New water boiler

[thomasortega]

Finally last night I installed my new tankless water boiler, after two weeks waiting.
I still don't know why I wanted it, but now it's there.

As I was tired, I just installed a hose to fill the Affinity but, when I have some free time (maybe in two or three centuries) I'll install a pipe to fill the other 7 washers.

The heater works great! I have to set it to minimum otherwise it'll cook my clothes.

Just wanted to share this happy moment with you.

 

[oldhouseman]

Congratulations

Thomas!

I put in a tankless water heater two years ago and I saved more than enough money to pay for the cost of it the first year in service.

I hope you find this as energy saving as I did. My gas bill dropped 80%. I would never go back to a conventional tank.

When you have some free summer time come visit me in Georgia during July and find out what a humid summer is all about!!!

My partner speaks your native language and always wanted to move to Brazil. He would if he were 21 again but he is over 50 now and wonders about it.

Thanks for sharing the information and pic. I'm glad you made the change.

Greg/oldhouseman

 

[oldhouseman]

Oh, I see

your heat/humid problems are the reverse of our in the southern part of north America.

I wonder how some of my ancestors delt with that after they moved there in 1865 after our civil war. Over 20 thousand Americans from the south moved to Brazil after the war to escape yankee domination of America.

I bet you get great savings since you set the machine to the lowest setting. Please let us know about the utility bill the next few months.

My machine was set for next to the highest temp. And I still had great savings.

From all you have posted about Brazil it makes me wonder if we should move there!!!!

Greg/oldhouseman

 

[thomasortega]

Hi Greg!

Well... actually I think there won't be any difference in my bills because I NEVER use hot water.
Now I'll start to use hot water sometimes, but just because I have the heater. I just bought it because it's cute.
As the "cold" water is very hot sometimes, the washer fills with almost boiling water, even if I set it to minimum gas flow and maximum water flow.

My washer has an internal heater too, but I never use it. (maybe I used it once or twice to try only)

Here in my building the "cold" water has to be chilled during the day on summers or they come out of the faucet hot enough to make tea.

Maybe in 2009 I'll spend some days in the USA to meet my new friends from AW. You and your partner are also welcome to visit Brazil and if you visit my city, please let me know so I'll prepare the guest room... I think you should also consider moving to here. My country is fabulous, specially our food and our people. Our life quality is fantastic.

 

[toggleswitch2]

Hi Thomas.
Nice toy!

PLEASE tell me that heater is vented, or installed outdoors.

 

[thomasortega]

Steve
I'm crazy, but not enough to kill myself with the fumes. LOL

I didn't install a vent duct, but there's a huge window always open a few inches beside it. It stays active for about 2 minutes only, which is the time I need to bleed the cold water from the pipes and my affinity takes to fill considering my water pressure. It also doesn't have a pilot.
Heaters with pilot flame are forbidden in Brazil since late 80's. this model uses two batteries to produce a spark and has many safety devices, including a CO alarm that shuts it off if the CO level is too high.

 

[toggleswitch2]

Quidate mucho.

~It stays active for about 2 minutes only.

Life changes and ends in only one minute just as it only takes two tablespoons of water (30ml) to drown.............

BE CAREFUL.

"But my grandmother had unvented heaters for 30 years".
She was lucky and they STILL may have contributed to ill-health. There are FAR safer and better options. Why ingest/breathe poisions when avoidable?

Is the propane bottle in the house or ouside? Was the propane already exisitng for your stove/cooker/oven/BBQ?

 

[iheartmaytag]

I NEVER use hot water.

BRRRR--I hate cold showers.

When It comes time to replace my water tank, oldhouseman has convinced me. I am going to install a tankless. I am just worried about an outside install with our cold winters. I will more than likely have to have a powervented version in the basement.

My High Efficiency furnace has a power vent, it seems to do ok. The CO detector hasn't gone off anyway.

 

[thomasortega]

hehehe.
Please don´t worry.
I know gas appliances can be really dangerous and I always care about my safety and health.

If you see my installation, you'll agree with me.
less than 10 inches to the left there´s a huge window that I always open before starting the heater.
on the right side, there´s a balcony. It can be considered "outdoors"
I live on the 6th floor so it´s always windy.

My building has a 5 ton gas tank on the ground floor and gas pipes to all apartments. I´ve installed a T connector and a new pressure regulator valve, since the heater and the stove use different pressures.
The gas connections and regulators are built in the wall, and there´s a service door, just like a fuse panel. It´s next to the affinity washer (right side).

There are also a gas alarm and a CO alarm in my building that shuts off the main gas pipe on the ground floor when they activate. If it fails to detect the situation, there´s a panic pull station in the kitchen.

My bbq is charcoal/wood, everything in my kitchen is gas, except a portable induction cooktop.

As you´ll see by the picture I took last night, the heater is installed above the washing sink, next to the affinity pair.
There is the huge window (actually 4 windows side by side) and you can see part of my bbq.
Do you remember my pool´s photo? there you can see the bbq and the balcony.

