Miele w4840 series

[henene4]

These were sold in Mexico, yes.

No idea as to why, and probably even in fewer numbers than the US.
But I guess just printing a new sticker for the facia made it worth it.

 

[sgt10]

The thing I find more puzzling than where it is manufactured

Is Miele’s deliberate decision not to uphold its pledge to continue making parts available for these machines. If memory serves, I seem to recall them offering some minimal discount on a new machine when they told me they no longer have the necessary parts for the W4840. I suppose it’s a business decision like any other ... easier to have a few disappointed clients who can’t get parts than to continue manufacturing the odd part. But still, it tells you something about what their promise to continue producing parts is worth.

 

[brisnat81]

@Logix, the 7500 series Maytag Neptunes were the same here, only 1300watts heating. Luckily they were hot and cold fill, but if you started with cold and tried to heat to 60C, you were waiting hours. They had a transformer in the bottom of the machine, but I dont know whether that dropped all power to 120v, or just certain circuits.

 

[launderess]

Minimal discount for new machine....

That is part of Miele's standard response when they don't want to deal with an older or whatever appliance any longer. On one of service calls for my W1070 head of service in Princeton offered a slim discount if I'd take a new machine and not bother them any longer about my old one. Was then told my machine and address were put on a "don't go list" as not only was machine "old" and not worth bothering about, but they didn't like layout of my home or whatever information techs put in about the place.

@Louis

Recall that debate, and didn't wish to go there unless necessary. Certain Miele appliances had power ratings for Mexico, which lead some to read things as if they were manufactured in that country. Which of course is rubbish...

If Miele refuses to build any sort of production plant in USA for washing machines and dryers, why would they do so in Mexico where their share of appliance market is smaller than USA?

Also were Miele to have a Mexican production plant they could take advantage of NAFTA and send appliances to USA far cheaper than shipping things from Europe.

In end of course we plebs know nothing, I mean we're not service persons with vast years of experience, and or "don't get out in real world".....

@sgt10

If Miele truly has ceased stocking parts for 4XXX washers and matching dryers it speaks to how much they want to get away from those machines.

Consider also Miele didn't sell these units outside of North America IIRC. It likely would cost dear to keep producing parts for washers and dryers that didn't sell in large numbers (compared to other machines) that have or had greater distribution.

 

[tomdawg]

Couple questions

I’m not sure if they have the original shipping bolts. So when transporting it. Do I really need them? I plan to be careful but I thought I’d ask. Is there a side that would help with transport?

Secondly. Why can’t you fill these machines all the way up? Breaking the belt or spider? Curious!

I get a picture when I have my hands on it.

 

[launderess]

Manual only states "Important: Fill drum only 3/4 way. Items need room to move otherwise may get caught in door seal."

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/353771/Miele-W-4840.html?page=13#manual

If people routinely disregarded this advice and loaded 4XXX washers like Miele's of old on Normal (drum filled loosely but with about a clenched fist worth of room at top), I do not know.

Miele states 4XXX washers have a 4.0 cubic foot capacity. However IIRC many stated they could fit more into the W3XXX washers than W4XXX because the former could be loaded more fully.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/2424061/capacity-difference-miele-models

https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?71119

If had to compare would say washers SQ or even Miele W1 are rated for about 18 pounds of wash in normal/cottons, while the W4XXX more like 16 pounds.

Moving H-axis washers without shipping bolts.

Opinions vary on this subject. Some state emphatically machines should not be moved without them, others say long as washer kept upright and not jolted about moving without shipping bolts in place shouldn't be an issue.

Much also likely will depend up on who is doing the moving and how far machines are traveling. Since all of my front loaders came quite a distance (AEG set clear from across country), opted to purchase and have installed shipping bolts.

OTOH if you're doing a local move and job yourself they might not be necessary.

 

[tomdawg]

Well. Getting it in my little nv200 van shouldn’t be a problem. It’s low to the ground, I have thought of carefully putting it on its side. <— maybe I should be yelled at to not do it!
It’s 1.5 miles from my house and the fastest speed is 35mph. So I’m not to worried about road vibrations.
I feel some front loaders are more touchy than others.. I believe whirlpool products are more touchy than a Neptune or LG. I just don’t know about Miele.

