Miele Wash Rinses
- Thread starter mtoronto
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Hi,
What model do you have, and on that page is there any more information about the cycle adjusting itself depending on soil level? In the Rest of the world manuals, there should also be a second half of that table that shows the Time and water consumption.
You don't always need a prewash, which is why it seems weird that the normal cycle does 2 and yet Sanitize does none.
When I look at the G5605 SC USA manual (Screenshot below) which is about the same as my G5715SCUXXLCS the cycles look normal. If you can give the model number that'll help us see whats going on. I've dug around on the CA and USA websites and cant find a current model that looks quite like yours.
Those do seem like weird options though, that's not quite what the rest of the world's Miele cycles look like.
What model do you have, and on that page is there any more information about the cycle adjusting itself depending on soil level? In the Rest of the world manuals, there should also be a second half of that table that shows the Time and water consumption.
You don't always need a prewash, which is why it seems weird that the normal cycle does 2 and yet Sanitize does none.
When I look at the G5605 SC USA manual (Screenshot below) which is about the same as my G5715SCUXXLCS the cycles look normal. If you can give the model number that'll help us see whats going on. I've dug around on the CA and USA websites and cant find a current model that looks quite like yours.
Those do seem like weird options though, that's not quite what the rest of the world's Miele cycles look like.
jerrod6
Well-known member
The second half of that page with consumption information for each program is not included for folks in North America. Miele doesn't give us the information they give to the rest of the world.
Maybe the OP didn't post a page showing the rest of the programs or his machine does not have a soil sensor, so there will be no adjustment made based on soil level and a set amount of water will be used regardless of load size.
I have an older TOL machine with a soil sensor and about 14 or more programs. Some of these programs do not have a pre wash. I find for MY normal type soil I don't really need one so most days I will use a program without a prewash. For heavier normal type soil I use the sensor program that will do a pre-wash, then decide if it needs to change the water for the wash. If it doesn't it uses the pre-wash water for the main wash. If it does need to change the water it will and then use fresh water for the wash. Using the sensor program will at least give me two rinses and sometimes three. However all of my programs will rinse at least twice - but that was then, with older energy requirements, this is now with tougher requirments. I have other programs I can use for other types of soil.
Looking at the manual posted by the OP the normal cycle does 1 prewash which is prewash 2. There may be a difference in time between prewash 1 and prewash 2, but I think his model is only doing prewash 2 on the normal cycle.
I don't like the new set up with only doing 1 rinse after the wash for the normal cycle, but if this cycle is used for Energy ratings that would explain why only one rinse is being done. It has nothing to do with if its good or right to do, everything to do with good energy ratings.
Maybe the OP didn't post a page showing the rest of the programs or his machine does not have a soil sensor, so there will be no adjustment made based on soil level and a set amount of water will be used regardless of load size.
I have an older TOL machine with a soil sensor and about 14 or more programs. Some of these programs do not have a pre wash. I find for MY normal type soil I don't really need one so most days I will use a program without a prewash. For heavier normal type soil I use the sensor program that will do a pre-wash, then decide if it needs to change the water for the wash. If it doesn't it uses the pre-wash water for the main wash. If it does need to change the water it will and then use fresh water for the wash. Using the sensor program will at least give me two rinses and sometimes three. However all of my programs will rinse at least twice - but that was then, with older energy requirements, this is now with tougher requirments. I have other programs I can use for other types of soil.
Looking at the manual posted by the OP the normal cycle does 1 prewash which is prewash 2. There may be a difference in time between prewash 1 and prewash 2, but I think his model is only doing prewash 2 on the normal cycle.
I don't like the new set up with only doing 1 rinse after the wash for the normal cycle, but if this cycle is used for Energy ratings that would explain why only one rinse is being done. It has nothing to do with if its good or right to do, everything to do with good energy ratings.
Fortunately, none of the current European models will only do one rinse. Depending on which model you have, mtoronto, there are ways of programming extra water and/or extra rinses.
