On the things about kitchen tools-they are just that--tools-wether it be a spoon,wisk,or a knife-then we have mixers,food processors,blenders,etc.It is up to the user what the tools are used for and the result.Its like the idea a carpenter can build a home or a peice of furniture with hand tools or power tools.Which do you think he is more likely going to use?Esp if he has to build MANY homes or peices of furniture-undoudtedly he will use the power tools.Its the same idea if you have a lot of food to prepare-you will most likely use the powered appliances.The ideal thing is to have both carpenters and chefs trained in the use of BOTH-hand tools and powered equipment.And to be trained when the use of the powered appliance is appropriate.But yes-for either job-the end result is most important-to sum up-use the "tools" you feel most comfortable with.
More KitchenAid Complaints
- Thread starter tolivac
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The first Cuisinart food processors were made by the company that made the big ones for commercial kitchen use.
Mark has experience with cakes from world famous chefs, but somehow, I would think that in the chef's kitchen, there would be assistants who would do some of the tasks that were done by hand. I don't see why a chef would feel that a cake prepared, at least partially, with a mixer would be inferior. Some baking experts do say that they fold in the flour by hand and that's great. I don't get paid to bake and I am doing baking when I can squeeze it in with all of the other stuff so I mix a cake start to finish in a mixer, but I don't use a "box mix." I also wash clothes in a washing machine and use the dryer to dry them. Electric mixers certainly improved cakes made in the home because they eliminated the variables in the amount and quality of the mixing, based largely on the strength of the person preparing the batter, or the strength of others who could help. Julia Child used the mixer and some of her guests on "Baking With Julia" used the mixer. My mother would only make Angel Food cakes by hand with a spoon-shaped whisk. She thought a mixer toughened the cake, but she is not one who is anxious to try any new method or equipment. I remember the tiny bit of almond extract she added to the cake. The first time I smelled original Jergens hand lotion, I thought of Angel Food cakes.
Mark has experience with cakes from world famous chefs, but somehow, I would think that in the chef's kitchen, there would be assistants who would do some of the tasks that were done by hand. I don't see why a chef would feel that a cake prepared, at least partially, with a mixer would be inferior. Some baking experts do say that they fold in the flour by hand and that's great. I don't get paid to bake and I am doing baking when I can squeeze it in with all of the other stuff so I mix a cake start to finish in a mixer, but I don't use a "box mix." I also wash clothes in a washing machine and use the dryer to dry them. Electric mixers certainly improved cakes made in the home because they eliminated the variables in the amount and quality of the mixing, based largely on the strength of the person preparing the batter, or the strength of others who could help. Julia Child used the mixer and some of her guests on "Baking With Julia" used the mixer. My mother would only make Angel Food cakes by hand with a spoon-shaped whisk. She thought a mixer toughened the cake, but she is not one who is anxious to try any new method or equipment. I remember the tiny bit of almond extract she added to the cake. The first time I smelled original Jergens hand lotion, I thought of Angel Food cakes.
Purist
I have degrees from 3 Culinary Institutes. In every case we were taught the CLASSICS. Chefs used to grab tools from your hands and throw things across the kitchen and threat staff like slaves. It did not matter if it took you an hour to make pesto, because there were many other chefs working in legion to create the finished product. Thankfully congress, HR and litigation has removed much of that from the work place. Food is a blend of technology, chemistry and artistry. There is seldom a right or wrong, but acceptable variations on a theme. Like beauticians who cultivate a clientele with their style, so does the chef.
However there is a perfect world and then, there is the world we live in. Every commercial kitchen in the US is tightly managed by profit and productivity. Appliances, applied correctly can produce excellent results, quickly and efficiently. Today's cook better work smart and as the old saying goes, "shove the broom up your butt and sweep the floor as you go!" Efficiency and multi tasking make you a valuable asset as an employee.
I began cooking, because of my love for the tools. Then I studied cooking and then food technology and science. Often, my task was to take a perfect process, apply it to every conceivable variable when exposed to the lowest common denominator of skill and intelligence and engineer the tolerance in process and ingredient to make the best outcome. For me the joy of cooking is based on, how many tools and appliances you get to use.
Tolerance is the key word, there is a place for us all.
Kelly
I have degrees from 3 Culinary Institutes. In every case we were taught the CLASSICS. Chefs used to grab tools from your hands and throw things across the kitchen and threat staff like slaves. It did not matter if it took you an hour to make pesto, because there were many other chefs working in legion to create the finished product. Thankfully congress, HR and litigation has removed much of that from the work place. Food is a blend of technology, chemistry and artistry. There is seldom a right or wrong, but acceptable variations on a theme. Like beauticians who cultivate a clientele with their style, so does the chef.
However there is a perfect world and then, there is the world we live in. Every commercial kitchen in the US is tightly managed by profit and productivity. Appliances, applied correctly can produce excellent results, quickly and efficiently. Today's cook better work smart and as the old saying goes, "shove the broom up your butt and sweep the floor as you go!" Efficiency and multi tasking make you a valuable asset as an employee.
