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kb0nes

kb0nes

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Dec 11, 2009
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My co-worker told me yesterday that his 17 year old Bosch dishwasher may be near its end. Seems the electronic control is flaky and now the motor sounds to be failing a bearing. I said that I would probably attempt a repair, but I think he wants new.

So the question is; What does one buy today as a decent dishwasher to get the job done for a small family? I would suspect his wife of being a pre-rinser so performance may not be highly tested.

I'm looking for recommendations for current model machines. Please spare the comments on vintage being better etc. Personally I'd have an older DW too but that won't fly for him. Must be a new machine.

The only experience I have with a modern dishwasher is with a new near-BOL Whirlpool. I couldn't recommend that machine... I'm sure he is willing to spend a little money so looking towards the MOL, say under $800 or so.
 
Agreed,
There's some nice Bosch Ascenta models for under $800.
There's also some decent GE models for under $800.
My parents have the [now discontinued] GDF540 with the dual silverware baskets.
Other than the dry performance being a little weak, and my mom not liking it because it's "different." .... It's been a very good performer.

Maytag makes a pretty solid, and all stainless dishwasher for good prices too.
They're the rare ones with a larger motor and a real food disoposer in them still.

I'd recommend the following:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Maytag-T...l-Tub-and-Steam-Cleaning-MDB5969SDE/205310249

http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-Top-C...rior-and-Steam-Cleaning-GDT635HGJBB/206355375

- The cool thing about the GE is it has two "bottle washing" jets in the top rack.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_534274-3904...?productId=50426108&Ns=p_product_price|0&pl=1

Good Luck.
 
I don't think Bosch changed a lot a day to day customer would recognize.

Baskets gained more flexibility, and the cuttlery basket has changed, maybe height adjustable baskets, but apart from that, the racking is the same basic priciple.

Cycle-wise he might encounter slightly longer cycle times, but for example, if he had a model with soil sensing, the Auto cycle still runs roughly the same time. (If I didn't check the wrong data, that is true for the EU and USA versions.)

Not sure if he had a model with exposed heating element (there were a few arround then I think), but if he has, I can't say that he for sure will get the same drying performance.
But the again, flash-drying by opening the door still works like a charm.
 
Almost forgot

Tell him to stay strong against any sales person he encounters!

Especially with DW talking somebody into spending more is easy due to a lot of show-of features, however, most people I encountered then barely use those features.

For example, height adjustable upper racks. They seem like a nice idea, but usually, most people wash pretty consitent loads (same plates, bowls, cups, mugs in simmilar quantities), thus the rack is adjusted once to fit the day-to-day plates, and then never again.
So, if he is the typical simmilar load washer, he might take that into consideration.

Oh, and Reviewed.com recently released their 2015 recomendations. The winner overall is the same E-Lux as last year, and their best DW under 600$ was the same Frig unit as last year.
So he may want to check out these.
 
I'm not really familiar with any of the current offerings except Whirlpools "pond pump" design that only runs one rack at a time, and of course their Maytag lineup with a proper motor and grinder. Does the Bosch Ascenta have a "real" pump in it and does it only wash one rack at a time too?

And what about GE? I don't like the low level ones, they're noisy and don't wash well IME, but I've never experienced or heard much about the mid level and higher end ones (which I see still have grinders). Do they use a proper pump and clean very well?
 
Bosch's run on either variable speed pumps which go from something below 100W up to (I think I remember it being quoted somewhere) something close to 200W (that's about 1/4hp max.) while their single speed motors hovered arround 150W I think. (Hovered because they completly phased them out over here, not sure about the US though.)

Given these fill not more then a good gallon per fill (roughly), and their hydodynamic designs have been improved several times within the last years, they deliver quite a spray. Not quite pressure washer high, but enough to certanly flip over plastic cups with ease.

They do run on an alternating spray though. But that basicly allows them to not only clean the 2 racks at different spray pressurs, but to concentrate the spray onto one basket.
Oh, and as they don't have those finnicky ball-diverter valves but an actual flow diverter powered by a little motor, they (allmost; maybe a second or two) don't have downtimes to change baskets.

The cycle times for most Bosch models are pretty accurately stated in the manuals.
Something any consumer should do: Read the manual before purchase. No matter what and where!
 
GE Dishwashers

GE's newest wash system uses a little DC motor very similar to Frigidaire.
It's about 60-70 watts. It uses a diverter check ball to switch racks. And it's got a pretty powerful spray, because it splits the task.
The arms have a lot of very fine, needle jets on them too.
They DO have a little spinning blade on the pump, but it's almost useless. It's mostly there for marketing purposes, but doesn't do anything because it's completely behind all the fine filters.

My parents' unit has this GE system. And while cycle times are long, it DOES do a very good job at cleaning.
 