The service manual for the G1000 / G2000 series does not cover the follow-up units that had an xxx2 in the model number. However, both the user manual for your dishwasher as well as the service manual describe setting the amount of rinse aid to be dispensed in the same way. See page 129 and following for possible hidden-menu adjustments such as Extra Rinse or Extra Water. Customer service might help you over the phone as well - if you're lucky.
http://applianceservicesecretsmembership.com_manuals.s3.amazonaws.com/Miele/Miele%20G1000%20G2000%20Dishwasher%20Dec%2006.pdf
http://applianceservicesecretsmembership.com_manuals.s3.amazonaws.com/Miele/Miele%20G1000%20G2000%20Dishwasher%20Dec%2006.pdf
One rinse on the normal cycle is likely correct. The normal on my La Perla II, which if iirc, is of the same model line and has only one rinse as default. Thanks to member, nmassman, who posted the instructions to access the hidden menus several years ago. I was able to add an extra rinse and increase water levels in all programmes, as logixx suggests. Making an otherwise useless programme useful. Again, iirc, this was the entry level of the line and believe that it didn't include the sensor system used on the upper end of the range.
It does at least one interim rinse before the final rinse, so you still get at least 2 rinses overall.
The Normal programme is how Miele gets its Energy Star designation. Therefore, it really only provides one rinse. For that reason, I use Sensor Wash most of the time.
It probably tries to carry over most of the heat from the main wash into the final rinse to save energy by not having to heat as much. Previous versions of Energy Label Normal cycle did two prewashes in order to purge as much cold water from the line so that the dishwasher didn't have to heat as much.
pierreandreply4
Well-known member
well most dishwashers today requires that the hot water runs
Well most modern dishwashers of today even built in models requires that you run the hot water from the sink for at least 10 to 15 minutes then you start the dishwasher
Well most modern dishwashers of today even built in models requires that you run the hot water from the sink for at least 10 to 15 minutes then you start the dishwasher
jerrod6
Well-known member
10 to 15 minutes of constant hot water running? What must this cost in water bills?
What ever cost you save in the dishwasher heating water is eaten up in water bill cost. This whole thing is a crap shoot. I would just rather have my dishwasher heat it's own water than me having to supply it hot water. No one is really saving anything if you have to supply the hot water in the first place.
What ever cost you save in the dishwasher heating water is eaten up in water bill cost. This whole thing is a crap shoot. I would just rather have my dishwasher heat it's own water than me having to supply it hot water. No one is really saving anything if you have to supply the hot water in the first place.
pierreandreply4
Well-known member
jerrod6
jerrod6, In canada province of quebec we de not have water bills since the town i live in do not charge for water for your info but it also depends on the dishwasher model i have a kenmore elite dishwasher but if i have the hi temp option selected it starts heating the water as soon as i press smart wash cycle chose the options hit start and voila no need to run the faucet first.
jerrod6, In canada province of quebec we de not have water bills since the town i live in do not charge for water for your info but it also depends on the dishwasher model i have a kenmore elite dishwasher but if i have the hi temp option selected it starts heating the water as soon as i press smart wash cycle chose the options hit start and voila no need to run the faucet first.
Running the Tap before Dishwasher
If you have a long pipe run, all this is really guaranteeing is adequate washing performance in the US where dishwashers seem to need 3hrs to heat 3 thimbles worth of water.
In our case here in Australia, where electricity costs about 25c/kWh, it represents a saving of about $16 annually, with water cost factored in. The cost of tap-running for the water is about $4 annually.
The electrical figure may be higher, I only calculated it based upon a cycle that does about a total of 30ºC raise in temperature over the entire cycle, for the Heavy cycle, I can expect to go further than double that figure if it were used everyday.
But in any case, it is disgusting having only a single rinse. If you open the dishwasher during this phase, you will still see soap-suds in the water. This, then a rinsing agent is added into the water, making your plates unclean and certainly unrinsed. And just imagine, you are EATING all this residual compounds. It isn't healthy!
Whilst the documentation for the DishDrawer does not indicate, both the Delicate and Heavy cycles run three rinses post-wash. I only use these cycles, as I want well-rinsed plates, not "poison-plates," as you might put it.
There is little use in making a cycle simply to satisfy energy requirements, when it requires the user to re-wash/rinse all the plates following the cycle. Why not ensure the machine meets requirements for washing AND rinsing, while saving resources at the same time?
If you have a long pipe run, all this is really guaranteeing is adequate washing performance in the US where dishwashers seem to need 3hrs to heat 3 thimbles worth of water.
In our case here in Australia, where electricity costs about 25c/kWh, it represents a saving of about $16 annually, with water cost factored in. The cost of tap-running for the water is about $4 annually.
The electrical figure may be higher, I only calculated it based upon a cycle that does about a total of 30ºC raise in temperature over the entire cycle, for the Heavy cycle, I can expect to go further than double that figure if it were used everyday.
