Maytag A207 starting problem?

[LaVidaBoem]

Digital Meter VS. Analog

Hey all,

The reason you need the analog hand sweep meter is that during start, the needle will sweep fast and fall back to the run position.
The RATE of the movement of the meter needle is crucial in determining the problem.
You cannot (human eyes) read a digital meter fast enough to know the problem.

Hope this Helps,

LaVidaBoem

 

[kb0nes]

Digital Meter VS. Analog

No doubt that digital meters make following trends more difficult, but your generalization isn't really fair.

I bought my first DMM in 1981 (Fluke 77) I now have 4 others along with it (all flukes, all digital). With the exception of my HP distortion analyzer, and some RF bench instruments, I don't own any analog meters anymore and I don't miss them.

Half decent DMM's today have much faster response and even the inexpensive models have a responsive bargraph to watch trends.

And in fact, all but my oldest DMM will do a Minimum/Maximum recording (something analog won't do). For this application you plug in the meter, start the motor then read the minimum voltage, slick!! It works really well for testing cranking voltage on vehicles too.

In short any meter will troubleshoot Dustin's line voltage under starting load, he has a second or two after all.

 

[dustin92]

All I've got as far as a multimeter is a cheapie (freebie!) digital one from Harbor freight. Will give it a try and see if it works. Should I just set it to AC volts and shove the probes in a socket on the same circuit? Last time I checked we were running about 118v.

 

[combo52]

You NEED a motor start capacitor, I can't believe how long this is is being drug out, it will make a big difference whether your problem is low voltage, or a less than perfect motor carriage and drive belt.

 

[LaVidaBoem]

I couldn't agree more...

But,
Do you think the average member can wire in a start capacitor?
And yes, there are many dmm that would have fancy stuff, like my snap-ons, but for 10 dollars, he could have a old analog, right?

OK, we have beat this one enough,

Dustin, hope you getter' done!

LaVidaBoem

 

[dustin92]

With instructions I'm pretty sure I can wire in a capacitor, it's just wired in line with the start winding, right? If someone could put me in the right direction of what capacitor I need to use and what wire it needs to be wired into, I think I could manage that.

 

[tolivac]

Did the motor in question originally have a start cap?If not just adding one may not help with a motor that didn't originally have a start cap.And the problem of wiring it into the circuit.I feel that a low voltage problem may be here-poor wiring-the person says that the circuit has old cabling.And the connections on the outlet may be a fault,too.Agree on the meters-new digital meters with hold functions are easier to track trends than an analog meter you have to watch-and your eyes still may not be fast enough to see the drop on the meter unless the meter has a heavly dampted movement.Newer digital clamp ammeters like the voltmeters have min-max hold functions.Makes you want to leave the ol' Simpson 260 in the toolbox!Oh on the cap if the motor orig had one-maybe-just maybe the one you have is bad or weak.And is the transmission or spin function of the washer turn easy by hand?How bout the pump-not jammed?Any of those will lug down your motor and stall it if they are bad.

 

[combo52]

Does Anyone Read My Posts?

I said that MT offered an service capacitor kit for this and ANY MT DC two belt washer that did not originally come with one just for SITUATIONS like this.

 

It is very hard to cure a slightly low voltage problem like this in a home, you all can debate about bad outlets, wiring loading of circuits all month long but none of it will make any real difference.

 

I have been dealing with problems like this every working day in peoples homes for around 40 years now.

 

You can simply use the motor start capacitor from any WP built DD washer for instance, it will not harm the motor or the start winding, you could even wire in two capacitors in parallel with each other for an extra kick.

 

To wire in the capacitor you remove the wire at the motor going to the start winding and plug it on one of the terminals of the SC then take another piece of wire and go from the other terminal of the SC and back to the motor.

 

Dustin, you can always contact me if you have any questions, John L.

 

[alr2903]

John, would a "start capacitor" help?

 

[dustin92]

This is all getting confusing to me, I'm getting different stories from every direction, and I'm not sure where to start. I might take a look at the motor glides and make sure everything is moving smoothly, then? Not a clue form there. The washer is still working fine, as long as there's no other high draw appliance running on the same circuit. I've done several loads without issues.

 

[arbilab]

... different stories ...

Did you say FUSE? Well there's your problem. That house was wired for appliances that use roughly 1/3 the amps houses are now wired for.

