Max volume of water in a modern FL?

[warmsecondrinse]

What is the average maximum amount/volume of water in a modern Fl at any one time? I'm interested primarily in the under-counter, dishwasher sized units like the LG 2.4, 2.7 models and their latest combos of 3.? and 4.3 cu.ft.

Also, what would be the average max water volumes in a typical dishwasher and typical TL washer of the mid-60's?

Why am I asking? For those of you who don't know, in December I moved into a co-op building that went up in the mid-60's. As I understand it, washers were verboten from the start as large amount of water in a typical TL washer posed a flood risk and having that amount of emptied abruptly would not be good for the pipes. DISHwashers were always allowed because smaller amounts of water were involved.

The topic came up a few times during the looking/paperwork/move-in process. I pointed out that modern FL washers, especially the dishwasher sized (24") units, not only use much less water overall but have much less in them at any one time. The response I got was an eye-roll and a patient, "We know. We're working on it." since I'm known to at least a few past and current board members as someone who has at least some knowledge/interest in washers, I might be asked for some hard info at some point.

I'd like to be a voice of reason and information (Stop laughing, Toggles!) and have some numbers on hand to show that having FL, at least the smaller ones, would not pose any more problems than the dishwashers of the 60's.

I've searched the web and even written LG. So far I have nothing. Any ideas? Even suggestions of where to look would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Jim

 

[appnut]

I would say 3-5 gallons at most per fill.  Water won't come up as high as the window. 

 

[yogitunes]

what I find odd is while checking these sites for different brands, the most thye stress is energy consumption, and how little they use....even with an electric or gas water heater....
a
but what your looking for, and they wont post is how much water....per fill?, per cycle?

the most average I know of is 22 gallons......that usually involves the normal cycle....wash and 3 rinses....you have to tack in some water added to dispense additives, as well as some added for flushing out suds and sediment during a drain...

for most, factor in, such as a Calypso, saturating the load, and then add about 3 gallons to slosh around....give or take per model...per fill

if you want, when you visit this weekend, take one of the Neptunes and we can stick a drain hose in a bucket, and measure how much water was used for a cycle.....this would be an average if you will, as todays machines are now using less....

if you remember we did this with the Calypso the last time....just under 3 gallons per drain....if I recall, we got 15 gallons for a whole load...

 

[washerdude]

Brands such as whirlpool and maytag no longer use an adjustable pressure switch. Modern duets and maxima's use electronic pressure switches which can't be set at all. My new duet has an electronic one but I will say, it uses a decent ammount of water.

 

[aamassther]

Miele 3038...

This is from page 30, "cleaning the drain pump and lint trap",

^ Turn the lint trap lid counterclockwise. Do not remove it. About 2 quarts (2 liters) of water will drain out of the hose.
If the main drain hose is clogged, water will be retained in the machine (a maximum amount of 6.5 gal [25 l]).

This is from the Bosch Axxis plus manual:

Use the pull-out drain hose located in the pump access opening to drain the remaining water into a suitable container (up to 5.3 U.S. gallons/20 liters of water may be drained). Pull the sealing cap from the hose and lay the hose over the side of the container and allow the water to finish draining from the drum. When finished, replace the sealing cap into the end of the hose and restore the hose to its storage location.

HTH, Todd

 

[Marky_Mark]

For a Euro-sized washer that you're talking about, I'd say a wash will typically use around 10-20 litres and a rinse typically between 15-25 litres. 30 litres at the most for a rinse. Total water useage per cycle typically between 50-100 litres. But the important thing for you is the discharge rate. They discharge quite slowly -- about the same as a dishwasher.

A modern Euro or US dishwasher uses around 3-4 litres per fill. Older ones used 5-7 litres per fill. Total consumption of a modern dishwasher is usually 10-25 litres per cycle. Older ones around 30 litres. American dishwashers of the 60s I think could be 30-60 litres per cycle due mainly to more water changes per cycle.

Traditional American toploaders used around 70-90 litres per fill for a full load depending on the machine. But I think they discharged it very quickly -- far faster than an Euro-sized front loader or a dishwasher. So I can see the concern about the drain not being able to accept the discharge rate of a traditional TL but I doubt it would be a problem for a modern Euro-sized FL.

 

[yogitunes]

one other thing that may come into consideration.....

for a dishwasher.....you may run a load, every other day, maybe only 2 or 3 times a week tops!....

for a washer....you may be running several loads in a day, and again, maybe every other day.....

but in reality, don't see it being much more volume/rate at a time than a dishwasher....

besides, there are plenty of apartment complexes running portable to full size units in them, and there doesn't seem to be an issue......and I don't buy the idea, that it wasn't originally designed for it......where I grew up, Automatic machines were not installed.....before long, everyone had one.....and this all fed into one 4 inch pipe running down all the back yards...for a numerous amount of homes......we had 24 half doubles on our block alone...and never had a back up from it not handling the extra water...

 

[iheartmaytag]

Can't speak for the smaller units

But my Maytag/Duet clone 4.4Cu ft. The manual says it uses from 12 to 18 gals per normal cycle. What I see in a load of bath towels with normal wash two rinses is about 6 gal per fill.

 

[warmsecondrinse]

Thanks all, for your input. I'll re check these numbers, but tentatively I'll go with 5-6 gallons at any one time in a Euro-sized FL.

This weekend I'll run a load or 2 in a machine from the 60's, measure the drain output and time it to get a gpm.

I figure a FL will take approx the same time to drain so I'll have a much lower gpm figure for them.

The point is that the figures will be much closer to those of a dishwasher than those of the washers in mind when the policy was made.

Does anyone see a problem with my logic?

Thanks,

Jim

 

[Marky_Mark]

I'd say your logic is sound

I just tested my Miele front load Euro washer. I can accurately say that its discharge rate is 22 litres/minute (6 US GPM). I think this is pretty typical.

If you fill up the kitchen sink (let alone the bathtub!) and then let out the water, I'd say the discharge rate and volume of water would be way in excess of a Euro-sized FL washer! So as well as trying to argue that they are in-line with a dishwasher, try arguing that they are less than a bathtub or sink draining.

Almost all British households (97%) have a washing machine (and 60% have a dryer), and that includes apartments in very old buildings. So it must be possible and I've never heard of any restrictions. I think in the USA around 85% have both and 15% have neither.

Good luck in making your case against this outdated, draconian restrition!

Mark

 

[warmsecondrinse]

Thank you all...

... for your help. Between you guys and what I picked up at Martin's Wash-In last weekend I feel sufficiently well-armed for when the time comes.

Thanks again,

Jim