newer washers and dryers

[toploader1984]

i am so sick and tired of hearing about "going green" the government is way out of control, mandating water usage on toilets and washers, now we are being forced to buy expensive JUNK front loaders that cost a small fortune, and your LUCKY if they last over 5 years, banning phosphates in laundry detergent, now u cant even get clean clothes, not to mention a regular incondecent light bulb will be non existent by 2010, only to be replaced by junk made in CHINA that if full of mercury and a health hazard if it breaks, like we don't have enough made in china. (sigh) what happend to the good old days. anybody else feel the same way???

 

[toploader1984]

it's nice to help the environment, but i should at least have a CHOICE as a consumer to buy what i want.

 

[maytagbear]

Uh,

that is why, as much as possible, I buy re-sale/secondhand.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[turquoisedude]

Going Green? Yeah, right!

I am sure that the net energy usage of these "Modern" green appliances is still higher than an older model - if you have to run a modern dishwasher twice to get the dishes clean versus running one cycle on an older dishwasher, then where is the saving? I have a newer, "energy efficient" dryer in my apartment in Montreal that I have to run at least twice to dry a regular load - the 1966 Inglis dryer in Ogden dries a full load the first time round (average cycle is about 45 minutes).
And 'green toilets'? Flushing three times instead of once makes no sense to me!

 

[rayjay]

Flushing three times instead of once makes no sense to me!

I know what you mean. The only efficient toilets are the Power Flush ones, Gerber, Koehler, etc. These flush better than the 5 gal. ones.

Now for the front load washers, dishwahers.........What is the saving? If the machines takes and hour and 1/2 on the average to do a load of clothes.....it may save on water, but what about the electricity??? Is there a savings there? Again, I still do not believe these "new" front load washers rinse the clothes properly.

 

[davek]

Rinsing

I don't think that any of them rinse properly! When I had my big Whirlpool, I always left it on 2nd rinse. Now that I'm using my little portable, I use the Permanent Press cycle for washing, then do a Cotton/Sturdy rinse & spin. The water change in the Perm. Press cycle amounts to a semi-rinse.

Also with my big Whirlpool, I would sometimes use the 2nd rinse option to improvise a "Super Wash." If a load was especially soiled, I would use a huge amount of detergent in the wash cycle, then I would use the fill water to rinse the remaining part clinging to the cup and put that in the softener dispenser until it was full of Detergent Lite. That way (or so I figured), the first rinse would actually be a lighter wash cycle and then the final rinse would be the rinse. Oily foundry sand and machine oil didn't leave stains or smells behind doing that. In fact, I've found that food oil probably leaves a dark spot more easily than mineral oil.

 

[washerboy]

front loader

I agree with rayjay..my other half bought a front loader last year...he's proud of it so I'd never say anything..but his clothes and laundry in general are not clean...I've done his wash for him a few times in his machine...it does'nt seem to have enough water..so...is'nt there some way one could "tweek" something to put more water in the drum.

 

[lebron]

treehugger here

I am actually going to disagree with most of you, we only have ONE planet, and we need to do everything we can to keep it clean, etc. If the government doesn't mandate anything, nothing will get done. Yay for being able to breath clean air and drink clean water.

 

[rayjay]

front loader

Mark, I think the clothes are well...sort of washed okay, but there should be more water in the rinses. I always use the extra rinse in my LG which gives it 3 rinses, but I just do not feel that this gets out all the detergent residue. It is hard to tell because I use an HE detergent.

I agree with using a front loader over a top loader to save water, but this is over kill. I had a White Westinghouse LT800E back in 1984, it used 1/2 or 1/3 less water that a top loader, but you still saw water, splashing, etc. It rinsed very well too.

Why is not government not happy with one of those from the past?

 

[yogitunes]

i'm all for going green....but you guys are right...how can we be saving the planet against energy and water usage and yet i'm throwing out a machine every five years or so and filling up the land fill....like they actually recycle the whole machine...rather than build a machine that we have shown with a little TLC can last many moons...problems for the companies is thats ca-ching in our pockets and not the the big companies or the government....i'll stay with the older machines....

