Miele W1 owners

[launderess]

John L.

Yes I know that, and you know that; but Henkel/Dial makes no mention of water hardness when dosing Persil. Just "regular" or "large/heavily soiled" loads (about 75 ml).

In fact looking bottles of Tide and few other modern detergents in my collection none of them mention water hardness. Vintage products are another matter.

My point is the average consumer will go by what is on label, not necessarily factoring in water hardness.

Ironically my German Henkel Persil gel recommends 53ml for "soft" water and light soil, along with 73ml for hard water. Dosages go up from there based upon soil level (normal, heavy and extra heavy) and or soft water. Extra heavy soil in soft water suggested dose is a whopping 155ml, and 175ml for hard. My machines would choke to death on the froth.

Happily learned years ago to ignore dosage directions for European laundry detergents, especially from Germany. Most water on that side of pond even when "soft" is still harder that what I've got coming out of taps.

 

[launderess]

@ Logixx

Whatever recommended detergent dosage would be the range one would set the UltraPhase one to I reckon. That is (depending upon variables) if detergent dosage was 42ml, something around that number.

Ultraphase 2 is a bleach, so one would have to decide what product to used instead (if subsituting) or just go with Miele's presets if using their product.

Miele uses less oxygen bleach for colored loads which is natural to protect from damage that any bleach can cause to colors.

 

[brisnat81]

In the AU versions, you set the dispensed amount seperately for Phase 1 and 2 containers.

You also set whether they contain Phase 1 and Phase 2 detergents, or Regular detergent and fabric softener, if your using refillables. When you start a cycle, you chose between whites and colours, or whether you want Detergent and/or fabric softener.

For our water hardness, when the service guy was here, he dropped the Phase 2 detergent level down to 28ml as that is generally plenty apparently. We get 6 months out of a cartridge, so it hasnt been a big impost yet.

 

[jerrod_six]

I have had the W1 with the Twin Dos since last January. The Dosages listed in the manual are way too high for the water conditions in many states in the USA. I live in Pennsylvania and have never used that much detergent. In the settings, you first indicate what your normal type of loads will be, always light soil, or Normal or heavy. You set the dosages for Phase 1 which is the detergent with 8 enzymes, and Phase 2 which is hydrogen peroxide, alcohol, and brightener. I think I read that the hydrogen peroxide % is higher than the standard 3% you can buy. You set these in mls. From the manual, you can see that phase 2 is 75% of phase 1 so you can adjust it that way or whatever way you want to.

I washed a few loads until I was satisfied that I was getting clean clothes and good rinsing. I currently use 17 mils of phase 1 and 15 mls of phase 2. 15 mls use about 1 tablespoon full. It will depend on your water hardness.

When you start a load the washer will use whatever value you set for your normal usage. For Example
I have my settings set to use Normal loads, so the machine will mix phase 1 and phase 2 according to what you set them to. You can override the settings for that run if you want to by setting the soil level between light, normal, or heavy. If you set it to heavy a bit more will be used, if you set it to light a bit less will be used. It is correct that the machine will mix the two and will also mix differently if you select white items. It will mix 50/50 for whites and for colors it will dispense only 35% of phase 2 the hydrogen peroxide.

With my usage phase1 lasts me more than 7 months, and phase 2 lasts close to a year, so you are not running through bottles and bottles of the stuff. I also use my own detergent. I mix them up. Sometimes I use Twin Dos, other times I use Persil for colors or Persil for whites, or USA liquid Persil, and sometimes I use laundress.

There is one thing with this machine and that is that you need to use warm to hot water. It does not like too many cold washes in a row. If you do it will display an information message recommending that you run a 140F wash or do a sanitize which is at 167F. The owners manual states that using liquid detergent with frequent cold washes causes mold and smells to occur, so this warning is to prevent that. You will not be prevented from running cold water washes but you will keep getting the messages.

I use warm(104F) and cold(86) for a few types of clothes but the rest of my washes are done at 122F or 50C and the Extra Whites cycle which only has one temperature setting and that is 140F.

