Never ever another Miele for me !!!

[mrboilwash]

I am so pissed off with my Miele W435 and even more with their unqualified sevice men.
Normally that stupid machine only gives two rinses and two 1000rpm intermission spins on regular cotton cycle. If a sudslock occurs it reduces the spinspeed and then increases speed again just very slowly. I have set the "Water Plus" function to a third rinse at normal level because I don`t want to waste too much ernergy with the #4 setting. (Which is more water for wash and rinse and an extra rinse.
I also had to extend the wastewater hose, but still in the permitted limits of the manufacturer.
It drains good and quite fast.

Well, trouble #1 is that every now and than, maybe 1 out of 10 washes my Miele does not do anything about it when a sudslock comes up in the rinse. It just keeps on spinning and ignores the sudslock.
Error #2 is that every now and then it does not come up to the full spinnspeed in the final spin, because of out of balance problems. I never get an error code at the end of a cycle.
Had several times repair service but they just claimed the machine were perfectly all right and got nothing repaired.
Today they have sent over 2 men to have a look at my machine.
The result is, now I have an extra high water level rinse.
This setting is called "softwatersetting" and can not be programmed by the customer.
There was also a testrun with a 400g unbalance at 1500rpm.
The machine almost speeded up as it should to 1430rpm and made an awful rattling noise and both repairmen pressed their ears against my machine as if they could not believe what they heard. As the spin was finished one of them said: That was probably just the air in the drum. So that really takes the cake, doesn`t it ?
I am so disappointed with Miele just don`t know what to do, now.
Or am I just asking for too much ?
Any suggestions about the reason of trouble? BTW the controlpanel has already been replaced before

 

[lavamat_jon]

Hi there,

Sorry to hear about problems with your Miele! I have to say the experience with both mine and mum's have been great and that they are the best washers I've personally ever used, especially when it comes to build quality though mum's is only 2 months old and mine is a year and 3 months old, so haven't had them too long to make a big statement on the reliablity. However both came with free 10 year warranties so I suppose that is a testament to them.

My Miele will only do something about a sudslock if it's on the wash spin - where if it detects excess suds it will slow down, drain for a minute and then distribute again and attempt to spin up to 5 times; if not it will then do a 600rpm spin for 30 seconds then perform an extra rinse with a high level. If it's on a rinse spin, it will keep spinning until the suds lock goes away - so sometimes it can be spinning for a good minute or two before the sudslock dies down (you can hear the suds pull between the tubs when it's sudslocking), and when the sudslock has stopped it will then maintain the 1000rpm speed for the standard 1.5 mins before slowing down and doing the next rinse. I have to say that out of any modern machine the Miele seems to be the best at handling suds locks - my AEG will get stuck in sudslock mode for up to 20 minutes on each interim spin and sometimes if it gets into sudslock on the 1st rinse and even the 2nd rinse sin (because of the low rinse levels), it will waste time and not handle it in an efficient & quick way like the Miele, but both are considerably better than the old Bosch which would jsut cut out the spin and advance into the next rinse at the first sign of even a slight sudslock problem.

I occasionally have problems with a load not balancing for the final spin, but mine just cuts out the 1600rpm burst at the end and still does a 6 minute 1200rpm spin with an unbalanced load which is pretty impressive, compared again to equivalent machines from Bosch (mum's old Bosch would do 900rpm I think if it was OOB) and my AEG, which if never getting an optimum balance for the final spin will just give up on the spin cycle altogether. Usually the load is only out of balance due to error on my own part with any machine anyway - e.g. if I've mixed a couple of towels with sheets, so I've adopted my laundry loads over the years so that I will always get a balanced spin.

I have to say I was at first skeptical with the 2 rinse system when I first got my Miele and used 3 rinses combined with water plus for quite a long time, but when I started using the default rinse setting I was actually really surprised at how well rinsed the laundry was. At the time I was using a really heavily scented detergent (Bold), and there was only a slight smell of Bold left on a load of towels out of the Miele, whereas even with the 5 sensitive rinses in the AEG I can still smell Bold quite strongly despite the high rinse levels with Sensitive and the recirculating rinse pump (which I think actually hinders rather than helps the rinsing).

The detergent you use also has a huge effect on the rinse quality. When I use tablets or liquitabs I always have to use the extra rinse because they always suds more, however with most powders I find that the 2 rinses with the 2 high speed interim spins are quite sufficient. Certainly lacks the excitement that the high level rinses gives, but I definitely can't fault the rinsing. Both my sister and dad have sensitive skin, and if I used biological powder in the old Bosch or Hotpoint they would have reacted quite badly however I can use biological powder in the Miele even without the extra rinse and I haven't received a skin complaint at all (whether I use Ariel or Persil biological powders).

