Miele ditches stainless steel tubs on even more models

[henene4]

Miele launched their entry line machines with their sealed, plastic tubs a few years ago.
These models used to be the Wxx0xx models, all 7kg.

Now Miele launched the 125th anniversary special models for washers.
They are labelled with "8kg" and SteamCare - which used to label only machines with a seperate steam generator.
They offer a separate "Refresh" cycle, so I checked the parts list.

And it appears now even 8kg models with perfectly "normal" Miele naming can be plastic, sealed tub machines.
For upwards of 1000€.

Oh, and SteamCare is no longer SteamCare since these entry models don't have a steam generator.

Miele lists the sealed tub unit as "Not as spare part".
So, you might end up with an unrepairable machine by design - FROM MIELE.

Apparently really desperate times...

 

[combo52]

Sealed plastic outer tub on Miele

New front load washers, this isn’t surprising they only claim their machines are good for 10,000 loads anyway.

It is a little surprising that they won’t even make the part available, imagine if you had a very nice laundry installation with a matching dryer and you were told in six or seven years you couldn’t even fix your washing machine I think this sort of goes against right to repair laws that’s for sure.

Whirlpool does this on their large front loaders but at least you can buy the entire tub assembly it’s around $800 so obviously almost nobody would do it but at least you have the ability of possibly repair. The other thing I hate about the plastic outer tubs is the material is not recyclable, that’s one of the wonderful things about the Speed Queen front load washers is there’s almost no plastic in the machine so when it does reach the end of it’s useful life, 90% of the machine can be reused by recycling the metal.

Even though Miele it’s going more mainstream in construction quality. The brand is not gonna become mainstream because they’re so proprietary about parts and who can service and install them, I guess if they get into some big box stores, like Home Depot and Lowe’s they might actually gain some sales.

John

 

[appnut]

Miele does have a model or two of each washer, dryer, and dishwashers at Lowes. Almost 2 years. Unique combination of features. I don't consider these to be legitimate true Miele products.

 

[foraloysius]

Link to the Miele appliances at Lowes

https://www.lowes.com/search?searchTerm=miele washer and dryer

 

[logixx]

I guess we're seeing it here.

 

[henene4]

That machine is one of the "small" machines with the 56l drum though.

You see a short glimpse of the drum and it has the triangular lifters with holes, not the rounded solid ones.

 

[launderess]

It's a "promotion" in aid of Miele's 125th anniversary. Maybe machines will be around after that, maybe not.

Miele has long used a fiberglass hybrid called Glaron K for outer suds containers. It isn't plastic and is same substance used for hulls of very expensive yachts. So that's something anyway.

MO here seems to be for Miele offering a higher end washer at lower promotional price point. To do this something had to give somewhere, and one such thing was stainless steel outer suds container.

"The anniversary models from the 125 Gala Edition also offer considerable benefits in terms of features and accessories. One highlight is the WCI 890 WPS 125 Gala Edition washing machine to be introduced in March at a price of € 1,679**. It has a maximum load capacity of 9 kg, a spin speed of 1600 rpm and the top A energy efficiency class. Furthermore, this model features the TwinDos liquid dispensing system and highly efficient PowerWash technology. SteamCare is an extra on top: This function is ideal for smoothing and freshening up laundry items to rid them of odours and was previously the preserve of flagship models."

https://m.miele.de/en/m/125-years-o...omotional-models-in-anniversary-year-7061.htm

https://www.euronics.de/haus-und-ha...aschine-frontlader-lotosweiss-a-4065327835830

https://www.immer-besser.de/miele-waschmaschine-wci-860-wps.html

Purists will always prefer SS inner and outer tubs, but market forces including material costs simply dictate even TOL products must make choices.

https://www.washerhelp.co.uk/forums...achines-with-plastic-vs-stainless-steel-tubs/

Electrolux/Zanussi patent for "plastic" outer tub is interesting.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US5419164A/en

BSH also has patents for "plastic" outer suds container, they reference previous state of art by Miele, Electrolux and many others.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20100192640/tr[this post was last edited: 3/2/2024-12:45]

 

[launderess]

"It is a little surprising that they won’t even make the part available, imagine if you had a very nice laundry installation with a matching dryer and you were told in six or seven years you couldn’t even fix your washing machine I think this sort of goes against right to repair laws that’s for sure."

Cannot speak to what happens across the pond or elsewhere in world but far as USA is concerned very few owners of Miele washers undertake major repair work.

If bearings go, issues with tub, or whatever that cannot (or should not) be done in home setting Miele will pack up washer and ship it back to their shops in New Jersey. If machine is still under warranty Miele will pick up tab for transport to and from NJ, parts, labor IIRC. If not and customer really wants work done they will have to fork over.

My guess is given how lean Miele North American divisions have become they've ceased stockpiling large numbers of parts that (in their estimate) rarely will be used.

If a machine needs repair and service person does not have part in his stash, nor is it in Miele's warehouses it can be ordered from Germany.