In that pricerange:

Maytag all the way. These are some of the BEST performing and robust DWs made today. It will easily hold more dishes and clean them better than a Bosch. Also at the end of the cycle the machine will be clean with no stinky food and grey water left in the filter. As mentioned upthread it still has a decent size pump and chopper blade.
Otherwise spend the money for a Self Cleaning KA and get the best there is.
WK78
 
What makes a Self Cleaning KitchenAid "the best there is"? Please explain what makes it so special when I thought those were just the same filter design as Whirlpools.
 
That KA demo is very fascinating. The pump looks like it was "upgraded" from the little drain pump they were using, but I see it still pumps about only enough for a fountain in the demo.

Anyone here have a KA with that new system?
 
That looks like alot more spray action then a video posted here of one of those MT's a couple months ago. I think they made it look like it was doing more then it is. But either way it still looks pretty decent.
I'm curious how these Maytags compare in cleaning power to the Maytag Quiet Series 300. Which is what I'd be replacing if I got a new DW. (this one is 10 years old and hasn't had a single issue despite a fairly poor reputation knock on wood)

I'd prefer to go vintage but not in a house with two others that are slobs living here. I'll keep my portable JetClean safely tucked away in the basement.
 
Too bad KitchenAid doesn't show their actual wash system working like in the Maytag Video.

 

The Maytag Video shows that wash arm for the upper rack kind of lame and what I call "chattering". It's wobbling around like it's loose and going to fall off.

 

Another thing that gets my dander up is Three once upon a time competitors now owned by the same manufacturer. Especially owned by Whirlpool Worldwide.  I used to really like Whirlpool but to me it's just the same old crap, just re badged. Granted the "Engineers and Designers" have to deal with the Energy Star bullshit and EPA crap, but for crying out loud save water elsewhere. That just sucks. It's like a restaurant owner owning three restaurants all within a mile and a half radius of each other. 

 

Miele is Expensive. No question about it. But the Miele my friends have ran 12 years twice sometimes 3 times a day and it finally broke down 2 years ago. Very expensive repair but it's still running. And you practically have to put your ear up to it to hear if it's on. The only time you know it's on is when it dumps the wash water into the waste T of the sink and it gurgles in the drain pipe.

 

The last time I looked at Dish Machines, I was in Homo Depot and I can't even remember the brands I looked at because I left in disgust. Every Model I looked at had flimsy doors, cheap shoddy SS interiors, Plastic Wash Arms, and the rack tracks felt like if you pulled those racks out with any force, they would come flying out of the machine or fall off their tracks.

 

I suppose if someone held a gun to my head and told me I had to buy Brand new... And I couldn't afford the Miele, I would go Maytag first, then KitchenAid.

 

After writing this, I may look at machines tomorrow because my Dad bought a house in Florida and it has a Frigi scare in it.  It ran during the home inspection but after I came back up north, it was acting up.

 

So that will be my House Warming gift to them. I do remember looking at Maytag and it's the only one that stood out as far as a build quality.  We'll see.  I'd love to find them a JennAir like the one I just got, but Dad's wife would probably want something Stainless and Quiet.

 

I find that most people I know run their machines at night before they go to bed or while they're out. So what difference makes if it's quiet or not ?  Just me being old fashioned and picky.
 
Why do you charge more to install a Miele DW? I installed both my new KA and Miele and the Miele was a lot easier to do. Both the water inlet hose and drain hose were already attached to the machine. There are side and back panels so no loose insulation which made sliding it into the cabinet space much easier. Also the rear levelling legs can be adjusted from the front of the machine. It took me a lot less time to install the Miele than it did the KA.

Gary
 
I have the new Kenmore Elite model 14833 with the new Clean Water Wash system (Sears calls it MicroClean Wash system).  I have put some moderately heavy soiled stuff in there and have been pleasantly surprised.  But I have not had an opportunity to put some really heavy food soil in there yet.  I will next week with having company and lots of cooking.  I will tell you I was almost dumbfounded with a pleasant surprise.  I put an 8 quart Revere stock pot in the top rack.  Pots & Pans cycle.  It emerged with none of the starchy scale residue that's common on all my Revere pans.  That stock pot looked brand new inside.  My old Elite could never get rid of that.  When I can I'm running all my pots & pans through just so I can get rid of the starchy film on my cookware.  The other thing is I use the extra Smart Dry Plus setting.  I had a mug sitting in the center row totally vertical, not at an angle.  When I unloaded the dishwasher the next day, th4e concave indentation was totally bone dry--I never would have expected that as I haven't had such a dry concave.  Blew me away.  Even the plastic disposable GladWAre emerges almost totally dry but for tiny bits of a little water in the crevices, but not as bad as with the old Elite.  There is one review on this model on the Sear web site.  Typical stupid consumer.  Put the review under the wrong model number because he said he bought the dishwasher over a year ago.  This model 14833 wasn't released to be sold until August 2015.  BTW, if anyone can find the video(s) that talk about the drying system that was referred to at the very end of the almost 8 minute video, I'd love to see them. 
 
