Need help choosing a washer dryer

[oliveoiltinfoil]

Hello everyone! Newbie on this site, having come from vacuumland!

Also, thanks unimatic1140 for activating me after the hitch up :3

I am in the market for a washer dryer. Now I don't know yours opinions on washer dryers, but I currently have a Hotpoint Aquiltis XXXL or whatever its called, which I got in 2006 and in fairness has given me complete trouble free service.

Well I say that, around 2 years ago, the control panel started acting funny, where it wouldn't register button presses, and the panel wouldn't light up. Also, a more serious problem, is it has started rusting, badly. It is a poor design on hotpoints part. I will try and post a picture shortly which shall point out what I mean. It has never actually let me down, however.

Any of you familiar with these machine, the detergent draw it hidden inside the door, but the draw hole is surrounded in a metal frame. I thought this was normal until I went to Currys yesterday and found most machine these days, they have like a plastic surround. Obviously the front of the machine around the door and lower is metal, but the detergent draw is vulnerable to rust as moister build up there. Anyways, it is rusting badly, so it is time for a new machine.

I have a BEKO condenser dryer which I have had for about 6 years which is OKAY, although it is now making an awful racket and has got really noisy. I preferably want a combo machine.

I have been eying up Bosch machines. My mother has a 12 year old Bosch which has been as solid as a rock. Nothing has broken off it, think she had the bearings and belt replaced about 4 years ago, but that's it. She religiously maintains it, running it on a hot 90 degrees wash with Dr. Beckmann Service-it. I have heard other similar stories of Bosch domestic appliances giving solid year on year performance. I have a Bosch fridge freezer I have had for 10 years and it has been fine.

I don't know how long white appliances last for these days. I hear that if a washing machine lasts 10 years, you are doing very well.

I spoke to a guy at Euronics and he also recommends Bosch. He said they are essentially the VW of appliances. Above average quality with an above average price tag, although when I was looking in currys yesterday, the prices of the Bosch appliances was much more similar to the likes of Samsung and Hotpoint than I thought.

Speaking of which, I spent a time prodding and poking the fridge freezers and washing machines because I appreciate well made things. I found hotpoint and indiset stuff to be quite good, and LG make some lovely washing machines. I was very disappointed with Samsung however. Their washing machines aren't so bad but their fridge freezers are quite poor. None of the doors aligned properly. On the American styled ones, one door was lower than the other. I doubt that is a design feature, because they had other Samsung models, and each one had a different door dropped. The LG ones were perfect though. LG make more of their machines and fridges in Korea as well, where as I looked at a £1400 Samsung American styled fridge freezer and it was made in China!

All the Bosch appliances however look just as well made as my German built fridge freezer, even though the new ones are made in Turkey.

I want a washer dryer with an inverter motor. Bosch do one which I have posted a link to. It looks very nice and has some good features like optiflow this and eco that. Acronyms which hopefully save time and money and keep my clothes clean!

There is also an LG washer dryer that has taken my interest.

Keep in mind that the LG is less than half the cost of the bosch and come with a much longer warrantee. Can the Bosch really be worth that much more?

The LG's seem beautifully built and designed. Long term reliability and durability I do not know, but I have not heard of any horror stories or major complaints, not at least in Europe. I know in North America, LG and Samsung top loaders were exploding! Hope that doesn't happen. The 10 year guarantee on the motors and 5 year for parts and labour on the LG machines looks impressive, as I believe all their motors are direct drive brushless jobs.

The link to the LG - http://www.lg.com/uk/washer-dryers/lg-F14A8YD

I hear inverter motors are superior in terms of durability and energy efficiency.

Anyways, would just like some thoughts and opinions if possible.

http://www.bosch-home.co.uk/our-products/washers-and-dryers/washer-dryers/WVH28422GB.html?source=search

 

[warmsecondrinse]

That comes out to 2.4 cubic feet (US). LG also makes a 76 litre model that's the same size, I think. There is/was a 102 litre model thats been superceded by a 122 lire one. All use water for the condensing dryer. I've never heard of AirCondensation dryers here at all and wonder if our (US) 1500 watt limit is a factor. Might these also be options for you?

I too am interested in the comments as I'll likely be limited to washer/dryer combos when my building revises (process supposedly underway) its current no-washer policy.

Jim

 

[oliveoiltinfoil]

To be honest I don't really care how it dries the clothes or whatever, so long as it dries them haha! I also don't need a large capacity one as there is only two of us in the house, with weekend exceptions when there can be up to 5.

At the moment, I am leaning towards the LG.