I began cooking, because of my love for the tools. Then I studied cooking and then food technology and science. Often, my task was to take a perfect process, apply it to every conceivable variable when exposed to the lowest common denominator of skill and intelligence and engineer the tolerance in process and ingredient to make the best outcome. For me the joy of cooking is based on, how many tools and appliances you get to use.
Tolerance is the key word, there is a place for us all.
Kelly
Disbelief
My pussy is shocked! She cannot believe this 300.00 Kitchenaid Artisan (no I never pay retail) leaves 1/2 cup of butter/sugar creamed mixture, untouched at the bottom of every recipe. The spatuala points to the small amount of sugary dough that ruins every recipe unless you manually turn the dough or batter upside down and mix again. Certainly not the end of the world but an agrravation. The new 6 qt and the 5 qt Kitchenaid Epicurian and Pro5 with the wider, flatter bowls, mix everything perfectly and leave more room to add ingredients. They just sound like "a long tailed cat caught in a room full of rockers."
End of drama,
Kelly
My pussy is shocked! She cannot believe this 300.00 Kitchenaid Artisan (no I never pay retail) leaves 1/2 cup of butter/sugar creamed mixture, untouched at the bottom of every recipe. The spatuala points to the small amount of sugary dough that ruins every recipe unless you manually turn the dough or batter upside down and mix again. Certainly not the end of the world but an agrravation. The new 6 qt and the 5 qt Kitchenaid Epicurian and Pro5 with the wider, flatter bowls, mix everything perfectly and leave more room to add ingredients. They just sound like "a long tailed cat caught in a room full of rockers."
End of drama,
Kelly
Kelly, I agree completely. I was the kitchen manager/lead cook (I'm not a trained chef) for a catering business for 8 years and I learned quickly that you have to balance handmade vs. machine-assisted in order to keep the books in the black. Labor is always the biggest expenditure in a business like that. We had standards---I insisted all sauces and breads be made from scratch, for instance---but we definitely took advantage of time-saving appliances in the kitchen. You'd sink yourself in labor costs if you, for instance, shredded carrots on box graters for carrot cake to feed 500 people. It truly is a balancing act.
Then there's always the front room waitstaff issue and while most clients won't be able to tell if the bread dough was kneaded by hand, they will be very impressed if your waitstaff/guest ratio is 20 to 1.
Cute cat, BTW.
Then there's always the front room waitstaff issue and while most clients won't be able to tell if the bread dough was kneaded by hand, they will be very impressed if your waitstaff/guest ratio is 20 to 1.
Cute cat, BTW.
Tools--thats the reason I like to cook-I am no profesional chef-but I do have a collection of kitchen tools ans well as woodworking ones-I do more "Kitchenworking" but have done woodworking and carpentry as well-and yes-can most people tell wether the food was prepared by hand or machine-or the furniture they own-was it built by the carpenter with hand tools or power tools?As Kelly pointed out-you need both.Yes--I use my knives and other hand tools as well as the powered ones-I would do more woodworking--but the price of lumber has made furniture building almost cost prohbitive.for the price of the wood-esp that "designer priced-shrinked wrapped" stuff at HD--you could buy the furniture.I am not kidding-I found Oak random lenghts and widths lumber in shrinkwrapped bundles at HD for woodworking projects-this was not flooring.another way to put it-MEN are fascinated by the tools used in various jobs-wether it be carpentry-cooking,metalworking-or even earthmoving.Sounds like Kelly has a good colection of mixers-I have a large collection of blenders-love fixing various types of shakes and smooothies-mine are used everyday.Esp fond of vita-Mix and blendtec.Blendtec also makes a mixer type machine.don't know what its like-haven't used it.Kelly-Have you used the Electrolux-"Assistant" mixer?sort of curious of this machine-get the impression its intended for folks that like to bake MANY loaves of bread at one time.instead of beaters or whisks-it uses a rotating bowel and a scraper and roller to knead or mix the ingredients.
Electrolux
The Electrolux shares a design concept with the Bosch, the StarMix and many others that have a center post, turning a pair of beaters on an egg beater type gear. The dough hook is metal. The machines mix very well. The beaters are whisk like and after much heavy mixing bend and need to be replaced.
The motor on the Electrolux sits under the bowl and the fact it is direct, not belt driven, gives it an edge over the Bosch. I find them very cumbercome to use, but they are durable.
Kelly
The Electrolux shares a design concept with the Bosch, the StarMix and many others that have a center post, turning a pair of beaters on an egg beater type gear. The dough hook is metal. The machines mix very well. The beaters are whisk like and after much heavy mixing bend and need to be replaced.
The motor on the Electrolux sits under the bowl and the fact it is direct, not belt driven, gives it an edge over the Bosch. I find them very cumbercome to use, but they are durable.
