Miele straying away from god

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From a US market point of view though, plenty of European players don't step outside of Europe. I mean the EU is an $18.8 trillion economy that's roughly 18% of the world's economy and from the likes of Miele's point of view it's their domestic market. Most of Europe's economy is domestic and is trade with itself - much as most of the US economy is like that. They're both enormous, highly developed mixed consumer economies.

You can go a long time in the US without seeing a Renault or a Citroen car, yet those are huge brands in the EU and elsewhere and are highly successful companies. You can go a long time in Europe without ever seeing a GM car. In fact, GM sold off their European brand Opel (Vauxhall badged in the UK).

The same applies to plenty of US and Asian companies and if you throw in the current turbulence with Trump's chaotic approach to trade and tarrifs, it's even less attractive to invest there when you could focus domestically in Europe and into Asian markets where the EU has a growing number of comprehensive trade deals and you've a booming consumer economy with big spenders at the upper end who are well within Miele's niche.

Miele isn't a publicly quoted company. It's part of the privately owned, family owned business that is basically part of the traditional German 'Mittelstand' (the small and medium businesses that tend to be family owned or owned by groups of private investors, often including employees) and is EXTREMELY unlikely to ever be sold off or to be subject to any kind of merger or acquisition. It can play very long games and doesn't have to impress with quarterly results.

Over stretching into a market it can't properly serve would be a big problem and I think that's kind of what they did with the US specific models. It's a physically huge market and they've a small share. So, getting things like service agent networks rolled out in every state isn't easy as they're going to be rather expensive to keep on board with such a niche brand in laundry etc.

The reality is they can serve most Asia with basically the exact same machines as they sell domestically in Europe. The only localisation language but the US market has both electrical differences a expectations of larger machines etc. So there's a lot more localisation involved.

I could see Miele still just keeping a toe in the North American market and focusing on where they're strongest. You build on your strengths, not chase after areas where you're structurally weak - like trying to take a chunk of a highly price competitive market where you're a very niche upper end player.

The biggest challenge Miele is probably facing right now is from Samsung and LG in Europe. They've pushed into that €1000+ washer and dryers space which is the area Miele absolutely owned for decades. That's where their big challenge is in laundry anyway.

My view of their brand is they should be pushing the ecological aspect of their extremely long lived appliances. I see little or no focus on the fact that their machines tend to outlast anything else and are usually highly repairable.

If Miele went after the high spending power, ecologically focused consumers more directly, I think they may actually do a lot better than just trying to chase middle or the road or snob brand values. They've an unusually good product and they really could leverage it more.
 
Miele probably has decided to go down the plastic tub route (polypropylene reinforced with glass beads) due to shipping/transit tariffs. Isn't it the case that quality heavy machines are penalised?

And I suppose too, that forming the plastic tubs will be easier and cheaper than buying expensive steel.

I dare say that Miele's plastic tubs will be more substantial than some of the others. I had a Chinese made Panasonic, and the outer tub was pretty much transparent. I remember reading an engineer's comment somewhere, where they bemoaned UK Hotpoint's outer tub being so thin that it was virtually see-through. This was around the early 2000's.
 
As has been said, Miele has had plastic tubs so far on their TLs for like 15 years or more.

They are not new.

And they have been proven to be just fine. No mold, no structural issues, no bearing issues.

And while I think this machine will sell well I do think that this is more like a model you can easily upsell from.

And further I doubt that they would dare to launch anything sub par. They are still Miele.

They have a second model in that new line that does still have 1600rpm with the larger full metal construction that is like 200€ bucks more expensive yet has the TwinDos feature.
 
Plastic outer tubs In FL Washers

Are actually much heavier [ weight wise ] than SS, probably the worst thing about plastic is it does not get recycled when the machine is crushed for recycling.

 

One of the other bad things about plastic is it has a lot of deep pockets and ribs on the back of the tubs for strength and these can get filled with minerals and other gunk leading to odors and spider failures.

 

I guess that SQ FL washers will soon be the only 50 year durability washers available  for the masses in the US soon.

 

John L.
 
"Are actually much heavier [ weight wise ] than SS..."

Are they? The original posting says it is 5 kg lighter.
 
Well, there are pluses and minuses to using plastic versus stainless steel. The machines would be a little lighter, but also the resources involved in making large stainless steel components are huge in terms of energy input, mining and so on. If the plastic is recoverable or even safely incinerated in waste-to-energy it's actually potentially lower impact.

In a typical Miele washer life span, you're also talking 1 plastic drum in maybe 10 to 20 years. All the synthetic fibres that a machine washes and some of the components in the detergents would probably be of a lot more impact.

I mean in the life time of the machine, you'll have definitely used FAR more plastic in even the packaging for your washing liquids and softeners than would be contained in the entire washing machine's components.

Plastic drums, designed well don't have internal pockets and ribs, they put them all on the outside.

I'd assume you'd also have some degree of better heat retention for long washes, so might cut down on element heating time during the cycle.

The use of very heavy cast iron counter weights however is one of Miele's trade mark difference and I'd hope that certainly wouldn't' be replaced with blocks of concrete.
 
Plastic Outer Tubs In FL washers

SS is simply much stronger for a given weight than plastic.

Hi James, you are correct that plastic outer tubs can be designed with the ribs on the outside or inside, I found these examples in our shop of building them both ways, I guess it would be interesting to see how Miele is doing it on this new model.

While it puts overall plastic use context comparing plastic bottles used in the life of a washer to the plastic used to build the outer tub, it simply does not justify using a plastic tub. Metals used in appliances are fully recycled back into new very high quality products.

Hi Louis, I don't think that you can compare the overall weight of two different model machines and conclude that the difference is do to a plastic outer tub, there are 100 other things that could have been made lighter in a washer, just a better computer balance control and better shocks would allow taking that much weight away from the counterbalance weights.

John L.[this post was last edited: 1/12/2020-21:22]

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Sorry for such a late revival

So, due to some issues in my current flat share I am moving soon (probably before the end of February).

Already bought a DW (got an insane deal on a great machine due to a kind-of but not really pricing error)

But I have to buy a kitchen, so I pre-ordered a countertop (the cabinets will be delivered).

Doing that I had an hour to waste before heading to a doctors appointment so I grabbed a bite to eat and headed to the 2nd big electronics chain here in town (expert Bening).

Walked through the DW isle.

Checked out some machines I considered before.
Lucky I didn't go with the freestanding Samsung I was considering (spaceing there was horrific, upper rack only had 2 positions and the lower one was to low for my plates, the upper one far to high).
The Bauknecht might have been an ok option, but reliability is questionable.
The one I got is perfectly fine for the price I paid for.

Now I walked through the washer isle and looked at some Mieles.

And found something I wasn't aware off.

Miele has a second drum with Novotronic style drum lifters.
Same triangle shap, ribs and holes.

It is smaller (probably 55l or there abouts).
Used on machines with 7 and 8 kg.
And even on machines with the pre ironing option.

Didn't suspect that.

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