My guess is number of customers requesting things like tubs and some other major bits for DIY repair is rather small. So why would Miele spend all that money shipping such things (tubs aren't small) and then storing them "just in case". Again if said part is required Miele can simply have it sent from Europe.

Side stepping whole issue if a washer or other appliance is still under warranty (or maybe just slightly out of it) and requires major repair Miele often will just swap out failed appliance with a new one of customer's choice.

 

[launderess]

I want to say one word, just one word; plastics!

*LOL*



If you look at world of appliances in 1967 (year film "the Graduate" was released) compared to modern times, plastics of all sorts have made huge inroads and changes.

Refrigerator interiors, washing machine tubs (both inner and outer), dishwasher tubs (ditto), and so much more have largely gone over to plastics.

Yes, you can still find metal (usually stainless steel), but how often to you find enameled porcelain on steel?

 

[launderess]

Furthermore

Miele is offering a pretty expansive warranty period across board for all items in this 125th anniversary promotion.

"Across all products, an exclusive 125-week extended warranty applies to all 125 Gala Edition models. This applies in addition to the statutory 2-year guarantee. Hence, in total, guarantee cover on these anniversary models amounts to the 2-year guarantee plus an additional 125 weeks. This is on the condition that the extension is activated via the Miele app during the promotional period."

If something is going to fail on a major appliance it normally will do so out of gate or early on. After two years and about four months if anything is going to happen statistically it would have by then.

 

[launderess]

"The brand is not gonna become mainstream because they’re so proprietary about parts and who can service and install them, "

Things may vary in North America, but in Europe or elsewhere it isn't unheard of for manufacturers to limit information and or sometimes even parts to qualified persons.

https://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/foru...867587-most-easily-repairable-washing-machine

Even when manufacturer parts can be sourced they often are quite dear in price. Happily there are sources for aftermarket parts.

Miele spares are often dear no matter who one purchases things from, that is unless one is lucky to find someone on fleaPay or similar sites offering things cheaply.

https://www.ersatzteilwelt.com/epag...archProducts&SearchString=Miele&SearchButton=

https://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/foru...867587-most-easily-repairable-washing-machine

Miele USA for sometime now has offered repair services by "factory trained independent" persons. Well at least in our area anyway. Quality of those independent service persons does seem to vary. Best are former Miele techs who have gone out on their own. We had a great one years ago, but he could no longer be bothered and closed up shop.

 

[qsd-dan]

The name of that game these days around the globe.

Cheapen the product then increase its price. More profit in parts or another machine down the not-so-distant road.

I'll just keep running my tried and true vintage stuff.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

not slowing down

I don't see it slowing down anytime soon.

 

[combo52]

Miele we’ll never become mainstream in the US

Unless they start making full-size appliances, it’s a very niche market most people want full-size washers and dryers even their dishwashers don’t hold with the US models do.

The only full size appliances they sell, are their built-in refrigerators, which are made here in North America, but they don’t compete well with subzero, GE monogram, or KitchenAid on quality and performance. They have too many problems. I see far too many of them being replaced.

It also seems that Miele often just chooses to replace appliances rather than fixing them but that’s a very expensive thing to do on an expensive product in the first place. It also gives the impression that their products aren’t fixable.

Speed Queen will continue to offer stainless steel outer tubs, because Speed Queen is the only washer and dryer that is completely based on a commercial design, it’s just like Hobart in the old days when they made KitchenAid dishwashers.

John

 

[gelaundry4ever]

ditching stainless steel

So why are they ditching stainless steel? Why are they going to plastic tubs? There's no way that plastic will EVER hold up in a front load washer unless it's highly durable.

 

[DADoES]

 
Jerome, the outer tub is what's discussed here as changing to plastic, not the spin basket.  As you are aware, plastic outer tubs have been on frontloaders (and toploaders) for years.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

outer tubs

I am very well aware of plastic tubs as far as the outer tubs were concerned. I was concerned about the inner tubs.

 

[henene4]

No, drums will never (with current plastics technology, and that has been largely explored over the last century) be made from plastic.

A typical 10lbs load spinning at 500g extraction force "weighs" more than a car.

You can support that with plastic, but at material thicknesses that are ridiculous.
It's cheaper and easier to make that from thin metal sheet material welded into shape.

There is a lot to be said about bearings not being replaced in the field and if so, the cost not being dramatically different between a sealed tub unit and other designs if done by a service tech.

However, the plastic tub isn't the problem.
The problem is that you CAN design plastic tubs to be splitable. It is slightly more expensive and more work, but certainly doable.
LG still does it in the EU.

And if I pay 1000+€ for a machine, I DO think it's reasonable to ask for some repairability at all.
Especially if you DO price yourself with 10-15 parts availability.
If you make it a sealed unit, make it available.

 

[logixx]

Plastic drum

Well, there was this thing.

Monotub Titan Washing Machine (2001)

The Titan washing machine was brought to the UK market by Monotub Industries Plc in 2001, the inventor of this machine was Martin Myerscough.

www.flickr.com