I hope your machine gets sorted soon. It is a shame, as I can't fault either mine or my mum's Miele - and believe me I'm a very pernickety person, can pick faults out of anything!

Jon

 

[launderess]

The more one hears about these new Miele washers, the more one appreciates our "old" W770 unit. True it does not have all the fancy bells and whistles of a Novotronic, but it gets the job done. Oh yes, much prefer having my laundry done with water, rather than tumbling around like a wet wipe for the new water use restrictions.

Candide

 

[mrboilwash]

Jon, it is like a curse, whenever I pick a package of undies for example I can always count on it to find at least one with a hole in it.
Same thing with washingmachines and servicecalls...

 

[lavamat_jon]

Hopefully my mum's machine isn't cursed! This is her 3rd washer this year!

I hope you get things sorted - I wouldn't go as far to say that they are miracle workers but I'm very pleased with both mine and my mum's Miele washers, we both think they are the best machines that we have owned so far, and they are much better than most of the other crap available on the market.

In terms of the rinsing issue, have you tried switching detergents?

Jon

 

[sadose]

Brand New...

I took delivery of both a Miele washer and vented dryer yesterday afternoon along with a Miele dishwasher and refrigerator ready to be installed into my new house which I move into next month, the delivery men were very careful with them and the goods were very well packaged. However, out of the 4 appliances delivered, 3 are going back. The fridge is fine thankfully, the dishwasher's interior leaves far to be desired, the door of the washing machine whilst being very sturdy, is actually loose, and there are broken fragments of plastic in the drum of the dryer (some part of the door has broken) so back they go tomorrow, all 3 of them, I chose Miele over Siemens on a whim as my mother has had 2 Miele's both of which nearly resulted in the house setting on fire, these were brand new machines and these incidents happened within the first two weeks. She has a team of 2 Gorenje machines now which so far are proving to be very effective at handling copious amounts of [coughs] "soiled" laundry. I didn't really fancy the eco friendliness of a Siemens though at this moment in time.

I'm giving the appliances that are going back a second chance, if these arrive faulty or break down within 30 days then I see no option but to revert to the brand I've trusted for years...I will go back to products from the Electrolux group.

So there we are...I shall wait with baited breath!

 

[lavamat_jon]

Saj

What is wrong this time with your Miele stuff? Can't complain at all with any of ours and I think they're easily the best stuff you can get (though you already know I think that ), and never heard a complaint either when I used to sell them (used to shift about 15 Miele units a week)... seems like your having extremely bad luck!

Have to say in my experience at least my Miele stuff is better than the AEG or Zanussi appliances we have. AEG washer is being a bit temperemental recently again; I hate my AEG condenser dryer with a passion, friend's AEG died after 3 years of light use (4 loads a week) due to eventual bearing failure, as well as a dodgy pcb; mum had that whole pallava with her new Zanussi; and our Zanussi dishwasher was a POS, and while the AEG that replaced it was better at performing the quality of the racks still wasn't there with Bosch or Miele, plus the Miele is whisper quiet and washes everything clean even if it's been stuffed full (e.g. bowls stacked over cups) - something which the AEG or Zanussi dishwashers could never get clean.

Jon

 

[mielerod69]

Guten Tag Herr Boilwash,
Es tut mir Leid dass Sie diese probleme mit Ihrer Miele hat.
I have a W487WPS for nearly 4 years now. I too sometimes experience the final spin not getting up to full speed. This is done to protect the machine from damage and excessive vibration. The machine doesn't tell you if it occurs but you notice the washing is not as dry as you would expect, all I do if this happens is I take out the washing and reload the machine and put it on drain/spin again. No big deal for me. The sudslock sometimes happens to me as well. It does depend on the detergent, but if it occurs the machine will automatically add an extra rinse. The detergent overdose LED only comes on if the suds lock occurs more than once during the cycle and can add up to 2 extra rinses. Like Jon I have put my machine back to 2 rinses and still use water plus if I do a large load of towels. Maybe you need to look at the amount of detergent you use. On what loads does it do the suds lock? My Miele is connected to hot and cold supply and have programmed my machine to do a hot rinse now and this saves me time approx 20 mins when drying in the dryer. In summer I put it back to cold rinses as I tend to line dry. I have all Miele appliances at home as does my mother and I wouldn't use anything else.
To Sadose you can't blame Miele if your appliances arrived damaged. This damage could have occured in transit. When you say the dishwasher interior was far to be desired, what was wrong? Was it wet inside, if so they are all tested at the factory to make sure they work. I would be more worried if it were dry. I hope it all goes well for you.

 

[Bearpeter]

Laundress!!!

Could not have put it better!!!!

Bring back high level rinses AND high interim spins!!!!
Does anyone know what was wrong with the older washing machines that would fill up to half way up the door then tumble for a minute max, then move onto the next rinse/spin?