.
Here is a Kenmore on sale for $700:

Description Item # 02214743000P Model # 14743

Kenmore 24" Built-In Dishwasher - Powerful Washing and Energy Efficiency

The 24" Kenmore built-in dishwasher 1474 features 360° PowerWash® Technology, which provides a spray arm that delivers a far-reaching spiral pattern throughout the dishwasher giving it the ability to clean even hard to reach areas. This unit also includes the UltraWash® HE wash system, which uses an HE filter that only requires monthly cleaning, to deliver energy-efficient results and works to eliminate even the tiniest food particles. And don’t sweat the small stuff with the Top Rack Only wash option that allows you to wash items only within the top portion of your dishwasher. Lastly, for days when you do not have a lot of time, this dishwasher provides an Express Wash cycle that quickly washes a completely full load of dirty dishes without sacrificing cleaning.

The 360° PowerWash® Technology provides a spray arm that delivers a far-reaching spiral pattern throughout the dishwasher giving it the ability to clean even hard to reach areas
The UltraWash® HE wash system uses an HE filter to deliver energy-efficient results that only require monthly cleaning and works to eliminate even the tiniest food particles
TurboZone® boasts 4 Rotating Spray Jets positioned in the back of the bottom rack to power-clean stuck-on foods while two stationary jets reach into the deepest corners delivering focused cleaning
The SmartDry™ Technology selects the best drying cycle and adjusts to the selected wash cycle for optimized performance
With a 46 dBA sound package you can be sure that you and your family will not be disturbed, even while sleeping

http://www.sears.com/kenmore-elite-...cpncode=36-128943459-2&sid=IDx20070921x00003d
stricklybojack-2015112108403100157_1.jpg

stricklybojack-2015112108403100157_2.jpg
 
.
Another currently on sale, this one a GE and under $600:

Description Item # 02210173000P Model # GDT580SSFSS

The GE® GDT580SSFSS dishwasher with a stainless steel interior and hidden controls was designed to be a big help in your kitchen. Thanks to GE’s most advanced wash system, you can count on consistently clean and dry dishes with every load. A steam prewash option helps to loosen tough, baked-on food so you can skip any soaking or pre-rinsing.

GE’s Piranha™ hard-food disposer with removable filter helps ensure thorough cleaning. So do the three pressurized, full-coverage wash arms and dedicated silverware jets. Even the racks are designed for optimum cleaning, with multi-position, fold-down, ball-tip tines and height adjustments that accommodate even the largest pots, pans and platters and hold everything—even delicate stemware—securely in place.

This stainless-steel GE GDT580SSF dishwasher looks great inside and out. The bright, stainless steel interior is attractive and rugged, ensuring long-lasting durability. The hidden electronic controls provide a sleek appearance, and with cabinet-depth installation, you get a flush facing design that complements the surrounding cabinetry.

This dishwasher is quiet, so quiet you may forget it’s running until an audible end-of-cycle signal tells you otherwise. A clever 1- to 12-hour delay start function lets you wash the dishes at your convenience.

The Great American Kitchen Event-2 great rebate offers from April 1st thru the 28th, 2015 (see PDFs listed below)
Full stainless steel interior provides an attractive appearance and long-lasting durability
GE’s most advanced wash system consistently cleans and dries dishes with 65% more wash power*
Deep-tier Easy Touch adjustable upper rack with 2 Stem Safe accommodates tall glassware and 10-1/2 in. plates with plenty of room in the bottom rack for large platters and cookie sheets
Full extension smooth glide upper rack make loading and unloading smooth and simple
Hidden vent with Fan Assist dry helps dishes extracts interior moisture so dishes dry quickly and efficiently
Lower rack adjustable tines and Wash Your Way customizable rack fit your dishes with adjustable loading options and multi-position, fold-down tines
A dishwasher this quiet (48dBA) has a status light to let you know it is running
3-piece silverware basket with Soft-Touch handle—table-ready silverware is assured with a three-piece basket that can divide and separate for convenient placement
Piranha™ hard food disposer with removable filter has a stainless steel blade that rotates at 3,600 RPM to pulverize food particles and help prevent large particles from clogging the wash arms

* Wash power delivered to each rack. Compared to previous GE models.[this post was last edited: 11/21/2015-09:29]

http://www.sears.com/ge-24inch-built-in-dishwasher-w-hidden-controls/p-02210173000P
stricklybojack-2015112108434006074_1.jpg

stricklybojack-2015112108434006074_2.jpg
 
... We charge the same amount to install a Miele DW as we do a Bosch DW (as well as any other dw).

The difference is Miele doubles the warranty when the service center does the install. We are a service center.

Also, repairs are not half of the original purchase price if they are done by a Miele service center. A Miele service center doesn't have to find their parts through 3rd party distributors.[this post was last edited: 11/21/2015-15:26]
 
Robert it lasted 8.425 years.  Circulation motor was going out--bearing making horrible noises and there wasn't any food residue in the chopper area.  If I ran it once a week it wasn't too bad, but two days in a row or similar, very noisy as the cycle progressed. 
 

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