I think the reason Miele does not want people using their own detergent is that people will be putting chlorine bleach in them. The machine will allow you to single-dose it in the detergent cup, but you will have to turn that on in the settings. From my usages, I have not used chlorine bleach in a machine since the year 2000 and I don't miss it. I do use a detergent with oxygen bleach for whites, or the Twin Dos detergent and don't really need the bleach.

 

[sudsmaster]

Miele W1918 vs Neptune 7500 (corrected)

OK, remember that I stated I could fit five bath sheets in the Neptune 7500. Actually six will squeeze in, but it's been my experience that the Neptune has problems with that load, repeatedly trying and failing to do a final spin, so I've had to limit it to five bath sheets per load.

Today I tried washing same bath sheets in the Miele W1918. It is described in the technical manual as having a 5 kg load capacity (11 lb). I was able to fit in four bath sheets in the W1918. The last one was sort of a tight squeeze; I didn't even try to load a fifth bath sheet into it (bath sheets are basically oversize bath towels). The Miele W1918 didn't complain at all about this load, although I didn't witness the final spin. The towels seemed to come out relatively devoid of excess moisture.

For comparison, I weighed what four and five such bath sheets come to:

Four bath sheets: <span style="text-decoration: line-through; color: #ff0000;">10.6 lb, or about 4.8 kg</span> 7.5 lb, or about 3.4 kg

Five bath sheets: <span style="text-decoration: line-through; color: #ff0000;">12.4 lb, or about 5.6 kg</span> 9.5 lb, or about  4.3 kg

 

(The corrections are needed because I forgot to subtract the weight of the laundry basket... duh... plus the electronic scale I was using would only register weight if I stood on it holding the hamper plus towels. I will spare you further details on that. Plus, the Neptune can fit six bath sheets, it just can't handle balancing that load for the spin too well. I think part of that problem, in addition to the Neptune suspension, may be related to the relatively huge paddles inside the Neptune, which may interfere with the even distribution of a load of large items like bath sheets. The Miele has much smaller paddles or fins, and thus may be more adept at that task.)
 
Clearly five bath sheets would be <span style="text-decoration: line-through; color: #ff0000;">beyond</span> within the W1918's load capacity of 5 kg. And, by this empirical method, the load capacity of the Neptune 7500 is about <span style="text-decoration: line-through; color: #ff0000;">6</span> 5 kg. Similar (not) to the W1926, W1986, and perhaps some later Miele models. I *could* maybe have squeezed a fifth bath sheet into the W1918; I just didn't want to stress out the door etc. Evidently towels, being fluffy, take up more space, than, say, plain cotton fabrics of same weight.

I did some googling of other current Miele models... and it's a bewildering array. The same model number, W1, can have multiple versions. Then there are the Amazon listings that apparently can only be shipped to Israel (?). And then there's the lack of specs on highest temperatures reached, sometimes no info on voltage or spin speeds either. The 1918 may be a bit of a runt, but it's an honest machine with no nonsense controls and tech info. Oh well, my Neptune and 1918 are really all I need.

[this post was last edited: 6/14/2020-20:50]

 

[tomdawg]

Believe it or not, my Neptune died today. The bearings seized up. It will not turn. Spider pulley is fine.
I went to my appliance store and have a buddy that works there.
He thought with my growing family, Miele might be a wee bit small. Not to mention drying times will be long. Full loads take hour and a half to two... i think someone said 60-90 min.. I realized it wasn’t the biggest and the fastest, but was willing to take the chance.
He also stated that Miele doesn’t really have good customer service in the USA- that has been his experience. Parts take a while- if someone can state this isn’t true please let me know. He did say, Miele is good quality and they work well.
I ended up buying the LG- bigger and quick cycles. Still gunna have to run a gas line and a another hole in the house for a Vent- which is why I was originally interested in Miele. Small footprint was initially attractive to me.
Honestly, I feel sad, I felt like I Cheated most of you guys by not taking the advice you have given. I actually really wanted it, but the unknown of compact and service, concerns me.
For the record. The Neptune was never too small for me- more like the right size. I have till tomorrow morning to cancel and get the Miele still.. might take a month or so. But I’m willing to wait. [this post was last edited: 6/14/2020-20:46]

