My New 'Koh-I-Noor' 2800RPM Spin Dryer

[limey]

Water Extraction, pH and Corrosion

Two Points.

First to Launderess.
Even with ‘line drying’ I still believe it is advantageous to remove as much water as possible because even if all the contaminants produced during the laundering process have been removed, and I doubt that they are, there are still the chemicals in ‘tap water’ to be considered. The more water you leave to be ‘dried out’ rather than ‘extracted’ the more chemicals you will be leaving in your laundry.

Second to Tomturbomatic.
pH values you are talking of would, in my opinion, corrode the aluminium alloy spiders in modern front load washers in very short order.
The MSDS for ‘Chlorox’, put out by the manufacturer is available at: -
http://www.thecloroxcompany.com/products/msds/bleach/cloroxregularbleach0505_.pdf

and gives the pH as 11.4.
The photograph below shows what one drop of bleach, straight from the bottle (5% solution), did to a previously undamaged area of a spider removed from a Frigidaire machine when left overnight.

 

[tomturbomatic]

David, Two things to keep in mind:

Those pH values were for a commercial laundry formula in a commercial machine. The high pH bath was only the first one and, as the author stated, was fairly quickly pulled down from those high pH levels by the acids in the soil in the fabrics. Successive suds baths were not at that high a pH level. As has been discussed here previously, laundering requires alkalinity, not only to remove the soil from the fabrics, but also to deal with the calcium-magnesium salts that make water hard and also make it impossible for soap to work. The great thing about synthetic detergents was that they could contain the builders that previously had to be added separately to wash water to break it before the soap could be added, but they were and are still very alkaline. Maybe the way to save spiders is to give the clothes more rinsing, but most people don't care about that and are not even aware of the spider until it breaks.

The rinsing sequence was very thorough and included an acidic additive to bring the pH back down which benefitted the machine and the fabrics. If alkalinity or soap remains in fabrics, it can cause yellowing during ironing.

Quality detergents have long contained metasilicates to protect metal parts of washers and dishwashers. If the manufacturer of the detergent is not stinting on the necessary amount of this ingredient, it should work to prevent corrosion. Of course, it might also help if domestic machines used adequate amounts of rinse water to neutralize the alkalinity of the detergents. My mother always gave laundry an extra rinse. Many of the service techs who came to work on our washers remarked about how free of corrosion and mineral buildup our washers were.

 

[limey]

Reply to Tom

Thank you for your comments.
Actually I had a brief mental debate with myself on the best way of describing the spiders: Put ‘domestic’ between ‘modern’ and ‘front’, I decided ‘no’ because those in laundromats also have aluminium alloy spiders. Then there are the various names manufacturers’ put on them, ‘axles’ by Stabler (not really a front loader in my mind) ‘trunnions’ by Speed Queen and ‘flanges’ by LG. I selected ‘spider’ as it appears to be almost universally understood as to what the component actually is. I decided on the wording I used as I do not believe the larger commercial washers, as opposed to those in laundromats, have aluminium alloy spiders (I could be in error).

Now as for being able to ‘rinse away’ all traces of alkalinity. In my opinion very few, if any, modern, domestic front loaders are capable of removing ‘all’.
Just over 18 months ago I dismantled one of our Frigidaire built ‘Kenmore’ machines because of failed seal and bearings. The spider was also quite heavily corroded. This I have detailed in other threads on this site so I will not repeat it here.
The upshot of this was that I purchased a new spider and inner drum assembly, and being the cheapskate that I am, and not wanting to ‘give’ Sears and Frigidaire any more of my pension than I had to, I only renewed the bearings and seal.
Well my efforts lasted a little over 18 months before the seal and bearings failed again, why I do not know. It could be that I received a defective bearing(s) and/or seal; it could be I damaged either or both fitting them, or even a combination. It is also possible that the seal just was not capable of standing up to the environment it was subjected to.
All this is irrelevant to the failure of the machines to thoroughly remove all traces of alkalis, but it does explain how I was able to examine a spider that had been in use for only eighteen months.
A picture of the spider, before it was pressure washed is shown below, note the small white spots, they are aluminium oxide, corrosion products. Other than the grease and oxides of iron due to the bearing/seal failure there was nothing else, on the spider or in the inner drum.
Now since its repair 18 months ago this machine has only had Liquid Tide and no other laundry aid put into it. Why therefore would this corrosion occur? I believe, as I have previously stated, that even after the fastest spin, very small quantities of water will remain in these recesses. In addition to the relatively low linear speed at this radius, the outside lips of the webs are only 1-2mm from the face of the seal. This area is not immersed therefore any flushing/cleaning can only be performed by ‘splash’. Not, in my opinion a very effective way of cleaning this area. The water left behind at the end of the last rinse cycle will contain very small quantities of laundry aids used, in this case, Liquid Tide, the pH of which, as it dries out, will increase until such a time a corrosion occurs. This also explains why this type of failure appears more common in little used domestic machines than in heavily used Laundromat examples.

The photograph in the next post shows the spider after cleaning with a pressure washer. Note the aluminium oxide still firmly adhering to the spider. In addition there are now more spots of corrosion visible, the brown deposits resulting from the bearing/seal failure previously covered some.

 

[limey]

Spider Corrosion

Spider shown in post 521458 above after pressure washer cleaning.

 

[launderess]

Oh Lord

It's a holiday weekend, please let us not start *that* dust up again. *LOL*

 

[sudsman]

Exactly what I think too.

He who stir up old shit make big stink!

 

[tomturbomatic]

Sorry.

 

[sudsman]

Tom

Did not mean you at all..

 

[limey]

Spider Corrosion

To Launderess and sudsman.
I would ask you to please closely look at the photographs above and tell me what you believe the white spots on the spider to be. Please note that there are similar ‘spots’ on the rear of the hub, which is between the spider and the stainless steel drum. Should you believe that they are anything other than corrosion I will be more than happy to review your thoughts, and also your ideas as to what has caused them. Heck I might even agree with you.
However should you agree that they are corrosion (aluminium oxide) could you please inform me, in a logical, unemotional manner, how they have occurred and why?

 

[sudsman]

Limey

I am a Laundry Manager NOT a maintaince man. I dont worrry about spider corrsion. in fact in almost 50 years in the laundry I have NEVER had it happen. I have much more important things to worry with.. Budgets that are cut almost every mo. The cost of supplies which increased last mo almost 5 % . A staggering payroll. Director of Nursing that is never happy about anything. and a linen replacement cost that exceeds 30,000.oo a mo. What about spider corrsion????

 

[launderess]

Limey

You know I love you more than my luggage, but after a beautiful holiday weekend nothing could get me dragged into yet another episode of "Corrosion Alley". *LOL*