I went to my local library to see the new issue and was pretty disappointed. I can see in the local stores TL washers are disappearing pretty fast. I also saw that Haier has a TL at about $1000 dollars in the report!?!?. Seems to be a pretty dismal time for appliances across the board.
New Ratings on Washers in Consumers Reports!
- Thread starter peteski50
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Give everyone in the third world a free television, and free
Probably the best thing to do to save the earth's resources is to drastically reduce the number of human births.
And then teach the ones who are here to value resources and respect the earth.
Young lady co-worker in my office runs an electric heater all summer in our over-chilled suite, rather than wearing a sweater or something with which to cover herself. Sleeves darlin, think sleeves...... (Ya know, it's an OFFICE lady, your plunging v-neck shirts and blouses don't have to be so revealing as to make one wonder if that really IS chest hair they see on you.)
The above-referenced office building uses electicity for heating and for hot water at the taps. There is natural gas service already in there. This is a needless and DISGUISTING waste of resources.
Here is what it takes a very simple law or ordianance-
"When natural gas, propane or fuel oil is present, straight resistance electric heating shall not be employed as the primary source of heating, but may be used as supplemental indivdually controlled unit heaters (not central heating) not to exceed 10% of the building's total heating requiments"
There is so much corporate and industial waste of resources and energy all over. I have yet to see even ONE industrial buidlng that is insulated. Why go after domestic use? Probably because no one will fight it.
Methinks we are headed in the entirely wrong direction.
Bottom line is, one needs adequate water with which to wash and rinse if results are important.
Probably the best thing to do to save the earth's resources is to drastically reduce the number of human births.
And then teach the ones who are here to value resources and respect the earth.
Young lady co-worker in my office runs an electric heater all summer in our over-chilled suite, rather than wearing a sweater or something with which to cover herself. Sleeves darlin, think sleeves...... (Ya know, it's an OFFICE lady, your plunging v-neck shirts and blouses don't have to be so revealing as to make one wonder if that really IS chest hair they see on you.)
The above-referenced office building uses electicity for heating and for hot water at the taps. There is natural gas service already in there. This is a needless and DISGUISTING waste of resources.
Here is what it takes a very simple law or ordianance-
"When natural gas, propane or fuel oil is present, straight resistance electric heating shall not be employed as the primary source of heating, but may be used as supplemental indivdually controlled unit heaters (not central heating) not to exceed 10% of the building's total heating requiments"
There is so much corporate and industial waste of resources and energy all over. I have yet to see even ONE industrial buidlng that is insulated. Why go after domestic use? Probably because no one will fight it.
Methinks we are headed in the entirely wrong direction.
Bottom line is, one needs adequate water with which to wash and rinse if results are important.
magic clean
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2004
- Messages
- 511
Well Florida is in the midst of drought currently. There is continual talk of tighter water restrictions, yet the population growth continues.
The link shares an interesting story about the potable water shortages ocurring now.
http://floridatrend.com/article.asp?aID=46658#link3
The link shares an interesting story about the potable water shortages ocurring now.
http://floridatrend.com/article.asp?aID=46658#link3
After reading the new CU washer reviews-it convinces me the "water and energy saving" washers are a flop-scrap the laws-and give us washers that use MORE of that universal solvent to clean our clothes and yes even our dishes.At this point your best washers are the vintage ones at the swap and thrift shops.Bet the "Mr Dixon Swap shop" will have MORE business this year!Thats the place I go for those vintage machines.
seeitrun2006
Well-known member
Double talk
Several years ago when consmer reports started pushing Maytag to the side they told in their report to buy a washer with only the basic cycles and minimal options on it. I think the Maytags had the orbital transmission at the time. CR that particular year in their report showed Kenmore to be the top TL washer to buy. They even downrated the Whirlpools. Each Kenmore listed as a "Best Buy" was the Kenmore top of the line overly featured machine. After that CR in my opinion lost it's attraction for me. CR seems to show favortism toward Kenmore. Makes you wonder if Kenmore was giving big donations to CR. Like maybe buying off someone to swing the reports their way?