 

[sgt10]

Why can’t fill up w4840 tub

I can’t prove it, but I have long suspected that they undersized the motor relative to the size and weight of the tub and spider. Yes, I realize that they made heavy duty commercial machinery of equivalent size, but I think that once they decided to make some components heavier duty than the typical residential machine (perhaps like the cast iron spider), they would have had to upgrade the motor to handle both the components and a very full tub of laundry. And I suspect that they simply thought that the extra cost involved wasn’t worth it. The relation between the force required to spin the mass of tub plus laundry probably increases non-linearly with the mass (maybe the square of the mass? - high school physics was so long ago). Just like cyclists work hard to reduce wheel weight because the rotational weight matters so much to effort expended, the extra weight of a packed tub and iron spider and robust tub would have required a very heavy duty motor. It’s just my guess, but they would have had to do many things to keep costs in the realm of reality, and not at the level of an octoplus or whatever the equivalent commercial unit was at the time.

 

[henene4]

Don't think that

Miele long had "issues" managing high loading ratios in quick cycles.

Over here, their "short" cycles for full loads were a good 50% longer than the competition.

Designing these machines, they probably had several concerns:

A) Good results in the time asked for just weren't possible to their standards.
Main fear there might even have been saturation - until the W1 series Miele never was particularly quick at soaking full loads.
B) Suspension components probably were designed to handle it, but they didn't want to risk it.
C) Back then, Miele still had their "standards" for balancing. Maybe they couldn't meet that for a full tub.

Makeing a powerful motor really isn't the issue.

While yes, the moment of inertia goes up squared by the radius - not weight - you can just speed up slower and keep power down that way.

And for an inverter based system you just upscale some components on the PCB - that is just a matter of cents in parts.
The current draw just goes up. Not much else.

 

[combo52]

Meile Full Sized W4840 Etc

Thank you Louis for posting the model tag from your washer, I have talked to to other repair folks yearterday and because it says Mexico all three of us assumed it was built in Mexico.

 

It is an interesting way to word a model tag, US import law requires the country of manufacture, yet have never found Czech Republic on one of these washers.

 

Dear Laundress, I am sorry I doubted your information about the country of origin of these washers, but it is certainly not the first or likely the last time you or I have been wrong about something.

 

As Far As Moving This Washer, Hi Tom I would keep it Up-Right even for a short move.

 

Any FL washer can be moved without shipping bolts if it is kept up-right, without the shipping bolts they are actually much less likely to be damaged when in a moving vehicle as the suspension system of the washer easily soaks up the jolts etc.

 

Look at all the luxury motor homes causing around the country with either FL combos or FL stack or even TL stacks in them, None require you to put the shipping bolts in place to drive the vehicle.

 

Another point to consider is even if you have the original shipping bolts for a FL washer they are about impossible to reinstall because the inner tub assembly has to be held in place to get the rear bolts to thread into place. We have never bothered to reinstall SBs for any of the hundreds of used FL washer we have delivered and reinstalled.

 

John L.

 

[gizmo]

without wanting to put any extra fuel on a fire, I am reminded of some good advice:

always keep your words sweet

in case you have to eat them.

 

[foraloysius]

John,

Just for the record, it isn't a picture of my machine but from a thread on the Laundry Room forum on the Gardenweb. I've been a member there for an even longer time than I'm a member here, although I hardly ever post there anymore. I remembered this was discussed there.

I'm wondering too why Miele has not stuck to their rule to keep parts available. Is it an another issue with the US Miele organisation? It wouldn't surprise me considering that their attitude is much different than we are used to here in Europe.

 

[launderess]

That's 15 minutes of my life I want back....

Rang up Miele and after spending ages on hold finally reached someone in parts.

Part in question isn't in stock but "can be ordered", which was all the person spoke with could say on the matter. Cost is around $283 or something plus tax, shipping.....

Person could (or would) not say if this part was going to be ordered from Germany as part of inventory, only that if wanted an order could be placed. Of course only way to find out if this is true would be by placing an order.

