Xlent Barry
I didn't even see how we are on the same page!! Yehaw!
I didn't even see how we are on the same page!! Yehaw!
Neutral Drain Top Loaders - A Query
- Thread starter launderess
- Start date
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Ah, but what about the solid tub machines that use water for overflow rinses before the spin? Not disputing you, just mentioning something you did not mention in your statement when you said that the spin drain gets rid of suds without spray rinsing. GE, Maytag, & Frigidaire 1-18s are among those that, in addition to spin-draining, used a spray rinse. Hotpoint, I believe, used a spray rinse in the spin in their solid tub machine at some point.
I did mention overflow rinses, Tom. Please re-read. I just said they use additional water. So do the GE and Frigidaire 1 - 18's that I have when they spray after the start up of the spin-drain.
Maybe I didn't state things clearly. I'll try again.
What I am saying is that I rarely see any suds by the time the deep rinse portion of a spin-drain machine, even when I have an oversudsing event. I also stated that sometimes, the spin-drain is so effective that occasionally, I see all the suds gone even before the spray portion of that spin drain begins.
I am not saying that spin-drain machines don't need a spray rinse, I never even heard of one that doesn't do a spray rinse. Just because the suds are gone from the tub doesn't mean you don't still have detergent residue in the clothes. This is evidenced by what comes out of the drain hose when the spray hits the clothes during the spin!
Maybe I didn't state things clearly. I'll try again.
What I am saying is that I rarely see any suds by the time the deep rinse portion of a spin-drain machine, even when I have an oversudsing event. I also stated that sometimes, the spin-drain is so effective that occasionally, I see all the suds gone even before the spray portion of that spin drain begins.
I am not saying that spin-drain machines don't need a spray rinse, I never even heard of one that doesn't do a spray rinse. Just because the suds are gone from the tub doesn't mean you don't still have detergent residue in the clothes. This is evidenced by what comes out of the drain hose when the spray hits the clothes during the spin!
1956 GE Filter Flo
no spray rinses ever! I used to haul the drain hose back out of the set tub to spray the clothes when my mom wasn't around!---TELL NO ONE!!!!
And I only did that because I had just seen Mrs. Cusano's 1956 Kenmore do a spray rinse when blew my mind as I had never seen a machine do that before!
no spray rinses ever! I used to haul the drain hose back out of the set tub to spray the clothes when my mom wasn't around!---TELL NO ONE!!!!
And I only did that because I had just seen Mrs. Cusano's 1956 Kenmore do a spray rinse when blew my mind as I had never seen a machine do that before!
Two of our neighbors had Kenmore waterfall machines before the got Filter Flo machines around 59 or 60. I and they were amazed at how the rinse water was so clear without a spray rinse, but many have said that without the suds residue in the outer tub, the solid tub machines could rinse better. I remember when the Kenmores we had started filling for the rinse, as the water level rose to the bottom of the inner tub, it brought with it a thin film of suds and this was with a low sudsing detergent.
ingliscanada
Well-known member
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- Oct 20, 2009
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I also don't believe that a neutral drain is a bad thing, only because WP were successful and popular washers for 50-plus years, and they always had neutral drain.
Gary
Gary
mikeklondon
New member
Balance
It looks to me that a machine with a spin drain balances the load better ?
It looks to me that a machine with a spin drain balances the load better ?
It looks to me that a machine with a spin drain balances the
Not really.
Good balancing has more to go with the suspension design than spin/neutral drains.
Actually, if one were to use the same identical suspension setup (remember, we're dealing with theory here), a neutral drain would probably balance a bit better because the clothes are clumped and spun at the bottom of the tub. Dealing with clumped clothing in higher portions of the tub wreak more havoc on the suspensions of top the loaders, due to physics.
Maytag used a good suspension design by 1966. The older design wasn't horrible, but it wasn't great either. GE Filter Flo's......well, not as good, and they lacked an out of balance switch, so they'd literally bash themselves to smithereens if a badly out of balance situation occurred. My 1963 Frigidaire WCI-63 that I use to have would bash the inner tub into the outer tub once out of every 4 spins while ramping up to speed. Not a good suspension design there either, IMO.
Not really.
Good balancing has more to go with the suspension design than spin/neutral drains.
Actually, if one were to use the same identical suspension setup (remember, we're dealing with theory here), a neutral drain would probably balance a bit better because the clothes are clumped and spun at the bottom of the tub. Dealing with clumped clothing in higher portions of the tub wreak more havoc on the suspensions of top the loaders, due to physics.
Maytag used a good suspension design by 1966. The older design wasn't horrible, but it wasn't great either. GE Filter Flo's......well, not as good, and they lacked an out of balance switch, so they'd literally bash themselves to smithereens if a badly out of balance situation occurred. My 1963 Frigidaire WCI-63 that I use to have would bash the inner tub into the outer tub once out of every 4 spins while ramping up to speed. Not a good suspension design there either, IMO.
beekeyknee
Well-known member
My Goodness, What A Thread.