Several years ago when consmer reports started pushing Maytag to the side they told in their report to buy a washer with only the basic cycles and minimal options on it. I think the Maytags had the orbital transmission at the time. CR that particular year in their report showed Kenmore to be the top TL washer to buy. They even downrated the Whirlpools. Each Kenmore listed as a "Best Buy" was the Kenmore top of the line overly featured machine. After that CR in my opinion lost it's attraction for me. CR seems to show favortism toward Kenmore. Makes you wonder if Kenmore was giving big donations to CR. Like maybe buying off someone to swing the reports their way?
westyslantfront
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2004
- Messages
- 1,718
For all the concern about conserving water, the same people are washing their cars, watering their lawns, and filling their pools.
And with the computerized front loaders "balancing" the load before a spin, the cycles are long, thus using extra electric.
I fail to see where all the savings and conservation is here.
When asked, I recommed a Whirlpool/Kenmore/Whirltag direct drive top loader. Tired of all the eco-bolsheviks.
Ross
And with the computerized front loaders "balancing" the load before a spin, the cycles are long, thus using extra electric.
I fail to see where all the savings and conservation is here.
When asked, I recommed a Whirlpool/Kenmore/Whirltag direct drive top loader. Tired of all the eco-bolsheviks.
Ross
Old made new
Here is a thought-how about making a vintage set new again?Instead of just fixing what happens to be wrong at the moment,just upgrade everything that is likely to give problems before using them?Certainly one would want to start with a dependable brand,but it seems to me that I could have a GE FF set,for example,totally rebuilt,and have a dependable daily driver that actually gets the job done for about the same $$$ as a new TOL FL set.What say our experts?
Tom
Here is a thought-how about making a vintage set new again?Instead of just fixing what happens to be wrong at the moment,just upgrade everything that is likely to give problems before using them?Certainly one would want to start with a dependable brand,but it seems to me that I could have a GE FF set,for example,totally rebuilt,and have a dependable daily driver that actually gets the job done for about the same $$$ as a new TOL FL set.What say our experts?
Tom
I bought the June CR yesterday, sat down and read the entire artical--(if you want to call it that). Their are major--MAJOR-- discrepincies in what they wrote and what the ratings are. In frontloaders, sister machines such as whirlpool/kenmore--cycle times are different. Yet when you pull the manuals on line--the same cycles from each machine are estimated at the same lenght of time (maybe only varing by a few minutes). Thus they tested these machines on different cycles and rated the "gentleness" as if it ran the same cycle. Another discrepincy is that the Kenmore Elite rates 24 (or Number 3 in the ranking for frontloaders) was rated as a "topload HE" machine?!?!?! (there is a little 1 in []. well, you go the the bottom of the chart and that [1] says "These top-loaders do not have center-post agitators and are often called "high efficiency" or HE Models". Well, the HE5T is not a toploader--so where in the H@ll did this come from????????? With inconsistancys like this, which is what i've noticed happening more and more over the years with CR is why I don't rely on them for anything. Another thing to note is that since Whirlpool/Kenmore/Maytag/Kitchenaid are all the same machines basicly with the same drum design, how can one be more/less gentle than the next??--Ok maybe one uses less water than the other but probably not by much.
sorry--my fault
I re-read the artical again and they DID'T say that the HE5T was a toploader. It was giving the model number.
I re-read the artical again and they DID'T say that the HE5T was a toploader. It was giving the model number.