Kelly
Kelly:I have a cookbook from the 70's that features recipes for Kitchen Aid mixers,Cuisnart Food processor-and lastly for the StarMix food processor mixer-Was looking for a StarMix-would be an interesting machine to use.On these machines -does the bowel actually rotate-In one catalog I have they described the Electrolux machine with a rotating bowel and a roller and scraper that attaches to the machine.Does it have another power takeoff to rotate the beater or whisk?Now I am not so clear as to how the electrolux machine actually works.also the book mentions other attachments for the machine-such as a meat grinder,and grain grinder.Would LOVE to grind my own-but it is SO expensive to get the wheat berries at health food stores.And the ones out here don't have it.I would grind the wheat berries in the Vita-Mix-does it very well.Then, of course use the KA or Kenwood mixer to prepare the dough. I don't have the grain grinder attachments for the KA or Kenwood mixers.For meat-I have a grinder that I got from Cabelas.Better than any mixer mounted one-and easier to clean than the plastic grinder for the KA mixer.I grind my own hamburger meat.Won't buy it from a store.
Grain Grinders
My kids in Kansas, have the meat grinder from Cabellas for the venison they get.
The grain grinder on a Kitchenaid really makes it labor. I would not recommend it for any but the casual user. It is very important the grain is properly dried or it gums the wheels.
There was a time when grinding was needed to get fresh flours and nutritious breads. So many good markets exist now that provide organic flours and some even let you mill the grain at the store, it made me wonder how much I would actually use my own mill.
The Electrolux does not have a governor control for speed like the Kenwood and the Kitchenaid, which is always the weakest link in any mixer. The Electrolux, StarMix can run for hours and there aren't any internal gears to go. If something wears out, it is the attachment you put on the PTO.
Kelly
My kids in Kansas, have the meat grinder from Cabellas for the venison they get.
The grain grinder on a Kitchenaid really makes it labor. I would not recommend it for any but the casual user. It is very important the grain is properly dried or it gums the wheels.
There was a time when grinding was needed to get fresh flours and nutritious breads. So many good markets exist now that provide organic flours and some even let you mill the grain at the store, it made me wonder how much I would actually use my own mill.
The Electrolux does not have a governor control for speed like the Kenwood and the Kitchenaid, which is always the weakest link in any mixer. The Electrolux, StarMix can run for hours and there aren't any internal gears to go. If something wears out, it is the attachment you put on the PTO.
Kelly
Kelly:At this point won't get any grain mills-because wheat berries are just not available in my area-Could get them in the Wash DC area-but it was expensive.Probably the best areas for wwheat berries for human consumption is in the midwest areas.During the times I used frehly ground flour-the bread was much better.The Vita-mix did a good job of grinding the grain.Blendtec does make a grain mill.It has been said the machine does a fine job.I now just buy my bread at the store-Pepperidge farm makes a very good dark whole wheat bread.Also the Vita-mix ground flour worked well in my bread machine.
When I use my Cabela grinder-I only prepare enough ground meat to eat for that meal-don't like to store ground meat.the machine is easy to use and clean-for the most part you can put the parts in the dishwasher.Both the StarMix and the Electrolux sound like fine interesting machines.Maybe someday.
When I use my Cabela grinder-I only prepare enough ground meat to eat for that meal-don't like to store ground meat.the machine is easy to use and clean-for the most part you can put the parts in the dishwasher.Both the StarMix and the Electrolux sound like fine interesting machines.Maybe someday.
Mixmaster:
The Kenwood mixers (rebadged in a lot of places as DeLonghi, Hamilton Beach, many others) are a good alternative to the new crappy generation of KitchenAid mixers. I still have and use a K5 from 1977 that has been repaired once. If I had to purchase new I would get a Kenwood 7 qt. or one of its clones. The Viking seems OK, but it is very noisy. See if you can find a Hobart "Cream Whipper" (Hobart's 5 qt. professional gear-driven version of the KitchenAid) on ebay. They're indestructible.
The Kenwood mixers (rebadged in a lot of places as DeLonghi, Hamilton Beach, many others) are a good alternative to the new crappy generation of KitchenAid mixers. I still have and use a K5 from 1977 that has been repaired once. If I had to purchase new I would get a Kenwood 7 qt. or one of its clones. The Viking seems OK, but it is very noisy. See if you can find a Hobart "Cream Whipper" (Hobart's 5 qt. professional gear-driven version of the KitchenAid) on ebay. They're indestructible.
Hobart 5qt Professional
The 5 qt professional is much heavy and more well built. It has a wider motor housing, making the addition of ingedient more difficult. It has three fixed speeds, not infinite. To change speeds, you must turn the motor off and wait for it to come to a complete stop, then change the gear box and turn the machine on again. It isn't convenient enough to make it worth the investment.
Thanks,
Kelly
The 5 qt professional is much heavy and more well built. It has a wider motor housing, making the addition of ingedient more difficult. It has three fixed speeds, not infinite. To change speeds, you must turn the motor off and wait for it to come to a complete stop, then change the gear box and turn the machine on again. It isn't convenient enough to make it worth the investment.
Thanks,
Kelly