 

[tomdawg]

Reply #43

Sudsmaster

Thank you for that explanation- yes, I’ve experienced Neptune’s having a difficulty spinning when they are loaded to the max. So if you say Neptune’s is measured at 6kg- on Miele’s website- they are claiming 18 pounds- which is 8.1kg- this means the w1 would be bigger then the Neptune, weight wise.

 

[iej]

All I can tell you is the version I have which is rated 8kg will wash a large hamper of towels in one go without any problem at all.

They are very capable machines and use a recirculating pump which sprays water into the middle of the load as the drum turns at distribution speed.

It will handle a king sized quilt without even as much as a whimper.

I’ve washed 4 pillows in it with perfect results.

Basically you can stuff the drum, within reason and it will wash perfectly. Obviously don’t overload it to the point the door is under pressure but you don’t have to leave gaps when using the cotton cycles.

If you’re using a more gentle cycle, you will obviously need to reduce the load but that’s the same in any washer really.

 

[sgt10]

Don’t feel bad about purchasing an LG

I don’t think there was a clear cut “right” answer here. I have had a Neptune (I think the model was 5500), Miele W1, Miele Little Giant and the older Miele 1100 series. Could you have made the W1 work with your family size? Yes, but you have to be organized and devoted to it. There is one user on this site who uses it for a family of 13 I believe. He has his kids help and the machine Is running all the time.

You might be experiencing regret as you think of the good build quality of your prior Miele. I don’t think the W1 will be that level of build quality (I had to trade mine in due to a persistent and difficult to find leak), all the while the machine was out of service for months. The Little Giant is heavy duty, but quite a bit more money. While it worked, the wash results of the W1 were very good. But I’m sure with some smart oversight the results will be good with the LG too once you learn how best to deploy it.

And, if you really don’t like it, these days washing machines don’t last forever (and certainly if you use it a lot its life expectancy will not be long in years), you can make a different decision next time (6-7 years down the road).

Bottom line, I bet you will be happy with either machine.

 

[sgt10]

Miele service network

And in direct reply to your question, my experience with the Miele service Is mixed. At least there is a service network, but you will have to wait for service and not all of their guys are super skilled. The US service network is reputedly far less able than their European counterparts.

 

[sudsmaster]

Tomdawg,

 

Please scroll back up. I had to correct my weight calcs - forgot to subtract the weight of the hamper (duh).

 

Personally don't think one can go wrong with a 220 volt Miele with a 2.5 cu ft or larger capacity. Even the 1918 at 2 cu ft is a very capable machine.

 

Sorry to hear of your Neptune's demise. Bearings can be replaced, but it might take some special tools. I don't know. Did you use chlorine bleach, by any chance?

 

 

[tomdawg]

Sudsmaster

I rarely used chlorine bleach- maybe to run the washer through a “clean washer cycle”

I’ve replaced many bearings on the Neptune- eventually I put it in collectors mode. It needs to be retired. Their original pump 40 watt is super quiet and they are rare and harder to find. Many sites claim they have it but when you look at the specs, it’s not. The timer on the rinse cycles are acting funny. Recirculating pump turns on and off and you can hear the washer “reset”
lastly, I bypassed the lock, so I never have to worry about the wax motor blowing up boards. I do have small children- so the door can open no problem and my kids could touch it. I know it’s risky, but was holding out as long as I could.

The dryer rollers are rattling and the idler pulley is squeaking. Hence, this dryer has never been repaired!

Not to mention I need to stack- I moved to a newer house last year and it would make great room for extra space.

 

[launderess]

Miele USA's parts and service

Is a poor reproduction compared to Europe.