irishwashguy
Well-known member
I have never found front loaders rough on clothes
I have had three front loaders, Maytag Neptune, Fridgidaire, and my Miele. I love my Miele, although, I would have to say that the Fridgidaire is a good value for the money, it washed my Denim comforter with no problem, unlike the Meptune that would rock and roll when it was trying to spin that, as well alot of things.As far as the water levels, when the program permits it, I always use the water plus, or on my machine it is sensative setting, sometimes it will just do it anyway.The Gentle setting is the most genterous setting, that is really full of water, believe me. I also have a program that is costom, i can set it anyway I please, no mater how rediculous or absurd. I had to use my Mothers Maytag when I was in the middle of moving, I thought that was rougher on my clothes than my front loader was, and I noticed that the color was a little faded, just slightly.I used it growing up, they can wash good, in my humble opinoin, I like what I bought, although, it is hard to beat almost anything old, especially appliances. They for the most part do build crap now in this age of our throw away country.I have alot of old things that just keep working and never quit. Vintage or Miele.I just have a hard time with all of the plastic things. They just have never done it for me.My vintage KitchenAid, build like a tank, that they will have to pry out of my dead cold hands, and I don't rinse my dishes off, they always come clean and the program uses 16 gallons of water, Pots and pans soak and scrub, my fav
I have had three front loaders, Maytag Neptune, Fridgidaire, and my Miele. I love my Miele, although, I would have to say that the Fridgidaire is a good value for the money, it washed my Denim comforter with no problem, unlike the Meptune that would rock and roll when it was trying to spin that, as well alot of things.As far as the water levels, when the program permits it, I always use the water plus, or on my machine it is sensative setting, sometimes it will just do it anyway.The Gentle setting is the most genterous setting, that is really full of water, believe me. I also have a program that is costom, i can set it anyway I please, no mater how rediculous or absurd. I had to use my Mothers Maytag when I was in the middle of moving, I thought that was rougher on my clothes than my front loader was, and I noticed that the color was a little faded, just slightly.I used it growing up, they can wash good, in my humble opinoin, I like what I bought, although, it is hard to beat almost anything old, especially appliances. They for the most part do build crap now in this age of our throw away country.I have alot of old things that just keep working and never quit. Vintage or Miele.I just have a hard time with all of the plastic things. They just have never done it for me.My vintage KitchenAid, build like a tank, that they will have to pry out of my dead cold hands, and I don't rinse my dishes off, they always come clean and the program uses 16 gallons of water, Pots and pans soak and scrub, my fav
frontloadfan
New member
Is the problem too little water or lower water temp?
Hi,
My Consumer Reports came today. It was interesting reading how top loaders are not performing as well as they had. I wonder if the problem is reduced water or reduced water temp? Listed below is a quote from the article that suggest rather than using less water, the problem may be lower water temps.
"Today most top-loaders only get a good washing score, and some had the lowest scores we've seen in years. One washer, with an overall score of 19 (out of 100) is one of the lowest scoring washers in this and past reports. Several major manufacturers are meeting the new energy standard by lowering wash water temperatures. But during this often lowers the washing performance."
Switch to another topic, CR rated LG Tromm Steam washer as the best front loader. Second most highly rated was the Whirlpool Duet. CR then made the Duet as a quick pick but referenced that the Whirlpool is being phased out.
Does anyone know what is going on? Is it a case where they judge that the brand "Maytag" has more appeal so they will sell the Duet type machine under the Maytag tag (Maytag Epic)?
I noticed that the Duet 9400 is listed as selling for $1,200 while the Maytag Epic is listed at $1,400.
I was disappointed that CR did not include the new larger Miele in its testing. They tested the smaller Miele and rated it at the bottom of the scale.
Hi,
My Consumer Reports came today. It was interesting reading how top loaders are not performing as well as they had. I wonder if the problem is reduced water or reduced water temp? Listed below is a quote from the article that suggest rather than using less water, the problem may be lower water temps.
"Today most top-loaders only get a good washing score, and some had the lowest scores we've seen in years. One washer, with an overall score of 19 (out of 100) is one of the lowest scoring washers in this and past reports. Several major manufacturers are meeting the new energy standard by lowering wash water temperatures. But during this often lowers the washing performance."
Switch to another topic, CR rated LG Tromm Steam washer as the best front loader. Second most highly rated was the Whirlpool Duet. CR then made the Duet as a quick pick but referenced that the Whirlpool is being phased out.
Does anyone know what is going on? Is it a case where they judge that the brand "Maytag" has more appeal so they will sell the Duet type machine under the Maytag tag (Maytag Epic)?
I noticed that the Duet 9400 is listed as selling for $1,200 while the Maytag Epic is listed at $1,400.
I was disappointed that CR did not include the new larger Miele in its testing. They tested the smaller Miele and rated it at the bottom of the scale.
I haven't see this CR article, but...
It's probably not that the WP is being completely phased out. CR has a history of testing models that miraculously have been discontinued or replaced by other models that are similar but not tested.
Unless, OTOH, WP is discontinuing the Duet line because it is the same as the Maytag Ensemble and the Kenmore HE4/5 and they don't want to compete with themselves. :0 Right!
It's probably not that the WP is being completely phased out. CR has a history of testing models that miraculously have been discontinued or replaced by other models that are similar but not tested.
Unless, OTOH, WP is discontinuing the Duet line because it is the same as the Maytag Ensemble and the Kenmore HE4/5 and they don't want to compete with themselves. :0 Right!