 

[passatdoc]

re: Bosch

Bosch has a major foothold in the US dishwasher market. THey've built a plant in the USA, parts availability (sometimes an issue with imports) is excellent, they are sold by major "big box" stores here, and some buyers are likely not aware they are a German brand. Originally, people thought of them like Miele, i.e. the $1400+ brand, but they strategically prices their products to match KitchenAid's line, which is considered "affordable luxury" here. My current Bosch DW, purchased in 2001, cost $600 and has never had a service call or issue. It has door-edge controls, which commands a premium price, but the feature set is entry level and a similar model with door-panel controls could have been had for $500.

With respect to washers, they closed down their US-sized washer line (27" wide, 36-38" high machines) which from what I heard were full of defects. FYI Miele did the same thing, they used to make US-sized machines but retreated from the market and now sell only Euro-size washers. Bosch still sells Euro-sized (24" footprint; fit under kitchen counters, which US machines do not) washers which receivef good to excellent ratings.

Last year stayed in an apartment-hotel in Berlin which included a full kitchen and washer-dryer stacked in the bathroom. Machines were Bosch and gave excellent service. Dryer of course was electric condenser (I am used to gas/vented dryers) which took longer to dry than what we have back home. There was no manual in the apartment to explain the cycles, there may have been a Perm Press dry cycle that I needed to wash/dry my tourist clothes (khakis/dress shirts with button down collars---I may look middle aged but I do NOT dress like a typical American tourist) but the cycle I chose evidently was not perm press, so I had to iron some of the clothes. Most likely there was such a cycle but without the manual I could not find the proper cycle using pictograms (I am fluent in German but the buttons were labelled with symbols, not German text).

Based on that one-week experience, I'd recommend Bosch. Bear in mind that the suite is used every week by guests who likely run quite a few loads, and the hotel was about two years old. So far the machines appeared to be holding up rather well.

 

[oliveoiltinfoil]

Yepp. I am aware of Bosch appliances and appreciate they are good quality. To be honest, I thought the LG machines looked better built, at least the perceived quality was just as good, if not better.

I am half German and travel to Germany a lot, and a lot of the appliances in hotels and places such as are Siemens, Bosch and Miele.

If someone can convince me the Bosch is worth twice the money of the LG, then I shall go for the Bosch.

 

[dascot]

Be aware that not all LG machines have the 5 year P&L warranty. Cheaper ones may not do, or if they do it may be a warranty from the retailer rather than LG.

Have you considered AEG (or John Lewis branded machines that are effectively AEG anyway)? I would suggest that they may be equally as good, if not better, than either of the above choices.

If you are interested in the opinion of Which? then they rank the following as Best Buy freestanding washer-dryers
Miele WT2780
John Lewis JLWD1612
AEG 87695
AEG 99695
AEG 75480

They rank several recent Hotpoint, Indesit, Servis and Candy machines as "don't buy"

Others, including LG, are in the middle.

 

[electradeluxe]

I've bought my own machine this year,a Bosch VarioPerfect and returned the haier washer dryer back to the landlord as it was absolute garbage,all my darks were coming out covered in white towel lint,and poured water out of the drawer whenever it felt like it!
I'm not a fan of washer dryers

Neil

 

[oliveoiltinfoil]

To be honest, and I am going to sound ignorant here, I do not entirely trust Which. They do not measure or comment on build quality. They give stats about reliability however. I go on a variety of website, review critics and owners reviews and than make an independent decision based on these things, not just what one company says. I can't see how a Bosch straight suction vacuum got a which best buy with not brushbar for agitation, and I have purchased things based on which best buys and found them not to be that good.

Haven't really considered AEG. Of course they are Electrolux. They used to be good, don't know what they are like now.

A lot of people say good things about the LG's and Bosch. The one I am looking at does have the 5 year warranty, and a 10 year motor warranty is good peace of mind. Like I said, the build quality seemed excellent on the LG with the biggest and more stable door hinges I have ever seen on a washing machine.

Don't really want anything from the Indesit or Candy group as upon looking at a few of their machines, they seem relatively average in terms of energy efficiency and performance.

 

[henene4]

AEG Heatpump washer-dryer

AEG offers a heat-pump washer dryer here in Germany. It is an actual heat pump that is used for condensing and heating. Has a seperate fluff filter as well. Sounds interesting now after we own a heat pump dryer now and now its advantages.
The thing about BSH washer-dryers is the incredible high drying temperature. Normal temp is 85°C, low temp 75°C round about. To compare, the BSH stand alone condensor dryer heats to 75°C on normal, 65°C on low heat. Our Whirlpool build heatpump dryer runs at 65° normal, about 55-60° low temp.