This isn't exactly new, Miele USA long ordered parts for appliances that weren't in stock from Germany.

As mentioned Miele USA had a total reshuffle last year with new management that brought changes. Many long time employees left, which means new hires. On top of that customer service seems now to have been outsourced,

 

[petek]

Louis

Gardenweb.. now that's a historical memory LOL

I used to like that site but then it changed to something else or format and iirc became sort of difficult to use and a lot of the regulars vamoosed.

 

[foraloysius]

Yes, sort of a blast from the past. But the laundryroom is still there. Some of the members have moved here and disappeared from there, but I still like to have a look now and then although the latest format is quite a nightmare to use.

 

[jerrod_six]

I called Miele service last month and thought perhaps they were working from home due to Covid-19.

 

[launderess]

From recent dealings (trying to get that timer for my W1070), seems as if tech support part of customer service now is outsourced to some apart India or somewhere. At least each time one rang always got someone with an Indian maybe other accent.

Parts I believe were or still are working from home; you just sort of can tell by background sounds. Also years ago when rang up Miele USA parts you could hear them plonking away on what sounded like a old sort of keyboard. Don't hear that over past year with covi-19 raging.

Really sad thing is now tech support will only book call outs basically. Department is no longer staffed by (sometimes very helpful) techs who will offer advice and or walk you through a repair or something. Asked one of the persons reached recently in that area and his reply was (we stopped doing that because it caused more problems than it was worth).

 

[jerrod_six]

I spoke with the Miele CSR today and after my business was taken care of I asked if they were working from home. The CSR said that some people were but that he preferred to be in the office and socially distanced. I asked where that was, and the answer was that the Miele call center was in the state of Georgia, and my technician is based out of the state of New Jersey. It seems like they did have a system that bounced calls to different call centers because a few years ago I ended up at a German call center with a CSR that spoke English. I asked how that happened and he said the call system would sometimes route calls to an available call center.

Anymore I don't expect to get much real information from a call center which seems like it is used to direct inquiries rather than answer them. The center does have access to my account and is able to pull up information about all of my current and past appliances, and they can talk to the service dispatch desk, but I don't count on them answering any type of technical question. They simply read what is already contained in the user manual or whatever is in a support script that is given to them. I am familiar with this model because it is the same one used at the company I work for so I know what to expect.

 

[launderess]

Miele has a call center in Georgia? That's news! *LOL*

Besides NJ knew they had one out in CA for a bit. That one closed and Miele opened another in Seattle or someplace in PNW, they still may have one there for all I know.

Miss the old days when techs actually answered calls to "technical support". Was fortunate enough times to get guys who not only knew my old W1070, but worked on many a same machine.

 

[tomdawg]

Got them.

Here they are! Got the dryer as well, it’s Electric.

They are in rough condition internally but i definitely can clean them up pretty good

 

[appnut]

Congratulations Tom. Good luck and I know you'll keep us posted.

 

[combo52]

Glad you got these, they should be fun to use and play with.

 

The last owners sure did not know how to wash clothing, when a dryer lint screen has that much soil on it you know you are in trouble.

 

Unfortunately the washer spider is probably pretty corroded, was the bleach dispenser cup even in place in the dispenser drawer, it sure looks like it never saw really hot washes or LCB.

 

The last one of these we got was really gross, we used it for about 20-30 loads and it started to clean up pretty well but then the strange noises started and it soon became clear the spider was toast.

 

John L.

 

[tomdawg]

I bypassed the dispenser hose and it goes directly into the washer- so as of now the dispensers won’t work correctly but at least I can wash clothes.

I have it Hooked up in my garage using hot water for now.. I can’t believe how dirty the water is after each load. Gross!

One reason I don’t want to put money into the washer. I’m concerned the spider is corroded. Unless I can find a new one for decent price I might fix it.

The bleach compartment was in place but I don’t think it ever saw bleach or hot water like you said.

I have soft water as well, so it will probably start to peel it all of more quickly or cause it to break faster.

For now I’m just going to play with it! It’s sure interesting so far!