 

[rayjay]

Tankless Water Heater

Greg, I am interested in a tankless water heater when my current water heater goes. I am tired of replacing them. I buy very good water heaters, but they do not seem to last. One went in 3 years, the other 6 years. I have mechanically softened water, so I do not know what the problem is.

The question I have is how fast does the hot water come out of the faucet after it is turned on? How is the unit sized? Number of people in house, or how many faucets you have?

Thanks for you help.

Ray

 

[dalangdon]

We have a Bosch Aquastar, and have been very pleased with it. It gives us enough hot water for two showers at one time (we've tried it - it works).

Ours is natural gas. They have electric versions, but make sure to check with your local utility before you install it, as they can cause brownouts if your neighborhood's transformer isn't prepared for it. Depending on how your utility bills for consumption, it might also subject you to a demand charge.

 

[thomasortega]

I hate cold showers too.

I have an electric heater for the bathrooms, plus electric shower heads as a backup.
I just need to use it on winters (less than a month/year).

All the other months the water is heated by the sun.
But we also don't need those solar heaters.

During our summers, instead of heating the water to the "hot" pipes, There's a chiller on the fop floor (kind of a mix of a giant tankless heater, a giant dishwasher and a giant air conditioner) to cool down the water to the cold pipes.
Here´s a chiller sample.. almost the same as I have in my building.

 

[thomasortega]

There are many tankless options.
The best brand in Brazil is Komeco. (and I think they´re made in Japan). We also have Bosch. They are excellent (same as Komeco) but 3x more expensive.

My model is the smallest one (8 litres/minute) but there are options to up to 45 litres/minute.

It takes only two seconds to start, after you open the faucet and less than 3 seconds to water starts to come our of it heated.

So, it will take aprox. 5 seconds more than your usual heater.

The best thing about tankless.... you can leave the hot water faucet open forever and you´ll never be out of hot water.

 

[oldhouseman]

I put a tankless water

heater in my house. Love it. Very cheap utilities and I never run out of hot water. I would never go back to a tank system.

I was not real pleased where the plumber placed the unit but he was trying to balance the distance between the side of the house the kitchen is on and the other side where the bathrooms are. His concern was how many seconds it took for the hot water to reach each room. At least I can do some creative landscaping to hide it. Because it is a gas model the local utulity required it to be mounted outside. In summer my gas bill rarely goes over 15 dollars.

 

[iheartmaytag]

Oldhouseman,
I may have asked this before, if I did forgive my Alzheimer's.
How cold does it get in your area in the winter? Do you have a freezing problem with the heater outside?

 

[rayjay]

Tankless Water Heater

Greg, I see that you have it outside. Do you get freezing temps in your area? I am in NJ, where it does get quite cold. So I would have to have mine inside the house, and vented throught the wall or chimney, (which ever is recommended by the manufacturer. In our area there are a lot of makes. One is Rheem. Luckily, the kitchen would be right over the unit, (as is now my water heater), and the bathrooms are another floor above , but all in the same area of the house. I am just tired of replacing water heaters. I buy top of the line ones, A.O. Smith, State. Now I have a Rheem.

 

[whirlcool]

When we were replacing our last hot water tank, I asked about the tankless models. The company said that they could do one with capacity similar to the tank we had and it would be $5K installed. Yup, $5,000 USD.
Our hot water tank is in our attic. All they would have to do is replumb maybe 3 feet of pipe and put a vent thru the roof. Are these instant hot water heaters that expensive?

 

[rayjay]

Are these tankless water heaters that expensive?

Hi Whircool. If you go to the Rheem or Bosch website, or do a Google on them, you can find the prices. I have seen a Rheem for a 2 bathroom house for around $1,700.00. Have not priced the Bosch. I think $5g is a little high.

 

[thomasortega]

OMG

R U sure about that?
I think I´ll move to the USA and work as a heater installer. LOL

Here in Brazil they´re much cheaper than tanks.

The biggest and the most expensive BOSCH or KOMECO model with digital remote control costs something around USD900

The user manual says you need to call the official service to install the unit, but installation is so simple that you can do it by yourself and then call them just to check it before you turn it on. (that´s much cheaper).

Of course, you MUST check your local codes. In some countries or regions, only an authorized service is allowed to install or fix gas appliances.

 

[rayjay]

Thomas, WOW, Maybe I can order one from Brazil? lol I think, because the tankless units have just started surfacing over the past 5 years, is what is making them so expensive. Most people in the USA have tank models. Air Conditioning, heating and water heating/plumbing is expensive here. Although it all depends on what area you live in.

I had a Rheem 10 year warranty heater installed 2 years ago and it cost me almost $900.00

 

[thomasortega]

When I go to the USA on vacations, I´ll have to take more than bottles of Guarana soda and Havaianas sandals with me...
Will I have troubles with the customs if I take 20 water heaters in my luggage and say it´s "for my personal use"? hahahahahahaha

Here in Brazil we have tankless heater since mid 70´s, but they became popular in the 80´s.
But... Heaters are not so popular here in brazil because of our hot weather. 99% of the houses and apartments has only 1 pipe for the cold water and they use electric showers.
The best manufacturer in Brazil is Lorenzetti. I have 2 units installed in my apartment and they work great. They are very cheap to install.

http://www.lorenzetti.com.br/site_in/portal_duchas.asp

 

[iheartmaytag]

I looked at Lowe's

Yes I am stsrting to think I live there.
And they had a Reehm for $900, then installation. I don't know what labor would be, but I would think it could be brought in for much less than that.