 

[oliveoiltinfoil]

I wasn't impressed with AEG to be honest. Build quality was average. Considering the Bosch and LG's were the same price but were better made, I would opt for them based on that.

Hotpoint, Indesit, AEG, Hoover and BEKO seem around the same in terms of build quality - quite poor. I am very particular. I didn't even think the Mieles were much to write home about, although the longevity of them may be very different.

Things like the button, dials, detergent draws, the solidity of the panels and how solid the door is on the machines is what I look for.

A friend of mine has his own repair service for machines. He said as soon as the Italians took over Hotpoint, the quality dropped a lot.

Bosch are also not what they used to be according to him, but I can easily see why. So many manufacturers are adoption policies of pile it high sell it cheap, through away items and outsourcing more of their manufacturing.

I am looking at EBAC at the moment. British made washing machines with 10 year guarantees, interior lights, touchscreen control panels and inverter motors all make this company seem attractive.

The head of the company also says she wants to produce quality. They are manufacturing their owns motors, pressing their metal, injection moulding their plastics as well. She says that her rivals (hotpoinn, hoover etc) it has cost them money making their machines cheaper and less durable. Making them tough and good quality will save her money, which is common sense for the rest of us, and means the end user will appreciate the product and have trust in the company. She certainly knows what she is on about.

Some of you may be aware of EBAC, but I have posted a link to the website. They even give tips on how to look after and prolong the life of your washing machine.

I reckon I'll go for the LG, until someone convinces me the Bosch is better.

Shop Ebac Washing Machines | 7 Year Warranty | Free Delivery

Browse our range of Ebac washing machines with a Free 7 year warranty. Choose from various sizes and colors including white, silver, and black. Out of Stock items available.

www.ebac.com

 

[BoschExxcel]

If you have room for a dryer, just get two machines. They work better, you will be able to have them on at the same time and are similar money once you price up a mid spec washer/dryer.

We had a Caple washer dryer in our new house when we moved in 2 years ago. We lasted a week without a dryer and ordered a Bosch Condenser one which is in the cupboard in my room! The Caple was rubbish at washing and drying, it took ages to dry anything at all and would steam up the kitchen.

Finally got rid of it in Augsut and now have a Whirlpool! Thank god, I love having a normal washing machine.

Oh and I've had excellent experiences with Bosch too, all our appliances are Bosch except the washing machine and they've all been fault free for the past 2 years. We left all our old Bosch appliances (except the dryer which was Whirlpool) at my old house, and they're all working fine now. The 9 year old washer had only had a minor leak that was easily fixed. The dishwasher is 12 years old and still going strong!

Personally I'd get a Bosch washing machine and a cheaper dryer, like a Hotpoint or Whirlpool.

 

[mrboilwash]

The Bosch washer dryer you are considering to buy features an air condensing technology as opposed to the usual water condensing.

I don`t know how reliable this system will be in a combo, but I can tell you from experience that water condensing means lots of trouble if you live in a hard water area.
Lint and limescale build up and block the condenser channel. The air condensing thing could be an advantage even if your water isn`t metered.

 

[dascot]

I would say build quality varies even amongst brands. Bosch higher end machines feel more solid than the lower end ones. Interesting that your friend says Hotpoint quality has decreased since the Italians took over - I've seen several surveys (Which and others) showing that reliability has improved over the past 10 years. The newer machines mostly feel better built too.

Of those two machines you're looking at - I've seen reports of the Bosch (& Siemens equivalents) machines being better at not over-drying than the LGs (and many others).

In terms of reliability - a washer dryer will inherently be less reliable than separates, because of added complexity of two machines in one. I agree that if you have the space, having two machines is better. I wouldn't suggest buying a Hotpoint condenser dryer though, they are not very good machines.

From Which's current reliability table for washer dryers:
Brand Score
Miele 88%
Indesit 78%
Bosch 77%
John Lewis 77%
AEG / AEG Electrolux 76%
Zanussi /Zanussi Electrolux 76%
Hotpoint 73%

Sample sizes: Miele 79, Indesit 65, Bosch 118, John Lewis 51, AEG / AEG Electrolux 211, Zanussi / Zanussi Electrolux 110 Hotpoint 99

 

[oliveoiltinfoil]

**Would like to apologise for the grammar mistakes in my last post. Damn autocorrect !**

Danke for the advice mrboilwash! I've been to Munich. It was very green and German. I went to France once but found it far too French.

