New American standard 16 seer Heatpump problems

[volsboy1]

We were going to get a 18 seer Luxaire but we went with a 5 Ton 16 seer American standard two stage heat pump.It was installed Thursday and well its been having problems keeping the Temp down.The outside unit is HUGE I mean the size of a fridge huge.The air don't feel as cold coming out of the vents but this system does move a TON more air through them.The Temp coming out is about 68F the vents.How is it that our old 1990 Coleman 4 ton unit the air was 58 to 61 degrees even when it was 100 outside.The ductwork is in the attic and its hot as hell up there but is our old Coleman had no problem.I have a bad feeling that there is a leak in it or something and it's losing freon or the compressor has never shifted to full capacity.If its not shifting up to the full tonnage and you blow that much air through it then it won't feel cold.We have plenty of returns 5 of them so that is no problem.This machine has never not one time stopped running never.I don't understand did we get screwed I am going to get a Amp meter so I can see if the unit is in full 5 ton..The T-stats on these SUCK they don't tell you crap.

 

[coldspot]

Not sure on the set up but check the breakers or fuse. I had this happen one time not a heat pump unit but reg aircon unit. One of the breakers flipped so the unit was not getting full power.

heat pumps do not work here that good in the winter so not to up on them. But I know some of the pac units are not that good at cooling. My aunt had a gas pack installed it never would cool her place. It was a 5 ton also.

Also check the filter and the t stat wires to make sure they are hooked up right. Only other thing would be at the unit itself some have resets in them.

re the freon lines cold to the touch or warm. One should be hot the other cold. Also make sure it is not frozen up. And check the drain line also.

 

[DADoES]

 
When running at low-speed or 1st stage compressor, the airflow rate should normally be accordingly lower if you have a variable- or multi-speed blower.

If a two-stage thermostat wasn't used, the system won't be able to shift properly between low and high stage in response to indoor temperature.  Shifting will (may) be done by the unit's control board based on run-time instead of indoor temperature.

If it really is running only on low-stage, then that's typically 1/2 to 2/3 of the full 5-ton capacity.

 

[2packs4sure]

American standard 16 seer Heatpump

The model # on the outside unit will tell you the tonnage.
In the model # there should be an 060 in the number for 5 tons.
048 4 tons 042 3.5 tons....

Sounds to me like TOO MUCH airflow. Slowing down the blower speed will lower the temp.

 

[volsboy1]

The Suction line is cool not cold.Now on the Coleman it was cold as Ice and would sweat bad.I was told that because this new freon runs at a much higher pressure that the suction line would not get cold like our old one.The T-stat is a ACONT800 series we have the T.O.L. Air handler variable speed everything.We have 22 supply registers in our home and the air does move but the temp is 69 coming out of the vents on high.This thing will never cool at those temps how can you tell if the compressor shifts up...Is there a T-Stat that I could buy that would tell you this stuff.. He came by yesterday and added more freon and it was colder and brought the temp down fast but then today it can't maintain 75 degrees.

 

[2packs4sure]

Was the old system 5 ton also?

I would ask the tech. if he can set up the high speed blower to a lower setting.

Seems backwards but it WILL lower the evaporator temp.

 

[volsboy1]

No the Old Coleman was a 4 Ton unit but we added on the house during that time and the heat load numbers said we needed a little over 4 tons but everybody told us to go to the 5 ton because this is a Heatpump and the extra capacity would help when it got cold and we had plenty of duct work capacity to handle it.They all said this cause we only looked at the T.O.L. models that were two stage or two full compressors and I have heard rumors that Trane/American standard are kinda weak when it comes to a heat pumps..

 

[2packs4sure]

I doubt the system is at fault. It's an installer error most likely.

Tell them you want a tech out there to check the superheat and subcooling.

There is some kind of problem with the charge or static pressure.....

There may not be quite enough duct capacity for your new system causing high staic pressure and high evaporator temps.

The video is just a general guide of one way to do it.

If the tech. is serious he should be there awhile.

 

[appnut]

Wes, I have the similar Trane unit. Yours is not operating properly. They need to have a higher-up tech with the service come check it out!!

 

[volsboy1]

Well yea I will have to get somebody out here.It is so damn hot in that attic that you don't check everything up there I can't say I blame them for wanting to get out of there.It is not cooling right and there is no way that air coming out of the supply registers at 69 to 70 degrees is running right.I am going to call them and have them come out very early monday morning before it gets to hot and have them check the superheat and all that stuff.Its not like I have my T-stat at 69 and expect it to hold that temp when its a 100 but that Old Coleman Could keep it at 70 in here so I don't get it.These things are not cheap that is for sure...

 

[mayguy]

What the model on the t-stat is used?

Is the dipswitch set up right at the air handler/furnace?

