miele w3033 from 120 to 240 volts

[brisnat81]

Hi AZReo,

 

No idea why Miele would be selling a 110v machine here, everything is 240v 10amps, 2400watts.

 

Italmex, you're still using the same amount of power to raise the temperature of the water from x to y.  If it's limited to 1000watts on 110v it'll just take twice as long as it would on 2000watts on 220v.  The amount of watts used is still exactly the same, it's just the time that changes.

 

I can select US programs on my Miele, also Euro and Sweden, it also lets me program the heater wattage and drum size.  In the wiring schematic, where is the transformer, is it in line with the power cord, or connected after the fact?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gizmo]

Italmex

It will be no cheaper at all.

Electricity is sold in cents per kilowatt hour (Kwh).

If you use a new heater element with double the wattage, it will heat twice as fast but that is because it uses twice as much power. The number of Kwh will be the same.

Changing to 240 volts allows you to use a higher wattage element, but that just means your machine will chew up the Kwh's faster. The total number of Kwh will be about the same.

Is your house supply 240v or 120v? If you have 120 (110) at home now, the ONLY advantage you could get from converting the machine to 240v is a faster cycle, because the water temp setting will be reached quicker. The other things you want such as higher temperatures, are decided by the machine's programming and will NOT change if you convert the voltage.

Remember that the electronics in the machine (the microprocessor and control circuits) will almost certainly run from 5volts and 12volts DC - there is another power supply inside, on the circuit board, that changes the 240v Ac down to 5v and 12v DC for the control circuitry. So it doesn't matter what voltage supply the machine runs from, the programming, including maximum temperatures, will remain the same.

It appears that this machine is made basically as a 240v machine, with a transformer to step up the 120v supply to 240v for the motor, pump, controller, other circuits, with only the heater element being supplied 120v direct from the mains. That heating element will already be switched by a relay.

In effect, you supply 120 volts AC to the machine. It then is fed through a transformer to supply 240 volts to the controller. (and motor, etc.) that 240 volts is then stepped down again to the low voltage control circuits (5 or 12 volts). They switch a relay which connects the 120v supply direct to the special 120V element. (NOT via the transformer.)

If you were to proceed to a modification to 240 volts, you would NOT need to add a relay, the existing heater will already be fed via a relay. You would have to check that the relay is rated for 240 volts, too. I would NOT attempt a conversion and advise you to drop the idea.

.

 

[italmex]

thanks for the advise. The idea to change 120 to 240 is basicaly to get the temp faster. This machine have for example the short ones (cotton) that will not wait to reach the programe temp. run the time and drain finishing the wash cycle. Basically this is the idea, be faster. About the electricity I'm sure it will be cheaper. and yes the only thing that runs at 120 is the heat element. The other parts run at 220-240, 50-60Hz.

 

[gizmo]

"I'm sure it will be cheaper..."

It won't. It's a scientific fact.

 

[mrb627]

Guarantee?

Wait, are you saying that Miele doesn't hit the target temps?

Malcolm

 

[launderess]

Not All Front Loaders With Heaters

Even European versions past or present will hold the timer until set temperature.

It all comes down to what parameters the timer/mother board is set for versus incoming water temperature against desired temp.

For instance my mechanical/electronic Miele will only stay in the heating portion of the cycle based upon timer settings (factory). Once the time is up in either "long" or "short" cycles the timer will advance to the next portion of the cycle. Mind you the heater will stay on until the thermostat registers the desired temp and shuts it off. However if the incoming water was cold or very cold and one chose a very high wash temp (>140 or >170) there is good chance the wash cycle will end before water reaches that temperature.

OTHO my Miele has 3000 watts of heating power so in theory that should be more than enough juice to take ice water to boiling in the allowed amount of time.

Given how Miele has gone to all 120v washers with only around 1000 watts of heating power, one can see how a short cycle coupled with cold fill with cold or very cold water could cause problems reaching hot or very hot temperatures.

 

[mrb627]

Hmmm...

In this case, it seems that the Asko is a better value. Or grab a Bosch machine while you still can...

Malcolm

 

[italmex]

Sorry buy miele is much better that asko. asko is now owned by merloni family, same as ariston washers so... miele is better. About bosch, yes is good but....still with miele. About my Miele w3033 the only program that stop time until gets temp is the custom one. All the others are moved by time no temp. So custom program is the only one that it dosn't matter the incoming temp of the water and the short or extended program, it gets the temp. Thatis the reason I'm looking to change 120 to 240.

 

[AZREOspecialist]

@ brisnat81

I meant Canada, not Australia.

@ mrb627

I totally agree. Get a machine built for 240v.

@ italmex

Your costs will not change, it's a mathematical fact. No amount of "I believe it will be cheaper" will change the math. If your machine takes 10 minutes to heat with 220v, it will take 20 minutes using 110v. The wattage used will be the same, just over a longer period of time using lower voltage. But the total energy expended is the same and will cost exactly the same. Math is math regardless of what you "think" or "believe".

Also, I challenge your conclusions on how the W3033 behaves in Custom vs. other cycles. I have a W4842 with essentially the same firmware, voltage, etc. My machine uses more water than yours. It never has trouble hitting temps on any cycle. However, i also have the machine hooked up to cold AND hot water as it was designed. Feeding the machine only cold water will not function correctly - the W4842 and W3033 were not designed as cold-fill only machines.

 

[launderess]

The Dealer Passes

I give up, as the guy will not be moved! *LOL*

Had a feeling that he is using his Miele as a cold fill only which indeed could cause problems. There just isn't enough heating power to take cold water to anything but perhaps 100F or if pushed about 120F (and evne then), within the cycle times alloted on these machines.