I get the feeling a lot of the terminology manufacturers use (words we cant understand) are done for the sake of it, to outdo the competition. In reality, does it really make that much difference? I imagine a company like Bosch would be legit in their new inventions such as air condensing technology, but Samsung foam creating pump thing is surely just a gimmick.

 

[oliveoiltinfoil]

Thank you for the information dascot. That is interesting seeing Indesit being more reliable than hotpoint. I imagine they both use the same components, or are the hotpoints built to a cheaper cost?

So bosch are slightly above average in reliability it seems. Not surprising to be honest. However one thing that I keep thinking to myself is the LG is half the price of the Bosch and has a much longer warranty. Hmm.

 

[dascot]

I could be wrong, but as this will have gone back a number of years I'd expect a number of the Indesit machines to have been more basic and less feature filled than some of the Hotpoints included in those surveys. It is rather difficult to tell, though, without knowing the exact models included. You also have to take sample sizes into account.

 

[aquacycle]

Just bear in mind Oli that the longer warranty on the LG covers the motor only. The most common failure of LG machines is the PCB.

LG certainly look impressive with flashy bells and whistles, but at the end of the day, its a washing machine. It needs to be reliable and wash well. A lot of machines these days have a pretty poor wash action, especially Hotpoint/Indesit. They tumble far too slowly on the cottons cycles. So it's not just reliability you want to be looking at, it's performance too.

Bosch have a much stronger reputation for performance than LG, so you'd likely end up with a much higher performing machine overall with the Bosch.

Personally, I wouldn't have a washer dryer. I'd always have separates. Not least of which because it takes twice as long to do your laundry - you obviously can't get one load out of the washer, into the dryer and the next load in the washer. But if you're dead set on a WD, Bosch, Miele, AEG or John Lewis branded machines are definitely your best bet. Just be careful with drying clothes in it, they get very hot and have a habit of shrinking things.

 

[henene4]

AEG Quality

To be honest, AEGs quality is by far not what it used to be when it actually was AEG. The thing about AEG what makes it such a good choice of washer dryers is the balance between features.
They have a well sized drum with 66l (so, you can dry about 3,5kg of laundry without to much creasing). BSH has 57l, LG has about the same as AEG. Drum volume is really important in terms of drying as overfilling during drying causes lots of creases to form.
AEGs wash and rinse verry well with the recirculation they have. A thing that Bosch has not.
And, not knowing what you want to invest, AEG is the first to offer true heatpump drying technology in a washer dryer in the EU. This reduces the water usage during drying to 0, halfs the energy usage during drying, reduces the fluff-buildup (it has an actual fluff filter pretty simmilar to a normal dryer) and keeps drying temperatures and thus shrinkage low. And drying times are only slightly longer (the manuals state 4 hours for 7kg in the TOL non-heatpump AEG washer-dryer, and the same time for 6kg in the heat-pump models).
In terms of quality, I guess they are about as good as Bosch. We own a MOL-BOL AEG washer with a normal motor (with brushes) and 1600rpm and build quality lives up to its price. The suspension handels out-of-balance situations quite well, the door feels solid and the buttons and dials are just as good as any of todays physical buttons (aka not touch sensitive). And washtimes are ok as you got 2 steps of cycle shortening and the OptiSense regularly cuts down wash time (though it takes about 15-20 minutes for load sensing).
Here in Germany, they retail for 1000€, or about 800£ about 2 months after they started selling them. For the UK, I only found one online for 1200£. So they are quite expensive still.

 

[nickuk]

OP, I didn't like my 8kg LG washer dryer which I bought in 2007 to the extent that I sold it on ebay a year or so later and replaced it with a basic Bosch washing machine and dryer.

The LG was a crude, noisy machine. Yes, the motor was quietish but the hissy filling and noisy draining / recirculation pump (which went off and on at intervals, to add to the noise disturbance) made such a racket the machine overall was noisy. Far noisier than the Bosch. The LG did not heat to the correct temperatures and I just didn't like the cycles. It seemed they were either too short or too long. Balancing was an absolute nightmare even on basic loads, and often this lead to the cycles doubling in time. To top it off, there some sort of mechanism on top of the fab con bit which stopped the entire drawer from pulling out which broke within months. If you remembered, great! On a bad day, Ariel and Comfort all over your feet :-(

It could be that I had a Friday one, or that LG have improved since then. However, I would never have another one and have stuck with Bosch since then. We sold the machine still good as new about five years later when we changed the kitchen, and now have integrated Siemens which I'm also happy with.

I would second what others are saying though - I really would avoid washer dryers and have separates, I think it would be a step down for you to do this, though I'm sure you know what you're doing.