 

[launderess]

Congrats!

When my Miele arrived had boot swapped out for new and was glad of it. When Miele tech got the thing out it was fouled with mold and God only knows what else, plus had a small hole. What you see growing in folds is only one part, there is the "outside" of boot that is often is gross as well.

Don't think Miele sold spiders as separate part for 4XXX series washers or perhaps many others before. You'd have to get an entire new tub assembly which likely would cost dear. That's even if Miele USA sells new tub assemblies or even spider directly for this machine.

Used W4XXX washers pop up in various states of condition often enough from what have seen. You might want to consider putting feelers out to find a parts donor washer. This way you can harvest parts to create one good machine.

If you can let washer heat water suggest running a "maintenance" cycle at highest wash temperature with dedicated cleaner or maybe something else. Letting washer heat on it's own warms up entire machine which will help dislodge crud

 

[tomdawg]

Updates!

Observations.
The washer is Efficient! On average it’s 6-7 gallons of water per load.
I have done quite a few loads in it and I love the algorithm. Miele is much slower than my LG with turbo wash- but I see Miele’s beliefs in taking care for your garments.
I am comparing this Miele to washers I have owned in the past or present. Some might find it controversial. lol

Washing performance
It’s interesting to watch Kirk Rivas dirty jeans test videos, LG didn’t perform as well as Electrolux or some water hog machines. I knew buying an LG, it would suffer from a heavy duty performance, but I know I could add/change options for the washer to perform better. Miele, on one hand, felt if you selected heavy soil or sanitize option it would clean to your expectations. Clean means clean. Hence miele has the fastest sanitize cycle I’ve ever known. One hour and 27 minutes!
Overall, Miele seems to clean very well. especially when heavy soil loads are selected. Normal cycles in comparison from LG I felt are the same.

Rinsing performance
I wash wands from window washing weekly, I have done this test on numerous washers. Basically the wands are full of grime and dirt from the windows with leftover dawn dishsoap. I wash them with little laundry soap. Whirlpool duet was one of the worst at getting all the soap rinsed out. LG is the best as rinsing without using extra rinses- it has lead me to believe the spin spray rinse is a useful tool, Miele not offering this, it’s lacking in rinsing power- though, it was better than Whirlpool.

Spinning/balancing performance
I once had a Bosch axxis washer, I could load completely full and it would handle any kind of load with very little balancing problems- the Miele reminded me of that performance- I have done several full heavy loads and really didn’t have to redistribute more than 3-4 times. Vibration was minimal and smooth. LG and Whirlpool struggle to handle a full load- hence it was a large load of 4.5cu ft

Many others on there have said, the Miele W1 handles just as much or more than the W4XXX series and often performs better.

 

[launderess]

Thanks for update

Am that glad you are enjoying your new washer.....

One reason haven't been to bothered to nab a used Miele W4XXX is that felt the W3XXX and certainly W1 series are in their ways better. IMHO Miele was eager to scrap the W4xxx series and go back to the drawing board which got us the W1.

 

[tomdawg]

I found a service manual.

Found a service manual and went to town on it. I added water+ because I thought a little more water will help boost it performance. Will have to do a few loads

Operating hours is 2028 - that seems really low to me. Isn’t the average operating hours 15000 hours?

Lastly, the RPM have me in shock- I can change it up to 2000rpm. So going from 1400 to 2000.. I’m curious to know if any one else has done this and would it harm the machine??

 

[logixx]

would it harm the machine??

Probably.

 

[henene4]

2000rpm

Most Softtronic machines offered that functionality.

The machines with brushed motors could be configured up to 1600rpm, brushless once up to 2000rpm.

It will shorten the life of the bearings some.

I know that EU machines can handle it.
Can't say that for sure for the US full size machines.

Operating hours:

So, the machine only counts full hours of cycle runtime.
So a 59min cycle would not change that counter.

Over here, that wasn't an issue since most cycles were about 2h.

In the US where many cycles are less than an hour the discrepancy could add up.

 

[foraloysius]

The big drum in combination with 2000rpm could be a recipe for problems when the load is off balance.