New Maytag top loaders returned

[lightedcontrols]

MY TOL MAYTAG NEPTUNE

#1. The washer washes really VERY well. At the END of the cycle however, the discs turn to loosen the clothes from the tub. At this point they tangle terribly! Bad idea.

#2. The bleach dispensor doesn't get rid of all of the product, so you get bleach in the next three loads. Poor design. Bleach is also dispensed in the first rinse. How about the last 5 minutes of the wash cycle, where it's supposed to be. What moron came up with this one???

#3. Fabric softner dispenser doesn't dispense all of the product. It only puts water in the last minute of the last rinse's fill. It should add water for the entire last rinse to get all of the product out. More bad ideas.

#4. If you stop the washer the last minute of the cycle, it doesn't spin the clothes in a tangle. I've called Maytag about this and they can't (nor can we) de-program the machine to leave out the last minute of tangle! (Kelvinator had the

 

[jetcone]

Mark I am on tip toe

Kelvinator had the.........what??? tell us!!

I love your reponse by the way!

Are you going to keep it??

jon

 

[appnut]

Mark, bleach in the first rinse has become quite normal with front loaders--I remember you having this as one of your complaints about your old HE3T Bob

 

[Compwhiz]

I can see how it would tangle the clothes terribly

 

[kenmore1978]

bleach timing

Bleachinthe first rinse is a good idea, the reason bleach dispesers were timed for the last 5 minutes of the wash cycle in most machines is that the bleach tended to de-activate the detergent. By dispensing it into the first rinse, this problem is alleviated.

 

[Designgeek]

I think it's a good bet that the reason for the tangling problem is that those discs at the bottom are basically the same as "pulsators," which are already known to cause tangled laundry. Perhaps Maytag figured they could eliminate the problem by having two of them rather than one, to break up the whirlpool-currents that pulsators normally cause. They may also have purchased the design and patents from an overseas company that makes pulsator machines, which are common in e.g. Asia (and apparently enough people use them that tangling is not considered unusual or a big deal).

However it's odd that they didn't discover this problem before releasing the machine onto the market. Or perhaps they have a foreign affiliate, the design originated there, and as per above, no one in (whichever country) complains about pulsator-tangle during testing.

Re. programmability: the programming is probably stored in an EPROM, in which case it could be reverse-engineered with a bit of hacking.

Maytag seem to be getting hit with a bunch of product problems in the last few years, i.e. the FL Neptunes that were cause of a class-action suit, and now the controversy over pulsator tangle. What gives..?

 

[laundromat]

Maytag

MOHP on what has happened to Maytag is that in trying to not only keep up with the pace and meet the desires as well as the needs of consumers,their attempt to increase their top loader's tub capacity (their entire agitator line in no way represents or comes anywhere near the Dependable Care washer's reputation in reliability and performance.However,I would defenately take the models made like Norge before I would even consider the ones made like the Amana/Speed Queen)and try to compete with the front loading washer market.Their refrigerator line has improved 100% now that their sxs's are made by Amana as well as their bottom mount models.But their range line has failed in any improvements and they have had too many recalls for me to feel comfortable buying or selling them.Their"TallTub"dishwashers leave much to be desired.First of all,if you as a consumer are unaware of the need for the side clips to make them fit a comon dishwasher opening and you purchase the beginner models,you're screwed because they aren't included with them.You have to purchase them seperately.Maytag has recently been a bit leaniant about sending them to the customers who were unaware of the need for them or were not told buy their salespeople anything about them but they're starting to get tired of hearing the violin strum.Their OTR microwave ovens look great but be warned,I also sell the "el-cheapo"Ewaves that are also made by Daewoo who makes the Maytag OTR's.We have so far gotten about 35% of them back due to either DOA or board failier.Their compact front loadering Netunes so far/so good.I wish things were different and they had better products as well as more knowledgeable engineers.I do know that Samsung is interested in them but I dought if they would buy Maytag.

 

[laundromat]

maytag

sorry for misspelling doubt and loading.Sometimes my fingers are faster than my brain.Sometimes I hear a lot of moaning when that happens!!!LOL

 

[agiflow]

so sad

So sad for Maytag to be struggling like they are.The thought of a foreign company taking over a company like Maytag would have probably seemed laughable 20 years ago.

At least many people have their old top load designs still running great,....what used to be (sigh).

 

[Designgeek]

Same as it ever was, in one industry after another, and I could cite examples from other fields I'm familiar with.

I think the trend started with Margaret Thatcher, Ronald Reagan, and the ascendancy of Finance over Engineering in the business world, which led to "globalization", and thereby to the de-industrialization of the UK and USA respectively.

Sad as hell to see the good ones go.

In my own industry: Western Electric, 100 years of manufacturing the world's best telephone equipment, solid gold brand-equity if there ever was, a company run by engineers who worked their way up from the shop floor. Transformed via deregulation into AT&T Technologies, thence to Lucent, thence to Avaya, where things presently stand, with overpriced and relatively inflexible PBXs that I can easily beat in any fair competition.

 

[gansky1]

Much the same has happened with GE as well - sourcing low end dryers from Electrolux/WCI because they can't build them as cheap as they can buy them! The plastic tub washers need no further bashing, little or no "novel" engineering went into them - build them fast and cheap with the added value of five year obselecence. Even the new Harmony isn't a GE design - cheaper to source the engineering and manufacturing from Asia.