But in any case, it is disgusting having only a single rinse. If you open the dishwasher during this phase, you will still see soap-suds in the water. This, then a rinsing agent is added into the water, making your plates unclean and certainly unrinsed. And just imagine, you are EATING all this residual compounds. It isn't healthy!
Whilst the documentation for the DishDrawer does not indicate, both the Delicate and Heavy cycles run three rinses post-wash. I only use these cycles, as I want well-rinsed plates, not "poison-plates," as you might put it.
There is little use in making a cycle simply to satisfy energy requirements, when it requires the user to re-wash/rinse all the plates following the cycle. Why not ensure the machine meets requirements for washing AND rinsing, while saving resources at the same time?
Poison-Plates
Considering that rinseaid always remains on the dishes (and thus can't be excessivly harmfull) and it's concentration is about 3-4ml on something like 3-4l in a Miele DW, which adds to 0,1%, I doubt there isn't a real danger. I mean, if you handwash dishes, you don't wash your plates and than rinse them of again 3 times. You wash them and than maybe rinse them ones before you dry them. We don't even rinse them in our home.
3 rinses honestly seem to much. Dishes don't retain water like clothing. So anytime you exchange the water in the sump, the water on the dishes is exchanged pretty much completly as well. Our Bosch always does one interim rinse on the Auto cycle. And it is enough to completly remove any residue.
If you feel uncomfortable about rinseaid, Miele suggests vinegar as a substitution in the Geeman manuals (though, I can't remember which concentration they say to use). Can't say how well that works.
Considering that rinseaid always remains on the dishes (and thus can't be excessivly harmfull) and it's concentration is about 3-4ml on something like 3-4l in a Miele DW, which adds to 0,1%, I doubt there isn't a real danger. I mean, if you handwash dishes, you don't wash your plates and than rinse them of again 3 times. You wash them and than maybe rinse them ones before you dry them. We don't even rinse them in our home.
3 rinses honestly seem to much. Dishes don't retain water like clothing. So anytime you exchange the water in the sump, the water on the dishes is exchanged pretty much completly as well. Our Bosch always does one interim rinse on the Auto cycle. And it is enough to completly remove any residue.
If you feel uncomfortable about rinseaid, Miele suggests vinegar as a substitution in the Geeman manuals (though, I can't remember which concentration they say to use). Can't say how well that works.
When I Wash Plates
They aren't rinsed three times, but rinsed thoroughly.
If you look at the rinse water during the 1st, 2nd and 3rd rinses, you'd see why I am concerned - there are still suds, and cloudiness in the water until the third rinse.
I don't want that on my plates, same with rinse-aid. It all adds up over time, unfortunately.
Neither detergent nor rinse-aid are products that one should be ingesting (it says so on the bottle) - and I'm also sure most people eat enough fibre in their diets without needing detergent to keep the intestinal tract clean.
They aren't rinsed three times, but rinsed thoroughly.
If you look at the rinse water during the 1st, 2nd and 3rd rinses, you'd see why I am concerned - there are still suds, and cloudiness in the water until the third rinse.
I don't want that on my plates, same with rinse-aid. It all adds up over time, unfortunately.
Neither detergent nor rinse-aid are products that one should be ingesting (it says so on the bottle) - and I'm also sure most people eat enough fibre in their diets without needing detergent to keep the intestinal tract clean.
The water movement in a DW can be enough to create bubbles without any detergent residue.
And one shouldn't inhale chlor gas - yet, when ever one uses bleach containing Cl, some reactions end up producing chlor gas. One should stay away from radiation - yet, I will have spent round about 22 hours on a plane at 33000ft by the end of November. Paracetamol (not sure if it got a different name in english) can severly damage your lever - yet, it is the most sold pain killer in Germany.
Of course, there will be always some residue - but does a part per million still cause harm?
If you feel better if your dishes are rinsed 3 times, I can understand that. But it's still OK to question if it is really necessary.
And one shouldn't inhale chlor gas - yet, when ever one uses bleach containing Cl, some reactions end up producing chlor gas. One should stay away from radiation - yet, I will have spent round about 22 hours on a plane at 33000ft by the end of November. Paracetamol (not sure if it got a different name in english) can severly damage your lever - yet, it is the most sold pain killer in Germany.
Of course, there will be always some residue - but does a part per million still cause harm?
If you feel better if your dishes are rinsed 3 times, I can understand that. But it's still OK to question if it is really necessary.
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