Here is my take on the whole thing. In the 80's I used to have an old 60's Speed Queen set (solid tub of course) and I believe SQ and Frigidaire (and some others) had a good idea with the overflow rinse. It seemed to work a little better on the SQ's because the fins on the agitator seemed to push the suds toward the o/f better than the chaser ring. Can't say that for sure because I didn't ever have one, but from what I've read on here over the years, SQ seemed to do a better job of pushing away the suds.
When I had my SQ, by the time the spin started all the suds were gone and the water was clear, but that was before I had a w/s, which would make a difference in the amount of suds; always does. One uses less soap in soft water. As far as sand, we didn't work on a farm. The most we did was work in the yard; mostly mowing. By the end of the cycle the clothes were very clean and soap free, as far as we could tell. Very smooth and soft and not much smell at all. We had a gay girl living with us at the time and sometimes she would come in very dirty. Her clothes always came out clean too. That SQ didn't have a very big capacity, but sometimes I really miss it. It was such a cool machine. What did it in was when the solenoid would bang up to engage the drive block, the block would slip in and out and the machine would have intermittent agitation. Unfortunately I didn't try to fix the problem and just threw out the machine, which I really regret now. I had a business to run and other things on my mind and I thought there would be other machines out there to purchase that would be just a good. I was in for a big disappointment.
In my current Maytag experiences, the results are about the same, except if I put too much soap in the wash the rinsing isn't as good, as we have soft water now. Launderess is correct that rinsing seems better in harder water, but according to tests done on this site by other members, that can be deceiving. The hard water seems like it's rinsing better because it suppresses sudsing action, but the suds may still be there. Even in the sink when I try to rinse dish liquid out of the dish cloth and down the drain, it takes much longer to rinse the suds away. In hard water I think it may still be there but doesn't show itself. I don't know how else to justify this phenomenon. Anyway, this summer when our w/h was a complete disaster, I had purchased and 80's BOL Maytag to steal the trans and agitator out of for a rebuild of an older series 0. Since It was on the patio and I had hoses for hot and cold water, I manually filled the machine and washed outside. I felt like a woman on wash day 50 years ago. When it came time for the spray rinse I would turn the cold water hose up on full blast and spray the clothes for nearly the whole spin cycle. By the time it was over the water coming out of the drain hose was completely clear. If the Maytag would spray a large volume of water for the whole wash spin, I believe the results would be better. But this might run up a water bill quite a bit. It certainly gave good results.
Back to the solid tub machines. I have never had a problem with them and I was always please with the results. I was always amazed at how dry the clothes would come out with no perforations in the tub and sand was never a problem for us. I guess it depends on ones living situations.
Here is my take on the whole thing. In the 80's I used to have an old 60's Speed Queen set (solid tub of course) and I believe SQ and Frigidaire (and some others) had a good idea with the overflow rinse. It seemed to work a little better on the SQ's because the fins on the agitator seemed to push the suds toward the o/f better than the chaser ring. Can't say that for sure because I didn't ever have one, but from what I've read on here over the years, SQ seemed to do a better job of pushing away the suds.
When I had my SQ, by the time the spin started all the suds were gone and the water was clear, but that was before I had a w/s, which would make a difference in the amount of suds; always does. One uses less soap in soft water. As far as sand, we didn't work on a farm. The most we did was work in the yard; mostly mowing. By the end of the cycle the clothes were very clean and soap free, as far as we could tell. Very smooth and soft and not much smell at all. We had a gay girl living with us at the time and sometimes she would come in very dirty. Her clothes always came out clean too. That SQ didn't have a very big capacity, but sometimes I really miss it. It was such a cool machine. What did it in was when the solenoid would bang up to engage the drive block, the block would slip in and out and the machine would have intermittent agitation. Unfortunately I didn't try to fix the problem and just threw out the machine, which I really regret now. I had a business to run and other things on my mind and I thought there would be other machines out there to purchase that would be just a good. I was in for a big disappointment.
In my current Maytag experiences, the results are about the same, except if I put too much soap in the wash the rinsing isn't as good, as we have soft water now. Launderess is correct that rinsing seems better in harder water, but according to tests done on this site by other members, that can be deceiving. The hard water seems like it's rinsing better because it suppresses sudsing action, but the suds may still be there. Even in the sink when I try to rinse dish liquid out of the dish cloth and down the drain, it takes much longer to rinse the suds away. In hard water I think it may still be there but doesn't show itself. I don't know how else to justify this phenomenon. Anyway, this summer when our w/h was a complete disaster, I had purchased and 80's BOL Maytag to steal the trans and agitator out of for a rebuild of an older series 0. Since It was on the patio and I had hoses for hot and cold water, I manually filled the machine and washed outside. I felt like a woman on wash day 50 years ago. When it came time for the spray rinse I would turn the cold water hose up on full blast and spray the clothes for nearly the whole spin cycle. By the time it was over the water coming out of the drain hose was completely clear. If the Maytag would spray a large volume of water for the whole wash spin, I believe the results would be better. But this might run up a water bill quite a bit. It certainly gave good results.
Back to the solid tub machines. I have never had a problem with them and I was always please with the results. I was always amazed at how dry the clothes would come out with no perforations in the tub and sand was never a problem for us. I guess it depends on ones living situations.
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