My other topic..BMW's and Volvos and Saabs

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moonvalleycacti

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Mar 10, 2009
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Ok i have recently noticed that like 2001-2002ish Bmws and Volvos and Saabs and Infinitis have gotten really cheap (10 grandish) and thats my kinda price range for a car.. Have 2 suvs now and would like to try a car again, but does any one own a high end car and whats it cost to own it? I am better off to stick with Hyundai and Ford like i normally do?
 
1987 Volvo 240 and 2002 Saab 9-3.

I love my Saab, but I will not buy another. It's comfortable, fast, great fuel economy, super ergonomics, handles like its on rails, and it holds lots of stuff (last year of the hatchback). All that said, it has been dreadful at the shop! It eats engine mounts, the shift linkage has had many issues, the alternator bearings failed at 60,000 miles, the throttle body had to be replaced, and it just goes on and on. In 2007, it cost my extended warranty company over $5,000.00 in repairs. All this and I drive like an old lady!

My greatest complaint is, however, the Saab dealers! Twice I have been on road trips far from home with the Saab when it has suffered a failure of some sort. On both occasions I called the nearest Saab dealer and said I was on a road trip far from home with car trouble and needed them to look at it. Both times, they said they could not help me for at least a week! As often as my Saab has need a mechanic's attention, I would imagine the dealers would have to have a large staff, and having to wait over a week for an emergency repair is just unacceptable.

My 22 year old Volvo has not only been more reliable than the newer Saab, but it's cheaper to repair and maintain too. Volvo is now owned by Ford and I have heard from friends who own new ones that they aren't what they used to be in terms of reliability.

If I need a second car when my Saab's warranty expires, I will buy a Honda. I don't know anyone who hasn't liked them.
Dave
 
I dont know about the foriegn made high end cars, but I have now both a 2001 Cadillac DeVille and a 2006 Lincoln Town Car.
As for insurance costs it is not bad, a little more than when I had a new Crown Vic and a 17 yr old Buick.
But when it comes to reliability and keeping on the road, the Lincoln has been trouble free and never been in except for regular service.
The Cadillac the Check engine light is always on and it has cost me almost $4000 in repairs this year. and it does not ride or handle nearly as well as the Lincoln which has a nice floagty ride and turns on a dime.
 
I have heard lots of negative comments about newer Saabs and Volvos. The quality apparently went at least partly bye-bye when the companies were bought out by Detroit.

I don't know much about BMW. I see many running around where I live. I get the impression that at best they can last a long time, but when something does go wrong, it's expensive.

Another option worth considering would be VW. They have the same sort of German engineering as BMW. My understanding is that they aren't as reliable as a Honda, and they probably aren't as cheap to fix. But I'm guessing it would be less of a nightmare to deal with than a new Saab. I had a VW years ago, and it was more trouble than a Japanese car, but overall it passbly reliable, and more fun to drive.
 
Volvo

My parents had a 1990 Volvo 240GL automatic for 14 years. It remained squeek and rattle free over some awful roads. Proved to be economical too (30mpg on the highway with air on). Servicing was starting to get dearer, but Volvo covered one repair cost when the car had 145000klm on it saying 'that part should not have failed'! It was the Lambda Sond sensor for the fuel injection and emissions equipment.

They now have a Mitsubishi which is good, but my mother's comments that it is not nearly as easy to park, not as economical and seems to attract car park scratches is valid...

Honda, on the other hand, have never made (well not in the last 35yrs) an unreliable car. Stick to the 4cyl cars and any engine repairs won't be wallet breaking either when compared to the V6. A 5yr old Accord should be similar money and you'll be hard pressed to find better build quality.

On the other hand, I was driven to work once in a BMW when my Citroen was being serviced. The 5 series that was 7yrs old with only 80000klm on it had dashboard rattles that would make GM whince...
 
We currently have a 2003 BMW 325i wagon and a 2008 Volvo S60 2.5T AWD. The Volvo replaced a 2004 Saab 9-5 Linear wagon, which in turn replaced a 2002 Saab 9-3 SE. I’m not a car expert by any stretch, but I’ll share our experiences and opinions.

The BMW has been a really good car. It’s required a few repairs, among them a temperamental self-leveling headlight assembly (bi-xenon repairs = $$$$$) and a new control panel for the HVAC system. The headlight has required several repairs although all of them (plus the HVAC repair) were covered under the factory and extended warranties. Other than those two areas and a few minor hiccups the car has been very durable. My partner loves it and right now has no intention of parting with it. (Our next door neighbors have a 1999 3-series sedan and love it dearly. They, too, have no intention of trading it for something else.) My mom has a similar 2003 wagon but with all-wheel drive and has had only minor repairs on hers (a sensor in the engine and an electric window motor, I think). She also has a 1998 Mercedes that’s nothing like the 1988 Mercedes it replaced. Among the fancy European brands I think Mercedes has slid the farthest in terms of the quality they’re building today versus the quality they used to build.