Ratings in CU
I no longer pay much attention to CU-their ratings seem fairly irrelevant, and not just with laundry equipment. A year ago I bought a Duet HT pair, and I for the life of me can't understand the complaints of not enough water. When I wash filthy, greasy work clothes (my day job is self-employed comm'l. refrigeration/restaurant equip/HVAC repair), I use the "sanitary cycle," which provides the hottest watter. My clothes come out spotless. Yes, it looks like there's hardly any water in it (the tub is tilted toward the back, so there's much more water in the back than the front), but results are results! The sanitary cycle takes a long time-if I select "more time" and extra rinse, it takes 2 hrs.- but it does the job and then some! Other cycles take far less time. As to energy use-the motor in a Duet uses about 130-150 watts while tumbling and 300-360 while spinning (specifically while accelerating). This compares with 600-900 watts for a typical top loader, whether agitating or spinning). I've yet to have a load of clothes come out of it that I didn't like the looks of
I no longer pay much attention to CU-their ratings seem fairly irrelevant, and not just with laundry equipment. A year ago I bought a Duet HT pair, and I for the life of me can't understand the complaints of not enough water. When I wash filthy, greasy work clothes (my day job is self-employed comm'l. refrigeration/restaurant equip/HVAC repair), I use the "sanitary cycle," which provides the hottest watter. My clothes come out spotless. Yes, it looks like there's hardly any water in it (the tub is tilted toward the back, so there's much more water in the back than the front), but results are results! The sanitary cycle takes a long time-if I select "more time" and extra rinse, it takes 2 hrs.- but it does the job and then some! Other cycles take far less time. As to energy use-the motor in a Duet uses about 130-150 watts while tumbling and 300-360 while spinning (specifically while accelerating). This compares with 600-900 watts for a typical top loader, whether agitating or spinning). I've yet to have a load of clothes come out of it that I didn't like the looks of
I picked up the issue yesterday and was shocked to see the slip-shot reporting they have done on laundry appliances. They made it sound as if they aren't going to do full testing on dryers anymore, we shall see.
John Lefever and I were talking about this the other night and he made a good point about the Kenmore brand in the reliability ratings, which are fundamentally flawed to begin with. By taking only data gleaned from "subscriber surveys" they would naturally include everything from major mechanical/electrical troubles to the minor problems like loose trim and user error blunders like a quarter in the pump or a ball-point pen has shredded the door boot. The average consumer doesn't differentiate between user error and product quality - if they have to write a check for service, the product is simply viewed as junk and they check the box or darken the circle under the "needed service" column. The other fundamental flaw in these ratings, as John pointed out for the whole range of appliances, is that the Kenmore brand is slapped on products from many different manufacturers and there is absolutely no way to tell if the Whirlpool-made units are any better or worse with regard to reliability than the GE, LG or Frigidaire/Electrolux units.
One of the other infuriating things I noticed in the text of the story is their recommendation on replacing washers based on age. If you had a five year old washer that needed a pump and a drive coupler for total cost of $180 in repairs, how in the world does it make sense to send that machine to the landfill when the odds are, that machine would probably run trouble free for another five years or more? It's better to junk it and spend more than double on a toploading washer that doesn't clean as well? Or, spend over a grand on a good performing front loading washer that you, by CR's timetable, could only get seven years from? CR seems to now be contributing to the "throw away" society we have become rather than encouraging consumers to make wise choices of quality and value.
John Lefever and I were talking about this the other night and he made a good point about the Kenmore brand in the reliability ratings, which are fundamentally flawed to begin with. By taking only data gleaned from "subscriber surveys" they would naturally include everything from major mechanical/electrical troubles to the minor problems like loose trim and user error blunders like a quarter in the pump or a ball-point pen has shredded the door boot. The average consumer doesn't differentiate between user error and product quality - if they have to write a check for service, the product is simply viewed as junk and they check the box or darken the circle under the "needed service" column. The other fundamental flaw in these ratings, as John pointed out for the whole range of appliances, is that the Kenmore brand is slapped on products from many different manufacturers and there is absolutely no way to tell if the Whirlpool-made units are any better or worse with regard to reliability than the GE, LG or Frigidaire/Electrolux units.
One of the other infuriating things I noticed in the text of the story is their recommendation on replacing washers based on age. If you had a five year old washer that needed a pump and a drive coupler for total cost of $180 in repairs, how in the world does it make sense to send that machine to the landfill when the odds are, that machine would probably run trouble free for another five years or more? It's better to junk it and spend more than double on a toploading washer that doesn't clean as well? Or, spend over a grand on a good performing front loading washer that you, by CR's timetable, could only get seven years from? CR seems to now be contributing to the "throw away" society we have become rather than encouraging consumers to make wise choices of quality and value.
