Huge Help! Do you have any reference or pics to the Pope Norge design from 1976 to the 1980s?
Fascinating history I ever knew existed.
Fascinating history I ever knew existed.
My 1970's Kelvinator 184 has arrived.
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That agitator in reply #4 sure looks a lot more like the agitator that should uld be there, but the Maytag at least looks a lot less-busier and more what I'm used to seeing there...
-- Dave
-- Dave
This washer appears to be spin-drain, as all top load washers should be.
The overload and imbalance light is a nice touch.
The overload and imbalance light is a nice touch.
Vídeo
Here's the video done 16 years ago.
Here's the video done 16 years ago.
Reply # 32
"This washer appears to be spin-drain, as all top load washers should be".
Water still has to go through the clothes regardless of whether it spin drains or neutral drains.
I would think a spin drain would force dirt and grit into the fabric more so than a free-flowing neutral drain.
"This washer appears to be spin-drain, as all top load washers should be".
Water still has to go through the clothes regardless of whether it spin drains or neutral drains.
I would think a spin drain would force dirt and grit into the fabric more so than a free-flowing neutral drain.
Neutral drain versus spin drain
Post number 34, you’re absolutely correct Patrick.
Any engineer can figure this out whirlpool figure this out when they designed their first automatic, the first Blackstone, which is the first top load automatic also neutral drained.
We all know the history of this issue and one thing to keep in mind is that any TL washer design ever made that could do a neutral drain Did a neutral drain because simple engineering common sense will tell you that it works better.
There are many on the site that love the drama of spin drain, and I will admit it’s fun to watch, and of course, the companies that were saddled with this inferior way of getting the water out of the tub because of the design of their machines and the people who wrote their ad copy, made up all kinds of excuses why they claimed it was better, but in the end they all went to neutral drain.
There is only one spin drain top loading washer still produced the Speed Queen TC5 series, and when it’s sold in Canada and Australia, they have to put a drain pump and do a neutral drain because consumers can see the difference with the amount of dirt and lint that’s left in the clothing since they don’t use clothes dryers as often in those countries, which is a pretty stunning admission that it doesn’t work as well and everybody knows it.
John L
John L
Post number 34, you’re absolutely correct Patrick.
Any engineer can figure this out whirlpool figure this out when they designed their first automatic, the first Blackstone, which is the first top load automatic also neutral drained.
We all know the history of this issue and one thing to keep in mind is that any TL washer design ever made that could do a neutral drain Did a neutral drain because simple engineering common sense will tell you that it works better.
There are many on the site that love the drama of spin drain, and I will admit it’s fun to watch, and of course, the companies that were saddled with this inferior way of getting the water out of the tub because of the design of their machines and the people who wrote their ad copy, made up all kinds of excuses why they claimed it was better, but in the end they all went to neutral drain.
There is only one spin drain top loading washer still produced the Speed Queen TC5 series, and when it’s sold in Canada and Australia, they have to put a drain pump and do a neutral drain because consumers can see the difference with the amount of dirt and lint that’s left in the clothing since they don’t use clothes dryers as often in those countries, which is a pretty stunning admission that it doesn’t work as well and everybody knows it.
John L
John L
Spin drain prevents scum rings from forming around the agitator, tub rim and outer tub. I know this because every neutral drain washer I owned formed thick scum rings where the water level normally rests.
I also found hair, lint and scum floating at the top of the water would end up resting on top of the clothing pile during neutral drain instead of being pull up to the sides and away.
Spin draining fans the clothes out as they stick to the wash basket during spin greatly reducing wrinkling and helping water extraction.Towels peal right off at the end of the cycle instead of undoing a giant toroidal clump.
I also found hair, lint and scum floating at the top of the water would end up resting on top of the clothing pile during neutral drain instead of being pull up to the sides and away.
Spin draining fans the clothes out as they stick to the wash basket during spin greatly reducing wrinkling and helping water extraction.Towels peal right off at the end of the cycle instead of undoing a giant toroidal clump.
John, scum rings aren't any better or an accomplishment. Washers ought to be self cleaning and not become the initial clothes being placed inside of them in the first place.