The 2008 Volvo has been a terrific car. We’ve had it just over a year and half and it hasn’t required any repairs. Personally, I think it’s way more comfortable than the BMW although my partner feels exactly the opposite. I would buy this car all over again if I had to. It’s solid, rattle-free, the materials have a good feel to them, and it does everything it’s supposed to quite well. I wish the city MPG was a little better, but that’s because of the extra heft of the AWD system.

The 2004 Saab was mediocre at best. Some interior components felt okay, while others (such as dash switches and controls) were cheap and plasticky. Ticks and rattles were everywhere. The HVAC system heated and cooled well but blew a moldy smell whenever a/c was used. Two dealers were unable to correct the problem. In fact one service advisor even told me it was just the way the a/c system was designed. Huh? Also, at one point a blade broke off the a/c fan and the car spent three weeks in the dealer’s service department waiting for new parts. I never had anything repaired out of warranty, although I’ve been told by other Saab owners that repairs are very costly. I did replace the front brakes to the tune of around $550. As a precautionary measure we sold the car before the factory warranty expired.

As an aside, our 2004 9-5 had OnStar as an extra-cost option, as did our 2002 9-3. After we had the car for about three years OnStar discontinued providing service to the vehicles with analog wireless equipment like ours. Understandable with the switch to digital, although Saab made no concessions to buyers who paid extra for the OnStar option and were left with systems that no longer functioned. They made some insulting offer to cover a year’s worth of OnStar should I purchase another GM vehicle with the new digital wireless OnStar equipment. I chose to give a Volvo my business instead and couldn’t be happier about it.

The 2002 Saab 9-3 was actually a better car than the 2004 9-5. In hindsight we should have kept it and never purchased the 9-5. It never suffered any major breakdowns, but sounded like a pair of maracas when driving over the smallest bumps in the road. Everything in that car ticked and rattled. That doesn’t bother some people, but I find it endlessly irritating. To this day the 2003 BMW is as tight and rattle-free as it was new, yet Saab can’t seem to build a car that’s free of rattles even for its first year of service. The 9-3’s information display screen had to be replaced after about a year and there was a mysterious faint clunking noise that came from the front left wheel, although the dealer service never could determine the cause.

So based on our experiences, I’d say BMWs and Volvos are good cars, although proceed cautiously with Saabs and Mercedes. Repairs on any of them will be costly, but if you find a well maintained car for a really good price you might still come out ahead even if you have to repair a thing or two.

I think this concludes the longest post I've ever written. :)
 
I finally jumped ship a few months and bought a 1997 Mercedes Benz C280. My 03 Mountaineer had been through 2, going on 3 transmissions, exploded the A/C twice and was having computer problems. Wanted to go back to my roots and get an older Caddy or Lincoln. Hmmm, all the Northstar engines in the price range I could afford were blowing their cylinder heads and the Lincolns, had their expensive issues as well. The one reliable car I kept borrowing is a 1989 Mercedes 560. It just keeps running. So I started looked at Mercedes. I went to a lot of the various message boards and tried to learn something about the cars.

This is a one, possibly two owner car, the husband bought his wife a new Mercedes 300 series for Christmas. They took very good care of the car and used a good independent mechanic. I use the same garage, and they are great. She had 131K at the time I bought it. I have had a few maintenance things done, mainly age related. Expensive for repairs, possibly, but no car payments! The Mercury was $525.00/mo, plus the repair bills.

As far as expense, oil changes are around $75.00 instead of $29.00, tires are reasonable from $60 on up. It has the coldest A/C of any car I've owned. And I was a Phoenix native, so yes, I know A/C! And she does demand premium gas. However with A/C on and mixed driving, I'm getting 20 mpg in town. And the purchase price was about a 1/3rd of your 10K budget. There are deals to be had out there.

How well do I trust the car? This fall will be taking her on a major road trip from Vegas to Disneyworld in Florida, but I'll put that in another post.

5-26-2009-20-40-15--Ironrite.jpg
 
Well, I've got an '08 Mercedes E350, and so far, it has been completely reliable after 35,000 miles. I was a little concerned about Mercedes quality slide in the mid-2000's, but this car has so far been bulletproof.

I found a non-Mercedes service garage that specializes in German cars, so maintenance has been very reasonable, considering the horror stories I've heard from owner's dealer experiences. It really doesn't require much in the way of service - synthetic oil change every 13,000 miles (it's expensive as the car takes 10.5 quarts of oil), synthetic transmission fluid change and fuel filter every 39,000 miles and that's about it. Got a quote for new brakes, front or rear, $199. The extended warranty goes through 100,000 miles, so not too bad. Wouldn't chance owning the car without it, especially with all the electronics the car has.

