new product for laundy

[mrboilwash]

According to Bauknecht (Whirlpool) an average adult secretes up to 40 grams of sebum and dead skin cells per day !
Another source mentions 1,3 % dry weight of a medium soiled load is dirt.

Maybe this could be considered not a lot of organic matter compared to what unrealistic detergent commercials have brainwashed us to believe what a heavily soiled load might look like. And maybe it doesn`t matter because most consumers just use those sanitizers to feel good about themselves and not to really disinfect any dangerous germs.
But there is another problem that could arise if you use such products in the prewash. Detergents used in the subsequent mainwash usually contain anionic sufactants. Benzylalkoniumchlorid and the like from the sanitizer are cationic surfactants. The two should not be mixed toghether because they might cancel each other out or even form insoluble deposits.
So if you don`t want to lose too much potency of your detergent you should at least give the load a high speed spin after a prewash with disinfectant to keep carry over at a minimum.

 

[liamy1]

Don’t know...

If it’s the same for the different brands around the world, but re quantity - our “Dettol” version of this product recommends 2 capfuls of this product per wash load.

As mentioned up thread, most of the standard European front loader FS dispensers can no longer hold this amount (due to the compartments getting ever smaller due to concentrated formulations) and of course filling up that compartment too much triggers instant release of the product instead of it holding until the rinse.

Luckily in my current machine I don’t think it’d be a problem (older machine from when softeners were a LOT less concentrated) but haven’t used the Dettol sanitiser in this machine.

I have a bottle of it (only the 2nd one I’ve ever bought) even the first bottle was only half used IIRC; I dropped the bottle and smashed the cap, so it was no longer airtight and not spill proof if it was knocked over, so I trashed it.

Of course my machine reaches 203 deg F, so never really think of using it.

 

[iej]

Yeah very few newer machines hold all that much conditioner at all.

The one thing I'm surprised at is that very few machines have been adapted to dispense tablets and capsules. It would be very easy to design a machine with a simple dispenser, like a modified padel or something that would hold the pod and ensure it got properly sloshed through the water. Or even a chute system that dropped the pod directly into the wash solution after the machine filled.

Also with a growing number of auto dose machines, free running detergents are definitely needed more than they ever have been. Yet, a lot of manufacturers are still making them very gloopy.

 

[liamy1]

Yeah...

I’ve thought that, why don’t they put a flap type door (a bit like a dishwasher one, but obviously like a grill type so water could hit it) in the drum or one of the paddles?

Saying that, I’m sure there was just the one model from Zanussi that had this feature (would have been about 5 years back).

Electrolux in the US have done a 5 compartment detergent drawer, with one section for pods (there a thread on here somewhere about it).

 

[iej]

I'd say there's a bit of difficulty flushing those liquid pods though. They tend to turn to gloopy messes very quickly.

The likes of P&G, Henkel and Unilever should be making their detergents auto dose friendly though. Miele, Bosch and a couple of others now have refillable tank dispensers in a wide range of models.

Ariel liquid isn't too bad but, they could come up with versions that definitely are dosing pump safe. Many of them are deliberately formulated to be gloopy to enable easier pretreatment of stains.

To be honest; I've never ever bothered doing that. Most liquids seem to shift everything without any need for it.

I actually use Ariel PurClean in compartment one of my Miele and their proprietary bleach / wash booster "ultraphase 2" in the other compartment. The Miele detergent is very good but I don't like the scent as much as Ariel PurClean. I find the Miele detergent can smell oddly bitter after a few days. It's not "sour" in the sense of gone like mildew but just this kind of sharp acid tone. I think they need to work on the formula a bit for better scent. It's like it disintegrates after a few days and you start smelling individual components:

 

[liamy1]

Think

It may have been an in drum filter/coin trap and not a detergent dispenser (as per linked).

I’m sure I saw one in local electrical showroom and was advertised as being an in drum dispenser, but IIRC the fact it literally had only 2 (and not even remotely matching) really put me off it, so I went for something else.

So I really don’t know if I’m imagining it now :/ because whilst I remember it looking similar to what’s in the linked, I didn’t remeber it being the exact same. Unless any one here knows?

http://https//youtu.be/HyKhUBzen3w

 

[liamy1]

Just watching

That video a bit more, it’s pretty cool you can see a portion of the outer drum when accessing the filter (but suppose this bit would always appear clean as this is where that water sits), and I suppose there is nothing stopping you shoving a pod in that bit (maybe??).

But the fact the element is exposed can’t be good.

 

[liamy1]

How strange....

Wonder why it smells that way?

I don’t have any experience of the Miele (is it the twin dos?) detergent system. Is the detergent designed to be unscented, or does it carry a scent?

I have though so very often of getting a Miele washer and Dishwasher, but I had one of their Vacuums and between the Vacuum and Miele Service I was (I’m sure surprisingly to most) left with a bad taste in my mouth towards them.

 

[liamy1]

Sorry

Just read your reply again, so it does have a scent. Still odd that it’s smelling acidy though.