Neutral drain reduces wear on parts, you don't need intensive slipping of a clutch or belt lasting for near 120 seconds or have to deal with the added torque and mechanical load exhibited. Anything that reduced such requirements cheapened the build cost of the washer. A primary target of all manufacturers hence why so many went that route.
However, that doesn't mean it is any better for the consumer or the cleaning process. I am very, very happy to have a self cleaning washer thanks the ingenious and common sense engineering taking place. It is something I will never take for granted in the time I have it.
Neutral drain reduces wear on parts, you don't need intensive slipping of a clutch or belt lasting for near 120 seconds or have to deal with the added torque and mechanical load exhibited. Anything that reduced such requirements cheapened the build cost of the washer. A primary target of all manufacturers hence why so many went that route.
However, that doesn't mean it is any better for the consumer or the cleaning process. I am very, very happy to have a self cleaning washer thanks the ingenious and common sense engineering taking place. It is something I will never take for granted in the time I have it.
Chet as usual, you are dreaming you have no connection to reality. You should go get a job and work in the real world stop being a burden to your parents.
You might actually learn something about appliances if you had to work on them and deal with customers and their real experiences rather than making up things.
I have no scum rings in any of my belt drive neutral drain whirlpools if you’re getting scum rings it’s because you’re using two little detergent.
I talked to a customer yesterday with a TC5 Speed Queen and they’re all concerned about the scum rings at the top of the tub. It has nothing to do with neutral drain or not.
John L
You might actually learn something about appliances if you had to work on them and deal with customers and their real experiences rather than making up things.
I have no scum rings in any of my belt drive neutral drain whirlpools if you’re getting scum rings it’s because you’re using two little detergent.
I talked to a customer yesterday with a TC5 Speed Queen and they’re all concerned about the scum rings at the top of the tub. It has nothing to do with neutral drain or not.
John L
Reply #37
So what do you gain by getting lint thrown back onto your clothes ?
So what do you gain by getting lint thrown back onto your clothes ?
John, I can only deduce two things from your reply: 1) You are calling me delusional 2) You are calling me a liar.
As I said, I have first had experience doing laundry in both neutral drain and spin drain washers for decades. Spin drain has consistently produced better results for me than neutral drain. Being a career appliance service tech won't change my lived observations doing laundry.
I use plenty of good quality detergent like Tide Professional, perhaps a little to much. Fabric softener only on occasion.
I have no scum rings on or around my Speed Queen agitator, and none where the normal water level makes contact with the wash basket. In stark contrast to the DDs I had in the past.
Pat, no lint is thrown back on the clothes in my washer. Most of it is pulled up and away.
As I said, I have first had experience doing laundry in both neutral drain and spin drain washers for decades. Spin drain has consistently produced better results for me than neutral drain. Being a career appliance service tech won't change my lived observations doing laundry.
I use plenty of good quality detergent like Tide Professional, perhaps a little to much. Fabric softener only on occasion.
I have no scum rings on or around my Speed Queen agitator, and none where the normal water level makes contact with the wash basket. In stark contrast to the DDs I had in the past.
Pat, no lint is thrown back on the clothes in my washer. Most of it is pulled up and away.
Reply # 40
Chet I like both types myself, Had Speed Queen in the past and a Westinghouse that spin drained. The good thing about a direct drive is that they generally slip into spin drains anyway and you could always make them spend drain just by raising the lid and closing it.
Chet I like both types myself, Had Speed Queen in the past and a Westinghouse that spin drained. The good thing about a direct drive is that they generally slip into spin drains anyway and you could always make them spend drain just by raising the lid and closing it.
Yup. Personally I think Whirlpool should have just beefed up the clutch instead of going through the trouble of adding a neutral drain gear that doesn't even work as intended half the time.
Reply number 40
Hi Chet yes I would call you delusional. I don’t know if I’d go as far as a liar, but you said it not me.
You are immediately changing the subject. Whirlpool didn’t need to beef up the clutch in their direct drive machine they never had clutch problems with those machines in fact, the original spin drive ones had extremely heavy duty either six pad or one piece pad clutches.
Whirlpool went to a great deal of expense to devise a neutral drain system on the direct drive machines because they were losing sales like crazy and the machines were being returned. It was threatening to doom millions of dollars of investment in the new machine.
Whirlpool and Sears Kenmore customers were used to a very high level of performance and would not tolerate lint Hair and grit in their laundry.