They were real water hogs but you never got a trace of detergent on your clothes AND faster!

To me, the long agitation of the rinses in modern washers just seems to me to be a waste of time after about a minute...

Maybe someone can enlighten me?
Peter

 

[mrboilwash]

It`s not THAT bad, it is probably still one of the best machines one can get for ones money.
I was just sooo mad and disapointed about the bad "repair service".
The OOB handling leaves a bit to be desired in my opinion.
As I mentioned before, I always like to use the extra rinse option. Maybe this is the reason why my machine would only add an additional rinse if somthing goes wrong in the spin after the wash but never if something goes wrong in the rinse spins.
However, the technician set it to a so called softwatersetting, which inreases rinselevels considerable, so in conjuntion with the 3rd rinse I`ll always be on the save side.
But the way they helped me with the noise in the spin is plain cheekiness.

 

[oxydolfan]

I've been wondering about something, and would like to ask a question of our UK members.

Is it just me, or am I reading a lot of accounts of folks in the UK replacing washers really frequently?

I've been wondering if this represents a glimpse of things to come for us here in the US....(our new stuff seems horribly made)...

I spent time in England many years ago and recall that most of the washing machines there were built in directly to the kitchen. Apart from the expense, wouldn't that be quite a bit of aggravation to deal with, if the machines had to be replaced every 2-3 years or so?

(Although, if I recall correctly, the equipment in homes in Liverpool and the like were a lot shabbier than in London, but that may have been reflective of the times?)

I have an 18-year old Whirlpool TL I'm loath to toss, simply because it's still working the way it should!

Maybe it's the water in England?

 

[aquarius1984]

yes its all to come in a competitive market. The demand for cheap machines mean even the most reliable machines from years ago are made cheap by using inferior parts. I will never ever touch an indesit again and i dont care whatever anybody says about hotpoint ariston either. They make 1 reliable machine in 10. Shit. Yet all these until about 5 to 10 years ago were the brands to buy for mid range reliability. Buy a miele if you want a laster and forget any other brand. My next new one will be a miele. Harsh words i know but even your american whirlpool etc etc are going down the pan. Long live miele which of course it will do!

 

[aquarius1984]

i also believe that while all you guys have been getting rubbish mieles persist in getting them repaired or replaced if they under the guarantee. You will eventually get a good one and miele go thru a learning curve on what to make better.. I think even if you get 10 years (alter that actually i would say 6 or 7 years with whats on sale here i seen a £400 servis that will last 4 washes) with other makes asking for 450quid. out a 500 quid miele you got your moneys worth. Our hoover quatro was a 450 quid machine at the time although we got it in a sale other ppl paid full price and suffered what we did with it. At most any new hotpoint ariston hoover candy whirlpool aeg will give you 5 years and expect to pay on average 350 it dosnt take a mathematician and an ecologist to work out which one to buy in the long run.

 

[aquarius1984]

apologies

after a meow fit and a hiss i have now retracted my claws and wish you all a pleasant day.

 

[seamusuk]

If you expect a machine to last more than 5 years..

Then Miele are your ONLY option IMHO!!!

Seamus

 

[lavamat_jon]

Oxydol - it's only of recent that we have seen very cheap washers on the market from the likes of Indesit Beko Hotpoint Candy etc all of which nowadays will last 3 or 4 years of normal use. However if you bought a Hoover, Hotpoint or Indesit at the same time you bought your Whirlpool toploader 18 years ago, most likely they'd still be working today. Even my AEG washer, which for years was a brand close behind Miele in terms of quality/reliability, is giving me some tempremental issues after only 2 and a half years, and as for my AEG dryer of the same age, well I don't want to go into that.

BTW our washers aren't built into kitchens per se. They just slot under the worksurface in a gap, so are quite easily accessible to pull out and replace as required. You can get integrated washers which hide behind appliance doors, but they are expensive for what they are.

Nick is right in that it's entirely the consumers fault for this change in washers; if they were prepared to spend a bit more than £200 or £250 then we wouldn't see such rubbish on machines nowadays. And with most brands for their high end electronic ones they often just stick a better control panel on the same machine they sell for £250 which just has dials instead, and sell it for £400 or £450. Whereas I remember even in the late 90s the most basic washers would cost £300 or so, simply because the quality was better - and nowaday's they're selling machines for cheaper even though materials costs have gone up so it's obvious they've had to make cuts on quality.

Miele seems to be the only brand nowadays that actually cares about quality and whatever... which is why I prefer to buy Miele even though the initial cost maybe £100 or £200 more than any other brand.