Wonder if it’s a reaction to the water, or the dyes in the fabric etc?

 

[iej]

I don't think so. They come out smelling nice then it fades to a sort of nothing or quite sharp tone.
It was worse with regards dryer fragrances. They're horrid in my opinion anyway, but these things are subjective.

I just prefer the more "detergenty" scent of Ariel Pur Clean.

My water's exceptionally soft and very nice generally, so it's not that.

I didn’t like Miele’s fabric softeners at all either. Found them very over scented and old fashioned in the old blue Confort kind of tones.

I’m a total fuss pot about scents though. I find Bounce utterly repulsive and I can’t abide most of Lenor’a fabric softeners and I also don’t really like Unilever Persil - sometimes reminds me of perfume mixed with bubble gum!

So it could just be my rather fussy nose. Other people may like the Miele scents. I assume they tested them out somwhere. Maybe it’s reacting oddly with Comfort Pure too. I must test again.

You’re not locked into Miele detergents with twin dos btw. It has refillable tanks and you can programme any dosing you like. You can fill tank 1 with liquid detergent of your choice and use tank 2 with a wash booster (like Miele’s own one) or use it for fabric softener or a delicates detergent. Endless options.

The machine itself is fantastic, but I’m just not a big fan of some of their detergents. Although their wool / silks detergent is probably the best I’ve ever used! It’s streets ahead of Woolite and smells lovely.

 

[launderess]

IIRC The WI Washers Sold In USA

Do not come with option of refillable canisters for the TwinDos system.

Have no idea is one purchases empty from Europe and refills will work, but guess it should.

 

[launderess]

Leave be clear about something.

This quat product by Lysol similar to others is a "sanitizer", not a disinfectant. The two are totally different both in performance (germ, fungus, etc...) ability and other areas.

Very broadly and basically sanitizers will get one to the last mile in reducing "germs". That is after something has been cleaned and or gross filth, organic matter, or whatever has been largely removed and "germ" levels reduced, sanitizers will take things down a notch further.

Quat based sanitizers are highly affected by organic soil matter. This is why they are used *after* something has been cleaned. Thus putting this Lysol or whatever sanitizer in pre-wash, wash or anything else but final rinse is pointless. You might as well just pour the bottle down drain.

Even laundries that process healthcare or whatever *contaminated* linens do not subject them to hot water and or any sort of disinfection first. Rather that process happens (thermal and or chemical) one or several cycles later after flushing, pre-washing and even one or more wash cycles. This would have reduced soil, gross filth and by extension flushed down the drain large number of "germs". Those remaining can be now dealt with by whatever means.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/quaternary-ammonium-compounds

 

[liamy1]

Smell/scent

Is indeed very subjective and I suppose what makes us all different. I do like some of the scents available, but you’re right, some of them are damn evil.

Lenor have just released (is it the 8th, maybe more now?) unstoppables scent called “Sun Kiss”, I went to go and buy some, geez it was AWFUL, I stood there in the store squeezing the life out of the bottle and sniffing like the proverbial addict to make sure and no it was awful (only way I can describe it is cat wee mixed with sun cream and mixed with citrus). So for the first time ever, I put a new scented unstoppables back on the shelf.

The Lenor parfum des secrets softener I actually like, but it gives me headache, so that’s out now too.

In the last few years I don’t know what on Earth they’ve done to Bold, they all have an undertone of wee.. I’m trying desperately to like it, but it’s not the same as it was.

Persil IMO is the most strongly scented detergent on the U.K./IE market, and after MANY years of not being 100% sure (due to ever constantly using different detergents) I’ve come to the conclusion I’m really “allergic” to the stuff, I itch like CRAZY around that stuff (even down to the point of just being around clothes hung up air drying that have been washed in Persil).

Laundress, from what IEJ said, yes the dos system bottles are refillable with any liquids of your choice (which I think is very good, so you’re not tied (is that a pun lol) to one detergent). Yeah would suppose US could very easily get the bottles shipped over (would even say do Miele not sell empty ones for shipping? The shipping weight must be next to nothing)

 

[launderess]

Yes , if one can manage it

Refilling an empty TwinDos container is doable. However in Europe and elsewhere Miele sells empty containers meant to be filled with whatever products one wishes.

It is those canisters (IIRC) Miele is not sending to North America.

https://blackwellanddenton.com/prod...fillable-detergent-twindos-container-phase-2/

Notice they are absent:

https://www.mieleusa.com/domestic/product-selection-miele-laundry-detergents-1808.htm#16

 

[liamy1]

Strange...

Considering they sell the actual detergents there.

Only thing can think of is that they wouldn’t want to risk someone putting a non he detergent in it (do they even exist now?) and be subject to a lawsuit.

Yes granted someone could do that in the ones that come with detergent, via refilling, but then suppose Miele could cite that they don’t recommend refilling the cartridges sold in the US.

It’s really clutching at straws, but it’s the only thing I can think of.

Of course, as I and U.K./EU members have offered in the past, if any one in the US requires Miele spares to be bought and shipped on, more than happy to.

