

 

[oxydolfan1]

"Perhaps we think to think about updating our
infrastructure."

That would seem to be the common-sense approach, but you have to remember the immensity of such an undertaking. You know from living here, that when one pothole gets filled, there's pandemonium! Another problem is that any money that gets allocated for capital improvement projects disappear quickly into the pockets of the politicians and crooked contractors.....everything is "Homeland Security", "Homeland Security", and even that money vanishes without anything meaningful having been done.

For instance, several capital improvement projects to rebuild the subway, which was getting better ten years ago, have long ceased to be. Basic maintenance is non-existent (last week I was clocked by a falling piece of painted plaster on the staircase), and the city council recently agreed that, in the absence of realistically being able to refurbish the stations in the foreseeable future, they will instead paint every station, so that the ridership "feels" less depressed.

BTW, this little exercise in futility will take an estimated ten years.

So, it's not even just the pipes, the electrical grid, the overjammed streets, the transit system going (back) to the dogs, etc. It's the confluence of all these factors together that make restoration seem insurmountable (and another issue is that they don't really restore, but replace with some structure that won't last thirty years, much less a hundred...)

I'm sorry. Can you tell I'm down on the city this morning?

 

[hoover1060]

One of my branches

is right across the street from where this happened, they have no power, and the network and phones are out. I'm trying to talk to the assistant manager now, he's using his cell phone...

Not going to be a fun month end with them!

 

[toggleswitch]

~I wonder if the "Rent a Chiller" businesess will work out here.

Technically yes. I have seen this done not only in FL but here in NYC.

"Parking" it, (finding a physical place to put it on the streets)--- AHHHH that's the issue. We won't even begin discuss the hell of getting an oil/diesel delivery truck to re-fuel it.

 

[fa_f3_20]

Sulfur smell

In a lot of steam and circulating water heating/cooling systems, they put a bit of sulfuric acid in. It keeps the Legionnaire's disease bacteria from growing in the water.

 

[tolivac]

The 'rent-a-chiller" isn't fuel powered-its powered from the buildings electric system.But now see what you mean-where to park it?

 

[toggleswitch]

HOW much for that?

IIRC I have seem both electric and fuel-fired versions.

One does not want to use electricity in summer in Manhattan if possible (to use another source of energy)in that demand metering has punitive rates for the greatest electrical demand over any 15 minute period.

Our rent-a-boiler(s) are trailers with oil-fired heaters that link into a building's heating system. Similar idea.

Many Manhattan buildngs use city steam for heating. You can't easily put a boiler on the roof of a tall buildng. Getting the fuel to the top is difficult and perhaps unsafe. You can't put a boiler in the basement of a skyscraper in that venting the thing is a nightmare due to distance nvolved and the cooling/condensing of the water-vapour and the corrosive gases in the effluent.

CH4 + O2 => CO2 + H2O + heat

methane (natural gas) + oxygen yields carbon dioxide + water vapour + heat. Other impurites in the fuel give off sufuric and nitrous oxides as well.

City steam is more expensive, but generally safer (within the building; no carbon-monixide fears) and cuts the need for engineers/ maintennce staff. It can easly be converted to hot water for the taps and hot water for heating. It is used for cooling and perhaps to power emergency generators as well.

Manhattan is normally 2 to 3 *F warmer than surrounding areas due to steam pipes below the streets and the huge volume of energy/heat used in a concentrated/small area. (The island itself).

 

[toggleswitch]

I worked on 42nd Street

a block or two from the expolsion site.

I spoke with a former co-worker who is still working there. She said the event scared the bejeezus out of her and she high-tailed it outta there ASAP.She said it was the loudest sound she had ever heard.

Between Grand Central terminal (railroad), The United Nations complex and the Israeli Consulate right there [all prime targets], ya dont walk when ya hear *KAOOM* ya RUN.

 

[sudsmaster]

Manhattan is normally 2 to 3 *F warmer

Interesting stuff, Toggs. I have read that most cities are a degree or two warmer than the surrounding areas because all the concrete and pavement tends to trap heat, whereas greenery tends to cool the air by virtue of the constant evaporation of water from the leaf surfaces. Plus some of the solar energy is turned into organic matter.

In any case, I hadn't thought of the problems involved with heating and cooling a skyscraper with conventional gas fired boilers. This is probably why most skyscrapers (or what passes for one out here) I've seen on the west coast have little annexes at ground level where the boilers etc. are sited - so that they can vent the exhaust without having to go up 40 or more stories. I guess there's enough room out here to do that, whereas in Manhattan every square foot of the earth's surface is of limited availability, esp. in the more "desirable" areas.

I last visited Manhattan in 1974. I was pleasantly surprised that the various intriguing aromas I had experienced as a child when we visited came right back to me. Esp. down by the waterfront at Battery street (on the way to see the Statue). But the din at night - even on the 9th floor of an apartment building - during the summer with the windows open - amazed me. To me it was like living under a freeway!. Eventually I got used to it, though, until it was time to hightail it back to the left coast.

 

[toggleswitch]

Yes, I had not thought of all those surfaces being warmed by the sun as well.

I worked on the 78th floor of the Empire State Buildng not too long ago. It is an older building with now very rare OPERABLE windows. Due to the height the building, the heating system (city steam source) is a TWO-PIPE steam- [blow and suck.] This helps gets the steam where it needs to be without exessive pressure in the building.

The cental air-condtioning was added later, and as you stated, is located adjacent to the subject property. Due to the cost of the land and (old) improvements [buildngs] that A/C system must have cost dearly.