There is also the fact many modern detergents work so well in cold or cool water that things will be mostly clean by the time temperature reaches anywhere near "hot".

 

[mrb627]

Cold Water Detergents

I agree. I think the cold water formulas work quite well and are the wave of the future. I was told that a washing machine with an on board heater will be hard to find in 5 years so we had better get used to it. I would also suspect that like more efficient dishwashers, clothes washer cycles will get longer too.

Malcolm

 

[launderess]

Longer Cycle Times

Oh I don't know about that.

Long cycle times + low water levels = textile damage.

Consumer Reports amoung other sources have been reporting for some time now the modern front loading washing machines aren't as gentle on fabrics as they once were. These problems only began increasing when washers began using less water and longer cycle times to make the "Energy Star" people happy.

Dishes are another matter and can withstand far more abuse. However given the *fairy pee* stream of water used in many modern dishwashers it's not like they are being scoured to death during those long cycles.

Regarding onboard heaters most commercial laundromat machines manage to get on without them, as do many other washers used in that setting. However lack of warm or hot water does mean detergents must be stronger (and also perhaps other chemicals such as bleach) to balance the famous five variables off good laundry practice.

 

[logixx]

Actually... Whirlpool in Europe sells front loaders with a SuperEco cycle. WP claims it uses 63% less energy than a boil wash while getting clothes just as clean at 140F. I haven't used it yet but the manual says it mostly soaks the load with little tumbling - that's why it takes 5:09 hrs.

 

[launderess]

Well Yes

Have various soaking cycles on my Miele as well. Since soaking by nature means less mechanical action than a normal cycle one expects it to be more gentle on fabrics.

 

[nmassman44]

I wonder when one gets into the Technical program of this machine if there are Country settings. My Miele LaPerla dishwasher has that where I can access settings. The Austrailian setting changes the cycles and temp ranges, there is a Southern Europe, Japan, USA and I cant remember the rest but it does change the programming some. You might want to check that out before you go tinkering with stuff and especially with a young machine like this.
Another thing is that 1000 watts is plenty to heat the water in the machine. Its not like your heating an entire tub of water. I know in my Miele 4800 washer it doesnt take long at all for the water to get nice and hot and in my opinion 158F is plenty hot.

 

[AZREOspecialist]

COUNTRY SETTINGS

Yes, the W3033 and W48XX series have country settings that can be selected from the "secret" program menu. However, at least on the W48XX, selecting anything but USA causes all cycles to default to about 40 mins. It doesn't matter if you select Sanitary or Normal or Delicate. So at least with the W48XX, I would not recommend selecting another country's settings. Doing so will render your machine essentially useless until you change it back.

 

[nmassman44]

I don't plan on changing country settings on my 4800 washer. I am happy with it the way it is. I was saying for this instance where he wants a higher temp he might be able to access the Programming. If I had a 3033 machine I would be happy the way it is. I would tinker with the water plus but that's it. Besides the 4800 doesn't have a screen and I can't figure out the flashes on the panel to save my life.

 

[AZREOspecialist]

The W3033 and W48XX clean clothes very well and at lower temps than their European brethren. These machines were designed for US style washing, utilizing the large 40-50 gallon hot water supply at most American homes. THESE WERE NOT DESIGNED AS COLD FILL ONLY MACHINES AND SHOULD NOT BE USED IN THAT MANNER.

If used as designed, there should be no issues "hitting temp". In fact, I use the Normal cycle for most of my laundry - and NORMAL doesn't even use the built-in heater. The fiberglass outer drum of the Miele W48XX (don't know if the W3033 is fiberglass) is an excellent insulator, so the Normal cycle works just fine for the vast majority of laundry needs.

As has already been mentioned, adding a 220v heating element to a 110v machine may accelerate the heating time, but it will do nothing to save electricity or lower your bill. The only practical purpose for making this modification would be to allow your machine to heat up to 200F, but as is fairly obvious the firmware in neither machine will allow for this possibility. The target temps are hard coded and cannot be changed via programming.

My question is this... doesn't the machine clean well enough as-is? If you really need a true profile wash and super high temps, but don't want to buy an Asko or another brand, you can always get the Little Giants or import a 220v Miele machine from the UK or Australia. The OP seems to be handy with taking his machine apart, making modifications and potentially voiding his warranty. So if you're going to do that, why not just import the right machine to do the job and service it yourself?

 

[italmex]

miele w3033 120 240

Thanks. The normal program will not heat only for commercial purpose. With that program special made Miele reach 139kw per year and the star energy in the US and Canada. That is the only reason the program will not heat. In my case I'm looking for the 240 posibility only because here in Mexico or were I live (Mexico City) hte electricity is a little cheaper then gas. the only good machines Miele sell in Mexico are 3033 4842. The second one is too big for 2 people so the 3033 is perfect. A kitchen shop tried to sell the Asko but with no tecnical support ..... no thanks. Again a pw6065 woud be perfect but keep the same machine for a 30,000 hours work (a lot of years) no thanks. I know Miele will last for years but at this point the tecnology moves so fast that this machine in 10 years will be a classic.

About the 240 volts 2100W heater yes I'm intrested so I can wash a full load in a short program and I will have the guaranty that my Miele reach the temp in no time.

Did you try to wash something white that you were washing at Normal to a sanitary program??? try and you will see how white it will get. And if you use the Miele detergent.... just check.

 

[AZREOspecialist]

@ italmex

I don't wash whites on Normal. I wash darks and colored clothes on Normal. I wash whites using Extra White on Very Warm or HOT. I have rarely needed to use the Sanitary cycle - I simply have no need for the 158F temperature. That is too hot for most fabrics - that is, if you want your fabrics to last.