Modern Dishwashers

[dalangdon]

My partner and I are in the process of buying a house which doesn't have a dishwasher. Unfortunately, I have to leave my vintage KitchenAid behind (It is basically cemented into the cabinets) so I am opting for a brand new dishwasher. Here are my questions (Try not to snicker - I've never dealt with a residential dishwasher more modern than the late 60's :

1.) Do modern dishwashers use both hot and cold water feeds?

2.) Do they have to be hooked up to a garbage disposal?

3.) Who makes the best dishwashers? As a native Iowan, I am leaning towards Maytag.

4.) What is the "must have" feature these days?

 

[appnut]

Dan

1) hot water
2) depends upon local code, in houston I had to, here I don't see it at all
3) I"m sorry to say, I don't want ya to be siappointed, Maytags aren't what they used to be. everyone has their favorites. But I would caution everyone on the club, if you really don't have up-to-date knowledge on modern dishwashers, please don't try & recommend something made even 5years ago, not the same machines.

HOw mucgh r u willing to spend? Of any of the WP brands, the Kenmore is consistently rated as high as Bosch--has something to do with spray arm design vs. the WP & KA labels./brands. A couple here have been very pleased with their GE tall tubs too. And the DishDrawers. High end Askos are good, some have forced air drying. Bosch uses condenser drying, no heating elements. And same with most Mieles.

Dan, it just depends on what ya wanna spend.

4) Most high-end models have just about any "feature" on the market today. I actually can't think of anythihng that's a "must-have" for me and I love modern dishwashers.

Now it will be intersting to see what we have to say here henceforth.

Bob

 

[DADoES]

To continue from Bob's advice, some dishwashers CAN be connected to cold water, those that have assured water heating, but it's optional and results in longer cycle times to allow for heating to the target temp. A few of the Euro-style machines that have lower-temp cycles for crystal and delicate items work best with cold water so they can heat to the specific temp of the cycle. The incoming hot water may otherwise already be higher than the target temp, negating the purpose of the lower-temp cycle.

As discussed on THS (ThatHomeSite.com) a few of the Euro-style models (Miele and Bosch), I forget which models exactly, supposedly use a condensation drying system that pretty much requires a cold water connection. If I understand correctly, drying works by cooling the outside of the tank with cold water to condense moisture off the hot dishes (hot from the final rinse water) where it's drained away. The cold-water cooling is likely only an intermittent trickle or spray, not like the vintage combo washer/dryers with condensation drying that may run a gal/min.

 

[kenmore1978]

new DW

take a sampling of what you are going to be washing and check the loading on each machine.

Friend of mine just bought a new DW and was surprised that he had difficulty finding a machine that still the the "Rinse Only" cycle.

 

[petek]

Dan, right now I'm in the Miele camp. I waited and waited till the day I could get one.. then we moved to the country and this house had the bottom of the bol GE dw and I had to make do with that, the plastic interior looked like those yellow ceilings in Toggles picture after about 6 months and I couldn't remove the rust stains no way.. That was enough to toss it out and get a SS diswhasher and so came home the Miele. Stainless and extreme quietness were the most important deciding factor because our house is open. Great machine, excellent washer, no pre rinsing EVER, mine has forced air drying they call TurboThermic, hidden water heater element, built in water softner and it's just so quiet you can't hear it washing.. We got their lowest cost model, except for the turbothermic feature..3 wash cycles, rinse'n'hold, etc..
Some people gripe, well you have to clean the filter..hardly ever and it takes 20 seconds at the most to lift it out and rinse it under the tap. Well worth it for virtual diwshwashing silence.
Mom on the other hand bought a Whirpool Quiet Wash II, plastic interior but she has bleached city water so no staining.. it works very well, she's very happy with it and it's not that noisy but her kitchen is removed from the den and livingroom. It would distract me in my house though but not near like the GE did or our older WP in the previous house.

 

[petek]

Little Ben licked but the Miele outperformed him

 

[toggleswitch]

IMHO:

Here is what is essential..

Maytag makes a decent enough machine, but the silverware basket in the middle (L to R) of the front of the lower basket is the absolute worse place. Kills ability to load two large pots in a "lazy" emergency.. LOL I much prefer it in the front or to the side.

SO that said. I'd look for:

Flat, sqaure easy-to-load racks (compare WP to Maytag)
Placement of silverware basket
No tower or cutouts on the bottom
Mechanical timers, not electronic (this is the tough one)
SS interior (nice but no biggie) [cool dry avoids stains in plastic]
Easy to use "Rinse only"

So in summary, fitting toggles ctieria are:

The BOL Bosch
The WP/KA series
Ffrigidaire.
GE tall/tub- some models (they are water hogs but do a very nice job.)

As we have said countless times EVERYONE is entitled to Toggle's opinion.

GOOD LUCK! Let us know "where" you land!