But again, your response goes back to the basic problem. Your one experience in life is not important. It’s the collective experience of thousands of people that are important in the world, again you need to get out of your sandbox and go out and get a job where you actually can do something and see what actually happens in the real world. I wish you luck. Let me know how you do.
John L
Hi Chet yes I would call you delusional. I don’t know if I’d go as far as a liar, but you said it not me.
You are immediately changing the subject. Whirlpool didn’t need to beef up the clutch in their direct drive machine they never had clutch problems with those machines in fact, the original spin drive ones had extremely heavy duty either six pad or one piece pad clutches.
Whirlpool went to a great deal of expense to devise a neutral drain system on the direct drive machines because they were losing sales like crazy and the machines were being returned. It was threatening to doom millions of dollars of investment in the new machine.
Whirlpool and Sears Kenmore customers were used to a very high level of performance and would not tolerate lint Hair and grit in their laundry.
But again, your response goes back to the basic problem. Your one experience in life is not important. It’s the collective experience of thousands of people that are important in the world, again you need to get out of your sandbox and go out and get a job where you actually can do something and see what actually happens in the real world. I wish you luck. Let me know how you do.
John L
Since I’ve used both (My Whirlpool and Maytag), they both have their advantages and disadvantages.
The only downside about a neutral drain is there’s more complexity since you either need a solenoid to engage or disengage agitate or a mechanism like inside the direct drive transmissions. On the other hand, a neutral drain is a little more refined.
While spin drain machines aren’t as refined as a neutral drain machine, there’s less complexity since all you do is change directions of the motor, one way for agitation, the other to drain and spin the water out though some solid tub machines do use a solenoid to change from agitate to spin.
Each one has their own advantages and disadvantages.
The only downside about a neutral drain is there’s more complexity since you either need a solenoid to engage or disengage agitate or a mechanism like inside the direct drive transmissions. On the other hand, a neutral drain is a little more refined.
While spin drain machines aren’t as refined as a neutral drain machine, there’s less complexity since all you do is change directions of the motor, one way for agitation, the other to drain and spin the water out though some solid tub machines do use a solenoid to change from agitate to spin.
Each one has their own advantages and disadvantages.
Thats a major cognitive jump John. You're saying if a person has a different life experience than the collective average, then they are delusion. That is straight up invalidation.
Your line of thinking where any one lived experience becomes irrelevant in the face of the majority is precisely behind all the human suffering and subsequent upheaval taking place in the real world today. Racism, bigotry, inequality, discrimination, human rights, institutional failures, bullying, mental health issues, ect are either none existent or irrelevant so long they are not experienced by a majority. When in time such a self absorbed world leads to everyone experiencing inequality where by then it is to late.
The irony of telling me I need to see what happens in the real world when I and hundreds of millions of others can see it better than you let alone lived or continue to live it first hand.
How does this pertain to a discussion at AW-org? You resort to vicious personal attacks because I've consistently obtained better results from spin-drain washers. Calling me delusional because it doesn't fit your all or nothing black and white binary world view. Being (to you) justified by the half dozen followers who bought into the fictitious rumors you make up about me.
I'll ask you again like I did in past threads. Show me service or technical literature by Whirlpool that spin drain was ineffective requiring the engineering or a neutral drain washer.
Your line of thinking where any one lived experience becomes irrelevant in the face of the majority is precisely behind all the human suffering and subsequent upheaval taking place in the real world today. Racism, bigotry, inequality, discrimination, human rights, institutional failures, bullying, mental health issues, ect are either none existent or irrelevant so long they are not experienced by a majority. When in time such a self absorbed world leads to everyone experiencing inequality where by then it is to late.
The irony of telling me I need to see what happens in the real world when I and hundreds of millions of others can see it better than you let alone lived or continue to live it first hand.
How does this pertain to a discussion at AW-org? You resort to vicious personal attacks because I've consistently obtained better results from spin-drain washers. Calling me delusional because it doesn't fit your all or nothing black and white binary world view. Being (to you) justified by the half dozen followers who bought into the fictitious rumors you make up about me.
I'll ask you again like I did in past threads. Show me service or technical literature by Whirlpool that spin drain was ineffective requiring the engineering or a neutral drain washer.
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