 

[iej]

The Miele cartridges they're selling in the USA look different, although it could simply be a redesigned bottle or they may be contracting the manufacturing to another company to avoid bulk shipping of cheap products.

It would be interesting to see if they're a different shape to specifically lock people into the system.

I think the other aspect in Europe is they might end up with a PR disaster if they did that.

Over here Miele are just a high end brand. They're expensive but they're not some kind of ultra exclusive, uber-special brand. Think more like Maytag of old or SpeedQueen. They're top of the brand tree but they're making steam.

Their vacuums are also increasing very dominant in the market and they own a big chunk of the dishwashing business.

Whereas, the impression I get in the US is they're very niche and very high end, even if they're more or less identical machines. They might get away more with selling special exclusive detergent in the states than they would in their home market.

Also auto dose machines aren't that unusual anymore and other brands, notably Bosch / Siemens just use any liquid detergent so, it's definitely something that would have caused a PR and marketing issue in Europe it were any kind of attempt to lock people into consumables.

Their detergent pod dose system in my opinion is a disgraceful waste of plastic. They've these over sized Espresso like pods that are placed into the fabric softener slot in the drawer and you close the lid, puncturing the top very much like a Nespresso pod.

The machine then fills through nozzles into those punctures and also breaks open a sealed plaeoc syphon in the pod.

There's a staggering amount of plastic in them for a single wash!

 

[launderess]

Since North American Owners Of W1 Washers

Already can use any sort of detergent they wish via dispenser drawer, there are only a handful of possible reasons not to allow refillable canisters.

One is the obvious, to lock persons into spending $18/ea. USD for a new detergent or bleach cartridge.

The other is Miele simply doesn't want to risk their precious dispenser system to the vast and bewildering array of products on USA detergent market. Sort of far fetched but there you are then.

Would be interesting to see if anyone from USA does get their mitts on the refillable canisters from Europe, and found they did not fit or work with the USA machine. That would be telling in of itself.

Suppose only way to find out is contacting Miele USA and asking.

 

[iej]

There's a bewilderingly array of products on the European shelves too, and they vary by country to add even more confusion.

Miele has had autodose systems before, including a quite complex system for dispensing powders.

I think it's basically down to the fact they'd be torn apart by the consumer magazines in Germany and elsewhere. They're hugely sceptical about the Twindose system from a cost point of view and I think a lock in would tarnish the brand.

Also TwinDos were a failure, they risk having to continue to supply detergents as spares decades to come.

I would suspect the US division is simply less worried about ensuring they're not locking customers in. It made a lot of money over the years out of selling specialist detergents in a way Miele hasn't been quite as pushy in Europe.

 

[launderess]

Yes, but however

One is more than unusually certain laundry detergents in Europe have long by now sorted the "HE" aspect of things.

Meanwhile here in USA things can be rather uneven.

Did a small load of dress shirts the other day in Miele using barely 15ml of Cheer "stay colourful" liquid. Can you say froth?

After four rinses and before final added some defoamer to kick things down so could get on with things.

Have still not figured out how detergents here can say "HE" but show both huge top and front loading washing machines.

Is one to believe both machines use equal amounts of water for washing?

 

[iej]

Well, yeah that's one difference.

The only time I've encountered a major problem with foam was with a US produced eco detergent that I can't remember the name of. It was definitely just imported directly by a health food store and I tired it out of curiosity for some reason. They just had a clear label with some importers name added to the big jug of detergent.

As soon as the machine got a few minutes into the cycle there was foam spewing out of the drawer of the machine onto the floor!!!

I had to add fabric softener to the wash premixed with several litres of water in a mop bucket, poured through the drawer to calm it down and then force several rinses manually with more fabric softener and then redo the entire wash with normal detergent.

The product was as high foaming as dish soap.

The are plenty of good eco detergents on the market here that work very well. I've never seen they one again (unsurprisingly).

There are probably still a few automatic top loader agitator machines around in Ireland. They were a niche market but, some people clearly bought them and you'd have seen one or two models on the floor of most major electrical retailers until a few years ago and Hotpoint used to do a version of the filter flow that was "Europeanised" for residential use. As far as I'm aware that disappeared in the late 1990s.

Larger capacity front loaders caused the niche to disappear and also their energy ratings and wash performance ratings were rather poor and carried on the label as per EU norms. The spin speed also maxed out at 800 which is something that European machines are very competitively marketed on - you'd be fairly surprised to see anything slower than 1200 these days with better machines usually being 1600.

TLs used to crop up in light commercial use - mostly Maytags and Speedqueens but it's all light commercial front loaders now, Miele and Electrolux being the main contenders.

Those top loader machines would have largely been used with normal European style front loader detergents. High foaming stuff has been rare for more than 40 years at this stage.

Back in the day, they used to suffix the brand with "automatic" to imply low foaming.

Persil Automatic
Ariel Automatic
Bold Automatic
Surf Automatic
Daz Automatic

That branding carried into the 80s even though non automatic versions were fairly hard to find.