 

[toggleswitch]

PeteK :

And who is this Miele person?

 

[runematic]

Some Maytags have a split-n-fit silverware basket, so you can seperate it and make more room. I sell a ton of 'em. Decent machine since they got the motor/impeller situation taken care of. I got a brand new s.s. GE TOL dw given to me (from a local bigbox store) because the door hinges were welded wrong from the factory. I fixed it & installed it at home to try it out & compare it to the Maytags I sell. Very quiet. BUT I HATE IT! It doesn't wash clean, and YOU CAN'T LOAD VERY MUCH IN IT! THE WORST RACKING SYSTEM OUT THERE. I should have stayed with the Maytag.

 

[parunner58]

Dan,

I agree with Bob, Maytags are not the same. My sister bought MOL one two years ago and they are now having electrical trouble with it. It just stops in mid cycle. I had one of the last Hobart made KA Supberba's and I miss it, I think we got saw dust in the motor and killed it when it was 13-14 years old. I have a TOL Frigidaire Gallery but they did not come with the stainless interior, it is silent, washers great but now that it is older the tub is disolored and we have the bleached out city water. My other sister has a Bosch and thiers is a great performer. I think when we need a new one I may opt for Bosch, Miele, or F&P Dish Drawer.

Mike

 

[veg-o-matic]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I have a BOL Roper that I absolutely love. Got rid of a crappyass GE machine that never got anything clean.
Only problem with the Roper is that the silverware basket is much too small. I was going to get a bigger WP one from a parts store when I ran across one at the Goodwill for .50.
I NEVER pre-rinse. Just lazy that way; I figure the dishwasher is supposed to handle that.

veg

 

[maytagbear]

Even though it is BOL, or close,

I love my GE portable.--GSC3200J01WW.

Of course, it was a gift from friends. I have found that loading counts a lot in this GE. Also, so does using a enzyme detergent. For a portable, it is amazingly quiet. In the previous two apartments, I had the very BOL GE built in model. It was noisier than this one, and didn't clean as well.

Of all the ones I have used, I miss my first one, the belt-drive Maytag. My friend Linda has a new Maytag, one year old, and so far, she's had excellent luck with it, and she and her two teenagers go through a lot of dishes...I bet it is run daily.

I certainly would look at KitchenAid, Whirlpool, Maytag, and Miele. I'm dubvious about Bosch and Asko, based on CR's reliability scores.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[dalangdon]

Thanks!

Wow, thanks for all the replies! As far as price goes, I'm happy to spend money on quality, but not on labels. I don't need a "Glam Brand" if something a bit more mundane (Kenmore, GE, etc) can do the job just as well

 

[brisnat81]

Miele G2220

Hi Guys,

I bought a Miele G2220 a couple of months ago, and its so far the best dishwasher I've ever owned.

Its a tall tub model, with the upper cutlery tray. Initially I was unsure about the practicality of such an invention, but now I love it. You group like items together, and then just scoop them out when its done.

I take the filter out to check it, but so far I've never had to clean it, and I dont pre-rinse. The only thing that upset it so far, was a piece of celery, and the stringy bits got entangled around the bottom of the filter and wouldnt drain away.

The G2220 doesnt use water for drying, there is a fan in the top of the cabinet, which pulls the hot air out of the cabinet, down the side, through a heat exchanger and exits at the front of the machine. The fresh air intake is in the bottom left hand side of the cabinet. At the end of the drying cycle (30mins) the dishwasher is cool, and pretty much everything (Except Teflon and some plastics) is totaly dry.

A normal sensor wash cycle with cold water takes about 2 hours, but this could be longer if you were only running 110V.

The biggest thing I found to check, was that your longest wine glasses and widest tumblers fit in the upper rack, ESP if you get the cutlery tray.

In the lower rack, make sure your biggest plates fit, and that plates of different size rack together without wasting space.

Regards

Nathan

 

[brisnat81]

Pic 2 - Bottom Rack

The lower rack

 

[brisnat81]

Pic 3 - Upper Rack

The Upper Rack

 

[brisnat81]

Cuttlery Tray

The very top

 

[toggleswitch]

Funny to me is that we are offered the same pattern/design plastic-laminate coutertop (workbench) right here in the good old USA.

The world truly is becoming one..

 

[kenmore1978]

So

how does the water get to the clutlery rack? Especially with big bowls in the rack underneat? That would never work in our house, there's no way all the roomies would carefully lay al the flatware on edge. It's hard to even get them to put PLATES in correctly. I alwasy have to correct nested plates before running the machine

 

[brisnat81]

Spray Arms

There is a full size spray arm in the top of the cabinet.

The bottom spray arm is plastic with a SS Cover.

The middle arm is plastic

The top arm is SS.

Things still come clean if you lay them on their side, but spoons fill with water.