 

[toggleswitch2]

Reduce, Reuse, Recycle

We could also mandate that EVERYONE have a photo-voltiac solar collector on their roof that plugs in to the electrical grid. STOP BUYING FOREIGN OIL.

We could mandate better insulation in new construction and eventually in retrofits. Commercial/industrial buildings are not insulated AT ALL in my city.

We could mandate a GAS dryer hook-up instead of an electrical one if a newly-built home has proapne or natural gas used anywhere else in that apartment. Transparent to user, better for the environment.

We could mandate a fossil-fueled hot water heater in new construction when that fuel is already used for the heating system. Again, an electric hot water heater should be be a last resort.

In my city, if the end-user paid for heat rather than have it (over) supplied by the landlord, there would be a huge savings in energy, assuming individual units were not electric.

President Obama, for heaven's sake, keeps the White House much hotter (during heating season) than most people can stand it. WHY?

Why not do the things that are transparent to the user and put the burden on businesses rather than impose restrictions on consumers in their residences.

Homes have gotten way too large. Tax McMansions as energy-hogs.

...and if you really want to "go Green" ban lawn chemicals, insecticides and pesticides SLOWLY so that aternative methods can flourish.

And last, but not least, for the true "green" out there- advertise heavily and make it clear that having one "additional" child is the worse thing that one can do for the environment.

LOL talk about random thoughs!

 

[jdinstl]

LeBron, I am a tree hugger as well...

...and agree, we have one planet which we have hitherto abused.

BUT...the above posters make excellent points.

"Going Green" has gone from being an environmental concern to being the latest trend or "fad." And when that happens, look out.

What is "green" about a 50% non-biodegradable washer that doesn't do the job and will be in a landfill in 5 years -- versus Grandma's 30 year old Frigidaire that yes, uses a lot more water but gets the clothes cleaner.

Cleaner..so you or the kids don't have to put cream from a non-biodegradeble tube onto a rash, because of leftover detergent and softener. Or have to buy additional products in plastic containers to deal with allergic skin reactions. Or waste water doing multiple washes and rinses.

Somehow, I think Grandma's Filter-Flo has over the 30 years of its life been a heck of a lot "Greener" than what we have in landfills currently. And when it does give up the ghost and can no longer be repaired, the most dangerous thing will be the transmission oil, a couple of plastic knobs, and maybe the paint fleks. The remainder will return to the elements as rust.

The newer green stuff...aliens from other planets will dig these one-eyed monsters up a couple thousand years from now, get sick from the fumes released from the landfill and probably think these they're skeletons from a different race of being.

Lastly -- what exactly is "green?" Like when I had a janitorial business. I could order product from a vendor that was Green*. Why the asterisk? Well...it really didn't qualify as "green" until you diluted it 10:1. The dilute fell under the allowance where you could say "green." Meanwhile, the original product was shipped in HAZMAT containers. I kid you not.

LeBron, I'm with you all the way. It's great that people are thinking "green", "environmentally friendly" and so forth. It really is. But people need to unpack the term and products a bit more and see if it's REALLY what is says. Toploader's example of the incandescent versus "green" bulbs with mercury is a perfect example of the unpacking that needs to be done. These new bulbs may use less energy...but when you look at the whole picture -- their "footprint" is no better than the old way. Trading a few volts for mercury is not a solution.

Stepping off wooden Fels-Naptha soapbox now...

John

 

[robliverpool]

i do agree that something needs to be done with regards to cars pumping out fumes etc but the new so called eco washing machines are rubbish and as for lasting 5 plus years most of the new machine i have had over the years have been lucky to make it to 13 months without having to disposed of as its cheaper to buy another machine than to get new pcb's or bearings repaired.

my mothers old hotpoint is in regular use and its been handed don thru the family and is still working perfect after 22 years, only needing the brushes replacing, ok it uses more water but the clothes come out cleaner than in my 3 year old washer.. everything is plastic now an mass produced with no proper quality control its all money money money

 

[toploader1984]

to all the tree huggers, u might agree with me on this one.

people worry more about being green then what we put in our bodies, what the government SHOULD mandate is all the chemicles, hormones, and preservatives that is put in food, it is more expensive to buy organic foods than say junk food, it SHOULD be the other way around, yes i would like to save the environment too, but how is saving a few gallons of water going to do anything?? we are forgetting about our health in this currently "GREEN" society, a perfect example is the light bulbs with mercury, we are willing to sacrafice health in order to save a watt or two.
just my 2 cents.