Mrboilwash - you're lucky that the Miele actually manages to spin if it's OOB. I'm not sure about yours but mine will still spin at 1000rpm or 1200rpm if the load is unbalanced - better than most other machines I've used with OOB sensors which either spin but at something like 500rpm after redistributing for about 10 minutes, or don't spin at all. Of course I still long for the days when washers didn't care about balancing and just went straight up to 1100rpm or whatever no matter what!

Peter - we can all mourn the high water level washers of yesteryear; and I do agree that they did get the job done quicker but you pointed out exactly why they don't exist anymore - because they are water hogs. With many parts of the UK in drought conditions and a lot of reservoirs only being half as full as they should be, it makes sense to conserve water in as many ways as possible. And if machines can rinse properly like the Miele with 2 rinses (the interim spins after the wash are what gets most of the soap out of the clothes - older washers didn't spin after the wash and spin shorter and slower between rinses so need the more water to rinse out the soap that is spun out in the wash spin in newer machines), then why not try and save water... it's only machines that try and save water and keep performance at the same time but don't do it too well (i.e. machines like my nana's Hotpoint) which give other machines which rinse well with considerably less water a bad name, because they either don't spin long/fast enough, or the water level isn't high enough. Even though the Miele's do 2 rinses as standard (or 3 if extra rinse is selected), the level reaches so that it touches the rim of the drum on small loads, or about an inch or 2 up the door for larger loads. Of course I still love the action high water level rinses get - can't beat the drama, and if I'm in the mood I will select the option however for the standard loads I'm just going to chuck in and let the machine get on with, then I'm more than happy with the 2 rinses on the Miele. And believe me, I'm very pernickety when it comes to rinsing performance...

Jon

 

[seamusuk]

Another obvious reason for low water usage......

Hey ppl

Obviously UK ppls will know, but US ppl may not...

In the UK the idea of water meters is a pretty new one, you always did(and many ppl still do) pay a fixed sum per year based on the value of you house etc.
This is changing pretty rapidly tho-indeed my local supplier recently became the 1st in the country to get permission to install meters for all their customers(with the exception of flats etc with shared supply pipes). Most new front loaders will wash 5kg (11lb) of cottons in under 50l (11Gal) of water and as an example of extreme ecomomy the Electrolux Insight does 8kg (nearly 19lb) with only 60l (13.3Gal).

Yes this takes away the drama etc but as Jon said our water situation isnt good so its defiantly the way forward!

Seamus

 

[launderess]

Water And Washing Machines

Parts of the UK/Europe, well indeed most parts have water so hard one could cut one's teeth. This hard water leads to scale build up on internal washer parts, especially the heating elements. Unless the scale is removed often, the build up causes a washer's heating units to become less efficient. Sooner or later the elements must be replaced, at at cost where one might just as well in come cases chuck the machine and start new.

In the UK, Calgon and other packaged water softeners are advertised for use routine along with laundry products to reduce scale build-up/lenghten appliance life. Most consumers find for what buying all that Calgon costs, they can put away towards a new washer!

If you get a chance to visit a dealer that sells Persil or any other European/UK detergent in the United States, you will see the dosages are far in excess of what American's report using. That is because one of the functions of detergent is to soften wash water; the harder the water, the more detergent is required.

Hard water deposits effect any appliance that uses water, from boilers,tea kettles, hot water heaters, etc not just washing machines. The results are the same, unless scale is removed or prevented from building up, sooner or later the unit will start to fail.

 

[chestermikeuk]

Hhmmmm

I read the start of this email twice before I realised it wasnt Spoof Bait for Jon...LOL

I`m sure you can get friday afternoon machines with any make, I know of many Indesit, Ariston and Servis 1500 spin machines that are being washed to death by families and they just keep going....AND I read that others dont have the same stamina..

We are seeing new generations of machines being built, many new features, and I think from this point in time we will see great improvements in reliability & service...only time will tell...

I went down to Currys to look at the latest ranges and was surprised with a lot of new machines / features..

My big beef is Powder dispensors, why they cant be made simple like the old hotpoint servis, hoover machines I`ll never know...so simple to flush through on each fill and easy to remove n clean....the lux aeg zanussi ones are the worst, there are so many plastic nubulations and little recesses, you would have to stick it in a dishwasher to clean it...the new Aqualtis has a smooth one,The Ariston push slide out with fabric guide is funky, Siemens IQ pretty good as well...the best ones are Maytag Asko & Miele.../

Was dissapointed with the new Miele models, I loved the sleek sturdiness with no recesses of the previous models, I can get my hand behind the protruding new doors and the joins are raised...the plastic fascia is flexible as well, which the older ones were not....My fav is the Navitronic W3985 with jogshuttle controls , one dial four memory buttons and sloping fascia..

Over the last 5 yrs brands have suffered because of cheap prices & high repair costs, with the new EU directives on recycling & waste management I think we will see a big shift to more reliable goods, OR, when they do go wrong better prices on parts & labour etc...

Mike