Regards

Nathan

 

[knitwits1975]

Hello Neighbor. My personal recommendation, if you are going with a built in, is to go to Costco and get Whirlpool Model #DUC600XTPQ0. I absolutely love mine. It has High Temp washing, a hard food disposer, sensor cleaning, and control locks (in case you have children), looks sharp, and is whisper quiet. I bought Mine in February (Installed it on Super Bowl Sunday) when it's predecessor from 1984 bit the dust, and I'm not sure I'd have anything else. When you Buy any appliance from Costco, the Warranty automatically doubles.

 

[petek]

Miele cutlery rack

I passed on the cutlery rack when I got my Miele, It looked to fussy to me lining up everything and also more difficult than the basket which I just lift out and place in the sink or on the counter top to fill or unload..but to each their own. The cutlery tray does remove easily but you just can't set it down on the counter as easily wihtout a clear alley.

 

[brisnat81]

30 - 60 split

Hi Pete,

I agree with that concept, but once I got used to it, it seems to work pretty well. We have a smallish kitchen, so I usually never took the basket out of the dishwasher either. Our cutlery drawers are 1 foot from the dishwasher.

The high end models now have a split cutlery tray, with a 30-60 split. That seems to work very well, but would've cost me an extra $1000 for the privledge.

Regards

Nathan

 

[mielerod69]

G2830SCi

HI Nathan,
glad you like your Miele dishwasher. At $1699 plus $179 for the stainless steel door its great value. I have the TOL Navitronic which I am extremely happy with. I have never had a dishwasher that shines stainless steel like this one.
Regards
Rod

http://au.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rodders1169/album?.dir=e5d2&.src=ph

 

[peterh770]

Having the dishwasher connected to the garbage disposal can cause premature rust and corrosion of the unit. I think it is now recommended that the DW be connected to the drain, not the disposal. That is, unless you spend the money for an all stainless steel model that would resist the corrosion better.

I wouldn't connect the dw to cold water. Heating doesn't happen in all phases of the cycle. Imagine the cracked glasses when the machine goes from a 160 degree wash into a 60 degree (or colder) rinse.

I have a '96 WP that I love. However, with thin little Correllware, it was great and everything fit perfectly. Since then, I have upgraded to Fiestaware, and it don't fit so good. I'd love a Miele, Bosch or even the new LG's, but looking at the racks, I think the Fiestaware will have an even more ill fit in these machines.

I do not like the Maytags. Way to flimsy for me. The new GE's seem to be pretty good, seeing as how GE is trying to improve their quality. Peteski has one, I believe, and praises it. I have heard that the tall tub WP and KA machines are not nearly as good as the regular tub models.

 

[rinso]

The only advice I have is an obvious one in this group. Stay away from RCA, Hotpoint, and GE BOL "contractor" models that often end up in the best of new homes. These machines have no food particle filters and do a worse job than impeller machines of the 50's.

 

[toggleswitch]

I with YOU Pete.....

My tall tub KA (SS interior) is not as good as my '91 WP (avec plastique).

My GE in the basement does a better job, IMHO. (ok uses obscene amounts of water, but hey...that is what water is for..)

 

[brisnat81]

1220scu

Hi Rod

The fact that you can now get a SS fronted Miele for $1599 is amazing, its just a pity that it only comes with the cutlery tray. I didnt want a cutlery tray unless I could get a tall tub model. I drooled over the TOL model, but I couldnt justify it to my better half. Next year I'd like to get a W1983or is it 6 6.5kg Washer. Its almost as much as the TOL, but I'd prefer the bigger capacity over features.

Australian and Euro dishwashers have been connected to Cold water for years, and in most instances now use the heat in the cabinet after the wash to take the chill off for the rinse. In 20 years of having a dishwasher, we've never had anything break due to heat stress, and the last 3 dishwashers have done a 75deg C wash with a 65deg C final rinse.

Regards

Nathan

 

[foraloysius]

Oh, I agree, glass can handle those temperature differences, during the production glass has to deal with some bigger temperature differences, so that wouldn't be a problem. And there are low temperature glass cycles on some European dishwashers. I guess in all 220-240V countries dishwashers are connected to cold. The modern dishwashers that dry with condensing techniques work better on a cold connection than on a hot one.

I'm drooling over those Miele dishwashers. Saw them overhere too. Expensive machines but very nice design.

 

[toggleswitch]

Racking:

My old KA from 91 had 5 rows in the upper rack to fit glases, cups, mugs (beakers) etc.

The new KA has 4 rows, ostensibly to fit new big-mouthed, and oversized drinking vessels.

The GE in my basement has a large deep upper rack with very short times/spikes in the middle, so it can't hold alot of standard sized glasses. BUT in my situation being that it is used in a kitchen used or entertaining large numbers of guests, the top rack in it fits MANY large pots, whereas the cutout on the bottom limits the utility of the lower rack (for my use).