Microwaves and color TVs hadn't been invented yet. EVERYthing about that wiring-- except for radios, lamps and fans-- is marginal. Keep your fire extinguishers and smoke alarm batteries up to date!

Tune up the washer, and don't run anything else at the same time. Ideally, consult an electrician about bringing the high-load areas of the house like laundry and kitchen up to code. You CANNOT do this yourself without invalidating your homeowner's insurance.

 

[kenwashesmonday]

The only thing wrong with fuses is that someone may replace one with a higher amp fuse. A 15 amp circuit is a 15 amp circuit, and washing machines had the same size motors back in the fuse era.

Circuit breakers can get weak and fail. If you blow a fuse, you're starting with a brand new fuse.

 

[cuffs054]

Given the choice I too think fuses are safer.

 

[fester]

Old school electrical

Check out those "upgraded" 3 prong outlets! I was changing a damaged outlet and found that only the outlet itself had been upgraded. It was hooked to old style 2 conductor wire with no ground. My house, while newish (1974), must have been wired by Thibodeaux and Boudreaux after a 12 pack. The 115V outlet behind the stove, the overhead in the living room, both in the front of the house are on the same breaker as the overhead in the master bedroom in the rear and the light for the out door closet off of the carport. Can you dig it? I can't wash clothes and run the dishwasher at the same time either. Take nothing for granted! I will look into that start capacitor for sure.

 

[alr2903]

Seriously, is a start capacitor the thing they sometimes wire into a refrigerator compressor to make it last a while longer?  Art

 

[arbilab]

I think the 'fuse' point was missed

There is nothing inherently wrong with fuses. Other than blowing one when you have no spares, and as above, the enduser installing the wrong value.

But the transition from fuses to breakers was a very significant breakpoint in how the electrical code dealt with distribution of much higher loads much more representative of today's demands upon home wiring.

BTW, operating a microwave on a socket that is not 'really' grounded is extremely hazardous.

 

[combo52]

Start Capacitors For Older Refrigerators

Yes a SC can be added to some refrigerators to make the compressor start more reliably under low voltage conditions, or cases where the sealed system does not balance out fast enough, or the compressor is a little tight etc.

 

[kenwashesmonday]

The fuse point was not missed.

As long as you keep the right fuse in the right spot, there is no need to panic, it does not mean that your house will burn down any minute.

I remember when I was a kid, the family around the block had a refrigerator with hot chassis. When you were hanging out in their kitchen, you learned rather quickly not to hold the handle on the refrigerator and the kitchen faucet at the same time. Nobody died.

Ken D.

 

[LaVidaBoem]

Thibodeaux, Boudreaux, and a 6 Pack!!

Man, I am going to come see you...

I think we could have a Ball...or Two...!

Yea, as I walk thru the house I used to own...
Wired wrong...Ree-Verse Polarity!!

You didn't want stand on the front porch in your sock-feet, fiddle with the light switch, and touch one of the faceplate screws...

You would do a little jiggle, and let a few choice verbs fly!!

As one of the other posters said,...about the 'frider-E-dater' and the spigot..."NOBODY died"....

We're Dealin'.

LaVidaBoem

 

[askolover]

"I remember when I was a kid, the family around the block had a refrigerator with hot chassis. When you were hanging out in their kitchen, you learned rather quickly not to hold the handle on the refrigerator and the kitchen faucet at the same time. Nobody died. "

We had the same problem in our house when I was a kid...but it was the Kitchenaid KDS17A that was the culprit...and it was installed by the dealer!  If one touched the dishwasher AND either the fridge or the kitchen sink/faucet one would feel quite the jolt.  My dad ended up installing a better ground for it and we haven't been shocked since and Mom is on her 3rd dishwasher and 3rd fridge.


 

Before I was a nurse I worked with electricity.  When daddy built his new music studio I wired the electrical panel for him.  I personally think fuses are safer too.  My paternal grandfather had a breaker panel that was installed in his house when it was built.  One of the breakers stuck and his AC/Furnace package unit burned up!  My dad refuses to upgrade their fuse panel to breakers...he built the house in '68.  My house was built in '56 with fuses.  At the time, EVERYTHING was electric and at some point the owners overloaded everything causing some melted wires at the panel.  The owner at some point in time worked for the gas company and he removed every major electricity consuming appliance and replaced them with gas, except for the AC.  So now, this house's largest power consumer is still the AC...and that circuit never gets warm.