Agree with everything you say, but remember one saves quite allot of money obtaining parts/doing service work oneself. Those who must call a repair man are at his mercy, and usually that cost can run dear. Mark-up on parts, then billing for time and labour all add up to cost that sometimes equals near half of buying new. That is the reason so many people chuck otherwise decent appliances to the curb.
Well that and so many appliances now are made from parts that are NOT designed to be replaced, and or come as a huge assembly. Case in point are the Electrolux front loader, which last time one checked the outer tub, bearings and so forth were one entire assembly. Should the bearings go (and they did) it meant pretty much chucking the entire machine as removing the bearing for replacement was pretty near impossible. One brave soul over no THS did it and you can be sure he won't be in any hurry to do it again any time soon.
L.
Well that and so many appliances now are made from parts that are NOT designed to be replaced, and or come as a huge assembly. Case in point are the Electrolux front loader, which last time one checked the outer tub, bearings and so forth were one entire assembly. Should the bearings go (and they did) it meant pretty much chucking the entire machine as removing the bearing for replacement was pretty near impossible. One brave soul over no THS did it and you can be sure he won't be in any hurry to do it again any time soon.
L.
twinniefan
Well-known member
same in Oz.
For what it's worth folks, we get pretty much the same results from our leading consumer magazine Choice,virtually every time they do washing machines the front loaders always come out on top with only a handful of top loaders getting anywhere near acceptable results, and for the same reason,government water and energy saving regulations.
Interestingly enough though, now the Australian government has recently introduced a new test requiring a minimum standard of rinsing from washers and some of the front loaders fail this new test, in particular one of the Haier front loaders wehich apparently is one of the most water efficient on the market.
How can these government officials have it both ways?, they insist washers be water efficient and yet at the same time they also demand that washers rinse properly,what do these galoots think washers rinse with fresh air??? hey!government washers actually rinse with water so make up your mind what you want.
Laundress,never fear! you always your trusty Hoovermatic to fall back on, so get out those guns and protect it as well.
I too am getting tired of these enviro-nazis and doomsayers telling us the end is near there actually is plenty of water here in Sydney, it is just that the N.S.W. State Government do not invest nearly enough in water harvesting collection of rainwater and recycling of water, indeed when it rained heavily here a couple of weeks ago,it was reported that enough rainwater fell on Sydney to supply the city supplies for another 2 years, howeve these boffins think that spending 3 billion dollars in building a de-salination plant is the way to go.
In fact this is starting to annoy me sooo much, vthat I am considering going out and buying the largest top loader I can think of and using it more than the twinnie, just to annoy these people,(and probably before thay ban top loadrs all together).
Cheers folks.
For what it's worth folks, we get pretty much the same results from our leading consumer magazine Choice,virtually every time they do washing machines the front loaders always come out on top with only a handful of top loaders getting anywhere near acceptable results, and for the same reason,government water and energy saving regulations.
Interestingly enough though, now the Australian government has recently introduced a new test requiring a minimum standard of rinsing from washers and some of the front loaders fail this new test, in particular one of the Haier front loaders wehich apparently is one of the most water efficient on the market.
How can these government officials have it both ways?, they insist washers be water efficient and yet at the same time they also demand that washers rinse properly,what do these galoots think washers rinse with fresh air??? hey!government washers actually rinse with water so make up your mind what you want.
Laundress,never fear! you always your trusty Hoovermatic to fall back on, so get out those guns and protect it as well.
I too am getting tired of these enviro-nazis and doomsayers telling us the end is near there actually is plenty of water here in Sydney, it is just that the N.S.W. State Government do not invest nearly enough in water harvesting collection of rainwater and recycling of water, indeed when it rained heavily here a couple of weeks ago,it was reported that enough rainwater fell on Sydney to supply the city supplies for another 2 years, howeve these boffins think that spending 3 billion dollars in building a de-salination plant is the way to go.
In fact this is starting to annoy me sooo much, vthat I am considering going out and buying the largest top loader I can think of and using it more than the twinnie, just to annoy these people,(and probably before thay ban top loadrs all together).
Cheers folks.