All parts come from Germany by way of Princeton, NJ. If your Miele appliance requires a part and tech does not have it on his truck or in stash, then he will have to order it from New Jersey. Heaven help you if the part is not in stock there, because it must come from Germany.

Miele's service basically goes like this:

You call Miele and explain the issue. They will tell you "no, it cannot be doing that". If you insist it is they will respond "what did you do to the machine?", and or insinuation or outright statement that you are doing something wrong. For washing machines Miele will say you've used too much of or the wrong kind of detergent...

So in end Miele will schedule a call out for tech to inspect appliance. This can be anywhere from one, two or more weeks out. Meanwhile your appliance is still broken..... Call out charge is steep; about $200 or more IIRC (it has been several years since have had them out), but that amount is credited towards repairs if necessary.

On appointed day (hopefully if tech does not reschedule), Miele will arrive, then either lo and behold yes, your appliance is doing what you said, or the error/issue won't occur while tech is there. Either way he may run some diagnostics and if an issue is found, or to correct will schedule another appointment to return with part and fix. Again you now may have not had a properly working appliance for a few or several weeks, and now you'll be waiting longer still before Miele returns.

If the issue is simple and can be fixed within time frame of first call out, you may luck out. You see Miele schedules their techs for first time call out mainly to diagnose. They are kept on a tight lead in terms of schedule, and if they have another call afterwards for service or whatever, they must leave in time to arrive at next call as scheduled.

Meanwhile if tech has the part in his stash (assuming one is needed) he will bring it at next call. If it must come from warehouse there is a good chance it will be sent directly to you and await installation.

Cannot stress enough that Miele techs are on tight schedule; if they cannot determine what is wrong with your appliance within time frame of first call out, they likely will have to return.

Finally maybe a month or so later appliance will be fixed (hopefully), you'll be out of pocket $$$$, and all is right with world.

No, Miele does not have enough service techs. They are in same boat as others trying to find, hire, train and retain competent people. Because nearly everything about Miele is proprietary many independent repair persons don't want anything to do with them. There are some former Miele techs who have gone out on their own, and they can be a good resource.

Myself and others have had extensive dealings with Miele USA (you can search archives for various threads), with various results.

Thing is usually in the end your appliance will be repaired, or if under warranty and cannot likely replaced. However it can be a very long time between first reaching out to Miele and things finally going right. So unless you have a back-up appliance at the ready, you'll be larded with a very expensive brick until thing is serviced.

Thing is in Europe Miele parts can be found literally off the shelf like Whirlpool or Kenmore are here in the states. Also most repair persons are familiar with a wide range of machines, (Miele, Bosch, AEG, etc...) so you aren't just stuck with using Miele's service.

Also there is a lively and strong DIY appliance repair tradition all over Europe. You can find tons of videos on YouTube of people who have done their own repairs on Miele and other European laundry appliances.

All this being said a brand new Miele washer and dryer should work out of the box trouble free. Anyone can make a few lemons and someone is going to get stuck with those appliances.

 

[mielerod69]

TwinDos dosing calculator

Hi everyone,

I got the algorithm of the Miele TwinDos system. I have put the formula into a spreadsheet which gives you the total dose of detergent dispensed depending on three factors: Laundry colour, soil level and load size.
I have attached an example of what a 50% (4kg) coloured load with light soil option dispenses of Ultra Phase 1 and 2.

If you do a white load with the same load size and soil level then the amount of UP2 would be 22.4 ml.

Based on this, one bottle of UP1 would last 67 loads and UP2 would last 136 loads.

When I got my Miele W1, the first thing I did was to go to the settings and default the soil level to light. Just by doing this, the amount of detergent dispensed is reduced by 30%. I have never had a suds problem with my machine.

 

[combo52]

Best Front Load stack

Is the Speed Queen, When you stack regular FL washer like LG, SS, WP, MT etc they are unserviceable without disconnecting the dryer and having two people move it out of the pantry, likewise the dryers are a PITA to service whether on top the washer or not.