Lot of dealer makes a mistake on the wire hook up for the 16SEER unit.

The installer should look at the low voltage wire diagram on the outdoor unit. Many don't, and they wire up Y1 and Y2 insted of BK Y/Y2 hook up, and not remove the jumper as well.

Also, with a two stage system, you will have long run time since 1st stage is a lower capcity.

Also, 5 tons is a LARGE unit, did the dealer do a Manual-J in your home? (How big and age of your home?)

The wirehook up is on page 5.

http://www.butcherdistributors.com/Images/Interior/4twx6%20installer.pdf

 

[a440]

Dang....

Wes,
This sucks!
I hope it is not all that big of a deal.
To me it sounds like they undercharged the unit!
I can't figure out what else it could be!
Let us know what you find out!
I am sure that it is something simple and they will make is all good.
American Standard is a very good unit!
I am sure it is just some tweaks that they need to perform! Should not need to perform...but need to so the unit is running 100%.
I am sure it will all pan out!
Let us know what you find out.
From a bitch....DON'T PUT UP WITH NO BULLSH#T. IF THEY COME OUT AND IT IS STILL NOT WORKING RIGHT STICK IT TO THEM. THIS UNIT IS TO BE MORE EFFICIENT THAN YOUR OLD COLEMAN UNIT!!!! STICK IT TO THEM OVER AND OVER AGAIN IF THEY DON'T FIGURE IT OUT WHILE SUMMER IS STILL HERE!!!!
Brent

 

[retro-man]

I have 2 of american standard a/c units not the heat pumps. there is a 4 ton and 5 ton unit. both units have no problem with keeping up with the demand of 100 degree days. they cycle on and off keeping the temp inside any degree that you set it to. I've had it at 68 inside with it cycling on and off. Your sounds like there is not enough refigerant in the unit. the temp coming out of my vents is usually 48 to 52 degrees. 68 degrees coming out of your vents is not acceptable to correct cooling. Get the installers back out and watch and ask questions when they are charging the system.
Jon

 

[mayguy]

Retro-man

9 tons!?!? Good greef, how big is your home?? NH as in New Hampshire

 

[2packs4sure]

In that picture I see a new copper lineset.

How long is it and what size is the suction, insulated copper.

Looks like 7/8". Hopefully it's 1 1/8", not the end of the world but on a 5 ton it's better and recommended.

 

[volsboy1]

I got the tonnage wrong it is a 4 ton not a 5 ton the plan was to run a line to my place/Apartment.. Dad changed his mind because I bitched cause I am hot nature and he is cold nature,and they told him they would have to run a bunch of new duct work and a return and cause we are in a flood zone we have to have it in the ceiling and there is not much space to work with. He told me last night to find a Mini split heat pump which works for me..My X owns a Hvac company and I wanted to go with him but he only sells Goodman/Nordyne units but he does sell those Mitsubishi heat pumps. Houston told me that they can heat even down to below zero and that is full capacity ..Houston will install it and everything for 1800 bucks but I do have to take him out to dinner..Its a small 1.5 ton that is really to big but Houston said cause the compressor is inverter driven it don't matter... The main unit is still not working right at all.The house got up to 80 today inside with the T-stat set at 74.. I think they have wired it wrong and the compressor has never shifted up to high.When they were wiring it up it was at the end of the day and they were out of it from the heat and everything I felt sorry for them and heat strokes can happen and when you get that hot mistakes can be made..This is a family owned business there dad and his six great looking sons and two of them are Bi or something cause they were both hitting on me all daylong one of them is GAY as them come but he is married and has two kids which made it even more strange when he wanted to take me to dinner..There Dad I did meet just for a few minutes and he was very very nice.My Dad is calling him in the morning to tell him that its not working so what questions should he ask?Dad has not paid them yet so if they want there money which I think the will it will have to be fixed not just topped off of 410 and go.... Our next door neighbor got her a 3 ton package 16 seer American standard they day before we did and the air coming from her vents was 58 degrees and her house was cold and that unit is to small for her house to start with...

 

[a440]

I would not ask him any questions....

I would tell him what is going on. It is not cooling the house and you have been hot and uncomfortable all weekend!
Bottom line....fix it!
I feel what you are feeling. I have had things installed in the past and present that were not done right. I hate going in back of companies that I hire to make sure they are doing what they are supposed to.
Let us know what you find out.
Take pictures of the brothers!
Brent

 

[a440]

Hi Wes,

Just checking in to see if you had any luck with the installers on the issues you are having with your new system.

Hope everything worked out okay!

Brent

 

[richardc1983]

The Mitsubishi split systems are fantastic, they heat down to -15C (5F)

I have them over here in the UK. Excellent piece of kit! WE have split systems over here we dont have central air con over here in the uk in our houses.