It's a great driving car, quiet, very quick, smooth, corners well and built like a tank with superior fit and finish.
 
Last summer I bought the bottom end of the Lexus lineup - a 2008 IS250 AWD. It is a little smaller than my Toyota Solara was but it is a very comfortable car to drive, has all the luxury features and options and is AWD which was my #1 priority when buying a car this time around. It is a V-6 and gets slightly lower gas mileage than the Solara - about 27 mpg driving back and forth to work. On a long trip it gets about 32 mpg. Of course if I kept to the speed limit then the gas mileage would be higher :-)

Gary

5-27-2009-07-34-19--countryguy.jpg
 
I have a 1998 BMW 3 series that I love driving and has been relatively reliable. Just took the car in for routine service and my mechanic for the last 30 years mentioned to me that the 3 series from 1994 to 1998 has been the best when compared to newer versions. The repairs may be costly but the car is fun to drive and reliable. You may find a 3 series in your price range and hopefully has been well maintained by the owner. Good luck in your search.
 
Ok
After tons of car shopping and aggravation (most dealers dont believe in 10K cars here)
Honda Accord- The 3 V6's i drove all had some issue and had at least 100K..A 4cyl EX with automatic is ok, but the shift is better...So a 4cyl 5-speed i would deal with
325-This is what i want.. Trying to find a cheaper one.. HARD AS CRAP
VW/Audi-Too expensive for what you get
Sab 9-3.I loved the car, but there was too many noises and questionable things with it
Hyundai Sonata V6-Another Good car, and i liked the one i drove
Toyota Camry V6 No.. Hell No...
Volvo S60.. Great Car, but mantince costs...
Nissan Maxima-Like the car, but none i have found fit my budget
Mazda 6-Nice Car, but too expensive so far
Acura CL/TL-Great cars, but the transmission issues worry me
Lexus ES300-An over priced camry.. And why are they all that sage green/gold color???
Acura RL-I found a 98 with 98K.. cEL on though.. we will see
BMW %-series-Nice car but all over priced and high miles
Infiniti I30-reat Car, but none around.
Subaru Legacy-Nice car want a 5-speed though
 
Honda.

Interestingly, the Accords were designed with the 4 cylinder engine in mind. Access is easier so repairs on 4 cylinder Accords are cheaper. Also, since the V6 is heavier, the 4 cylinder Accords actually handle a little better (not saying the V6 handles poorly, just that the 4 handles better than the V6). Of all the cars listed, I would pick a 4 cylinder Accord with the 5 speed. My 2002 Saab 9-3 SE has a 5 speed and it is now a requirement for me too.

If it doesn't have a clutch pedal, I don't want to buy it,
Dave
 
I would take a look at local garages that specialize in repairing the vehicles that are catching your eye. My garage works on Mercedes, Jaguar, BMW, AUDI. They had a beautiful late 90s or early 2000 BMW 7 Series for around $9700.00. Many times an owner doesn't want to mess with selling their car, so they trust their garage to do it for them.

Also, do check Los Angeles and Vegas here. When I was looking I would check Craigslist for both those areas. BMW was another one I considered and they seem to be priced reasonably here.
 
Not on the list, but a good deal and a greeat dealer...Cadillac dealers who sell to the elderly are wonderful.. LoL

Got me a 1999 ML320 with 100K (literitly has 100001 miles).. Still getting inspected and such, but car road out nice and i like it..).. Now if the spray and wah in my eye will clear up..They are going over it with a fine tooth comb and im excited.. They gave me a 2009 SRX 4 to drive until my new mercedes is ready..Whoo Hoo
 
Enjoy!

I am a big believer in "new to me" cars. I got my 2002 Saab 9-3 2 years old and it cost me less than a new stripped down Toyota Corolla. Congratulations, and enjoy your new wheels.

My best was buying my Volvo. I bought it in June 1999 for $2,800.00. It was 12 years old and had a shade over 115,000 miles. 10 years later I still have it and drive it! Best $2,800.00 I ever spent.

As for being unpatriotic, I don't care, just so long as I have a real actual clutch pedal. I am one of a dying breed of hard-core manual transmission drivers, but I won't go down without a fight. When I was looking for a car last time (and got my Saab) I told the salespeople at a few dealerships that I required a manual transmission. If they disagreed, I emphasized my point. I actually walked out of a few dealerships because just didn't get that it was a non-negotiable issue.

Congrats,
Dave
 
Congrats!

You'll enjoy that and it sounds like a good deal as well. I listed the link to Benzworld below. Good forums for a lot of info on your vehicle, plus they have forums there for non-Stealership garages. My local MBZ dealer wanted $134.00 for an oil change. My local garage $74.00 and they use MBZ parts for it as well. Plus, if I understand it right, there is a special way to prime the engine after the oil change, so I won't trust it to one of smaller oil change only shops.

Post of pic when you can.

 

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