My stepfather worked for Western Electric here (wire plant) in 1957 through 1990 and saw much evolution into a company that employs less than 1/4 of it's peak number in the 60's and is now set to eliminate even more jobs.

 

[david]

Western Electric

I know we are gettig off subj here-well maybe not. In 1984 there were 7500 workers at Shreveport's Western Electric telephone plant. Today the plant is closed and I'm not sure if anything at all is leasing the building. That's a big blow for a city of 200000. And I know this has been going on nationwide for years now. People do find jobs-some stay most leave, but the upheaval is hard on the individual. But people are only willing to pay so much for a product. This is clearly what we have here. I am afraid of junky appliances, cars, trucks, etc. Our only hope is to keep CU testing everything and make some reasonable choice culled from their information. Actually I'm more afraid of imported agricultural products that slips by USDA inspection and makes people sick. Unregualted free trade? No thanks.

 

[Designgeek]

David & Gansky1, interesting to hear about your own experiences with WE. Re. prices of equipment: Avaya has their stuff made in Asia as well, but it still prices out at about 1/3 more than an equivalent Panasonic PBX configuration; and Panasonic equipment is just as robust and more flexible in terms of programming. The Panasonic stuff is made in Japan and the UK, where production costs and labor are both more expensive than e.g. China.

I agree, foods not labeled for country of origin are scary; "have you had your RDA of DDT today?" Not to mention the potential for terrorist tampering (details omitted for the usual public safety reasons).

David, good point about CU testing. Though I read elsewhere on this site that Consumer Reports seems to be going downhill in certain respects lately.

Which brings us back to topic here, specifically, what about sites such as Epinions.com? I would expect that these are picking up some of the slack from where CU leaves off, with the caveat that "layperson reviews" are not controlled tests. A significant problem such as "impeller tangle" should be evident enough to make it into epinions.com reviews, yes?

On the other hand, I've seen some product reviews on epinions.com that look like they could have been written by people who were working for the manufacturer or retailer. Is this a common problem, and what kinds of steps are taken to minimize the risk of a forum being misused that way?

 

[kenmore1978]

New combos

So one wonders when LG and others are going to get with it and realize that they need to offer combos that run on 220 VOLTS like the original ones did. With the higher spin speeds would take much less time to dry than the original combos did

 

[Designgeek]

Yes, but those would require additional "dryer power outlets" which have to be installed by an electrician, thereby introducing a barrier to people buying them.

Back to Maytag: I recently ran across an Asian manufacturer's website, I think they're in India, which mentioned the three basic washing systems (agitator, impeller, and horizontal tumble). Said that the "American-style" agitator has problems tangling clothes around the central shaft, and says that's not a problem with the impeller/pulsator.

I think what we may be seeing here is the possible effect of different types of clothing and fabrics in different cultures.

Impeller/pulsators are favored in Asia. Agitators in the USA, with horizontals gaining for efficiency reasons and impeller/pulsators starting to come in from Asian manufacturers. Horizontals in Europe (same reason), with some impeller/pulsators, e.g. in compact washers. The key distinction here is between the agitators and the impeller/pulsators.

Yet, the Panasonic Japan site says that their new-type machines don't cause tangling whereas previous models (impeller/pulsators) do, and they even show a picture of someone (trying to) pull tangled clothes out of an impeller/pulsator machine (one of their own machines; to their credit, Panasonic is not above being self-critical).

So this is a mystery. Are there significant cultural differences in fabrics and garments that interact with the type of agitator used, to produce paradoxical results in different countries...?

 

[kenmore1978]

Dryer outlets

"Yes, but those would require additional "dryer power outlets" which have to be installed by an electrician, thereby introducing a barrier to people buying them."

But a lot of people already have those outlets installed, electric dryers are more comon than gas ones, it turns out. They have the outlet, they like the one machine idea, but there's nothing available. Also, there were GAS combos, too, why can't that be done again?

 

[arrrooohhh]

Impellers and tangling

I hate to sound like a tangled wet blanket but all these claim made on the Panasonic web site are advertsing hyperbole. Of course there washing machine is going to tangle less than others. And I dont believe there drift about agitators tangling because of the "big centre post" Its all just claims. The same way one manufacturer says there machine can handle half a kilo more washing than the other, with out the need to increase the size of the tub.

LG and Samsung all make claims about the design of their impellers being less tangle but the fact is that here in australia where impeller and agitator top loaders sell in equal numbers and all sizes and washing Australian clothes that the impellers to tangle to different extents.

 

[westytoploader]

Tangling---Agitator vs. Impeller

IMHO, I think an oscillating, non-corkscrew agitator tangles less than an impeller (pulsator). The Maytag's Power-Fin doesn't tangle at all, not even on sheets. Same with the DD Surgilator, Penta-Vane, and Roto-Swirl. The Dual-Action and LoadSensor (both corkscrews) are another story...WHEW!

The GE Portable's impeller does tangle, however it washes everything well and I haven't pulled anything out that was difficult to "un-bunch"...yet. The two tabletops (one with a horizontal impeller, one with a bottom-mounted impeller) do ball up the small loads that I wash in them, but you're dealing with the tangling on a much smaller scale, so again it's much easier. Like the GE, they are also good performers.

I've had limited FL experience and no GM Frigidaire/Kelvinator experience (at least not until June...YAY), but when I used the White-Westy (simpler, later design with AEG motor and electric pump) and a Frigemore there was virtually no tangling.

--Austin