Now the guy did tell me that you have to have a larger gas pipe to handle the larger burner for the heater. I already had that up to my house so it would just be a matter of plumbing to the unit itself.

He still didn't tell me if it would work in the basement. I am pretty sure I saw one with a powervent for this application.

 

[iheartmaytag]

Electric Shower heads

Interesting--I never knew they had such a thing.

 

[rayjay]

They do have one with a powervent. So far, it is the best water heater I have had. Quick recovery also. I do not know why the prices are so high for water heaters. My parents had a gas water heater since 1962 in their new house, and yes it was replaced many times. But you did not think much about replacing it because it did not really cost that much. Don't mind paying a premium, but would like it to last more that 5 years.

My grandmother had a Sears Homart model, that lasted over 30 years. And yes, there was a lot of hot water use there.

 

[rayjay]

Smuggling water heaters

Thomas, I think you would make some good money bringing over these water heaters. lol

 

[thomasortega]

Well, here in brazil there are many power vented units.
most modern tankless heaters don´t need a big vent pipe.

One of the models I saw when looking for my heater has a "supervac" technology.
The vent is thin as a garden hose, very flexible and you can make as many curves as you need but there´s an electric device you install outside home.
this device works like a vaccum cleaner (but it´s not noisy)

 

[oldhouseman]

The winters here

are mild compared to your area Ray, Iheartmaytag. Last winter we saw some 16 degree temps. I'm in middle Georgia. It's much warmer in the southern part of the state and colder in the north of the state. Being in the middle it can be a mild, warm or cold season. Most winter days are mild, down in the 30's at night up to the 50's during the day. The last week of December usually gets pretty cold and the worst part is Jan. and Feb.

I don't see how folks in the north stand those bitter cold temps and all the snow and ice. We very rarely see any snow at all and just get alot of rain and overcast days. You can go for weeks at a time with overcast skies.

My tank has more than paid for itself. In atlanta my gas bill ran almost 100 dollars a month. After doing a breakdown of the bill I figured I was paying 60 dollars a month just to keep the hotwater tank heated. That was about the time the restoration in Sparta came to the point of installing the plumbing. I was dead set of having a tankless heater.

 

[iheartmaytag]

I just found this site on the web. Prices not too bad if you consider a 20 year useful life and a 50% savings on energy.

I have a gas heater now, but the man at Lowe's thought code would require it be outside, or a power vent because of the large burner like 144,000 btu and up. compared to the 40,000 btu tank that is there now. This is also why they require a larger gas service pipe.

http://www.tanklesswaterheaters.com/tanwatheat.html

 

[rayjay]

Greg, It does get cold and damp at times. This winter we did not have as much snow.

Your utility costs for gas does seem quite high. My gas bill for last month was $32.00. That is for hot water heating and a gas grill,(which I probable only use once a week). There are only three of us in the house, we do not take long showers, and I have a front load washer, and run the dishwasher once a day, (unless entertaining).

Now in the winter that is a different story. Usually in the coldest Jan and Feb, the gas bill is $300.00 or a lot more.

However, I have a split level which is hard to heat. last year I had a small boiler installed for the 4 rooms on the slab, (2 family rooms. foyer and den. I love baseboard heat. The other two levels get heated off the forced hot air furnace(I hate this heat.).

I think the key here is getting a hi-effiency furnace, water heater, appliances, air conditioning, etc. I noticed a considerable drop in my gas bill even with the two furnaces operating. And I do like my house warm in the winter and cool in the summer.

 

[oldhouseman]

I was glad Ray

to be rid of the place in Atlanta. As I have restored the house in Sparta I made sure to use some money saving devices. Some are low tech. I didn't put central heat or air in the house. Even with temps getting up to 100 this summer my house stays about 74 degrees. The way it is sighted, tall ceilings, center hall, etc.. it stays comfortable. My partner insisted on having a window unit in his room. He keeps it freezing in there, about 63 degrees. The electric bill runs around 25 dollars and the gas about 15. In the winter the gas goes up around 70 dollars. We heat only the rooms we use with gas logs in the fireplaces (7 fireplaces). If we are not using a room we close the door and keep the heat off in that room.

I have only two ceiling lights. One in the hall and one in the dinning room. The windows let in enough light that we don't need to turn any on during the day. In the winter we use alot of candles and lamps. And it adds to the charm of living in such an old house. I made provsion when the electric was installed to have plenty of power outlets for lamps and appliances but so far we have kept it all minimal.

I couldn't help but laugh last week when the real summer heat set in. I noticed my dogs, two Boxers, brought all their toys in from the yard and stayed inside. They have a doggie door so they can come and go as they need. They went into the library where it stays pretty cool in summer and took the toys with them.

Here is a picture of the door I made for the master bath, it opens into a small courtyard area the dogs have their own door can come and go as they want.