 

If the lack of a water heater in the SQ brothers you it is easy to add a 4 gallon electric water heater to the cold water inlet and turn it on 15 minutes before starting a load and turn it off as you start the washer, you sound like you are clever enough to add a BI heater as well, SQ makes all the parts as they sell lots of their FL machines with a heater all over the world.

 

SQs are built for easy service, you can change the dryer motor in less than 1/2 hour, the gas burner is fully assessable without taking the top off the dryer, then the front off and the drum out as on the LG. On the SQ just two screws removes the dryers lower front and repairs and adjustments are easy because you can run the machine with the cover off.

 

The SQ washer is also simple to work on, clearing the pump protecter or even replacing the 80 watt drain pump only takes 10-15 minutes on most including the LG you are looking at at least an hour.

 

And most of all do you really want to buy a Chinese machine that is just a copy of a WP ?, the dryer is such a close copy that many parts interchange with WP parts.

 

SQ also comes with a real 5 year warranty, and SQ will send you parts durning the warranty if you want to do your own repairs.

 

Of the nearly 100 of these SQ stacks we have sold over the last decade or so I have never had anyone that did not love it, quite a few have bought another for a second home or for their kids.

 

John L.

 

[sudsmaster]

Tomdawg,

 

I have NEVER used chlorine bleach in my Neptune 7500. And it's been running trouble free for 20 years, outside of a service call after about 3 years to replace the cracked spider - under extended warranty. And then I *think* the tech also replaced the LCD display screen even though I wasn't complaining about it.

 

It may be coincidental, but my theory is that chlorine bleach does a number on front loader washer bearings. There's a reason why Miele insists that it never be used in their washers (at least in the 1900 series). Occasionally I will use an oxygen bleach, and at 130F that's really all I've ever needed.

 

 

[chachp]

No Bleach in Bosch Machines

 

<span style="font-family: helvetica;">I had a Bosch Axxis+ machine I bought in 2002.  I remember it was odd there was no bleach dispenser.  Turns out Bosch doesn't want you to use bleach in their machines either.  It's in a few places in the User Manual.</span>

 

<span style="font-family: helvetica;">That's when I started using Oxi Clean instead and haven't used bleach since. </span>

 

[launderess]

Early on

Bosch used to have something in warranty or owners manual saying use of chlorine bleach would void any warranty. This was when they first were breaking into USA market, not sure when that ended.

As for fumes, unless Bosch washers are made from some metal or other substance that reacts with chlorine bleach, don't see how fumes can form. Well unless one is mixing things with said bleach that one shouldn't like ammonia.

Miele tech told me years ago that using chlorine bleach now and then wouldn't hurt their machines. This was about older units (before 12xx series), so not sure how that works today.

Indeed another tech said if machine developed a pong that couldn't be shifted otherwise, to run a wash with some LCB. Just make sure machine ran complete cycle with several rinses afterwards.

In general no, chlorine bleach isn't best thing for stainless steel IIRC, but commercial/industrial and laundromat washers use chlorine bleach all the time.

 

[chachp]

Bleach voids warranty

 

<span style="font-family: helvetica;">I remember when I bought mine the salesman told me bleach would void the warranty when I asked why there was no bleach dispenser.  He said it was bad for the stainless steel.  I don't see anything in the user guide under warranty about the bleach.</span>

 

[rolls_rapide]

"Miele models... it's a bewildering array..."

You're not wrong there!

I was busy looking at the UK Miele site last evening, just trying to satisfy my curiosity for a possible future purchase...

Pricewise, the cheapest didn't really fit the bill in terms of features.

The ones with the Powerwash feature, I didn't like the look of.

The ones with a 1600rpm spin, had the TwinDos and wibbly-wobbly wi-fi which I don't want - and I didn't like the look of them either.

I liked the older chrome door styling -which has now become painted plastic - with the slightly sloping control panel. I think only two were available, and one of them was geared towards visually impaired users.