 

[jdinstl]

TOTALLY agree with you on this one...

...toploader. We scratch our heads about cancer, illness, issues with children...all the while pumping chemicals, hormones, etc., into our food supply.

And rob....how many of the "new, energy efficient" appliances would your mother have gone through in the 22 years of its existence? How much water, fossil fuels, etc. would go into making the "new, energy efficient" appliances that would span the 22 years of your mother's Hotpoint? I'll bet a heck of a lot more than that Hotpoint has ever used. That's what I mean by "unpacking" the definition.

Build enduring, long haul quality and looking at the entire picture is far and away "greener" than the injection moulded 90% plastic washer saves a gallon of water or save a dime with every dump toilets that are forced upon us by law.

ARGH!

*spins head like Linda Blair* It gets so frustrating!

John

John

 

[jdinstl]

Lordy...

I sure butchered that post, didn't I?

I hope the point comes across. If not, my apologies...it was a "Green Enery Efficient" post. ~~

 

[iheartmaytag]

Toggles,
I will only disagree with you on the GAS dryer mandate. Never liked them. Turns the clothes yellow, stinks, gas much much expensive in our area than electricity.

 

[maytagbear]

Odd...that has

not been my experience with gas dryers at all...my whites are white, there's no unpleasant odor.....I've only used/owned gas dryers.

I am not saying that it couldn't happen. I am just saying that it hasn't happened to me.

I would think that if most gas dryers performed similarly, they would totally disappear from the market.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[dblrinz]

"Unpacking" the definition -

My partner manages an environmental insurance division for Willis International and has been talking about Carbon Footprints for years longer than it has been the new buzz word. I have received quite the education via him and he has broken me from my 2 - 3 cases of bottled water per week habit that I once had. We have made some changes - We joined a local CSA, we keep our home at a winter temp that is a little cool/cold for most, we have changed out some of our light bulbs to the compact florescent and yes I/we agree with the mercury issue, but these lights are on from dusk 'till dawn so we felt it was the best idea. We try to buy as much from local dealers though understandibly some of it is still shipped a great distance.

He has always been of the philosphy that a quality machine that lasts thirty years such as my grandmother's Maytag is much more green than a newer machine that will likely be replaced in 5 to 10 years. He has seen the statistics of what it costs the environment to make one new machine and he says that we can't possibly do as much damage consuming water in an older model dishwasher or washer as we can by purchasing a newly made product every 5 years.

It seems that my grandparents lived greener than we can ever possibly live. They grew a garden from which they got their vegetables, they had 2 stoves in their lives used heavily and daily, 2 refrigerators...Just as a way of life they did not consume unless it was needed. My grandparents were fortunate people and could afford to consume more than they did, but it was just a way of life to get what you needed and use it as long a conceivably possible.

Our society in general just seems to be more disposible today...The Hubby calls it the Walmart syndrome. One can cheaply buy something new whenever one feels like it and replace when they are bored with it which is usually around the time it breaks.

AS for laundry - Give me a machine that uses water to get the job done...I grew up with wringers and sudsavers and as gross as this may seem to some our clothes were always clean, white/bright-respective to their intended color and well rinsed...I can't believe that wasn't as green as these "new" machines.

Thank you - I have now stepped of the Tide box...

 

[paulg]

I'm with DBLRINZ

Dblrinz and I are on the same wavelength.
In addition:
We have started our new "victory garden" and hope to raise some food.
I shut off the extra fridge between parties and holidays.
I look at our garbage can contents and try to find out how to reduce our trash.
Personally I don't take "Energy Star" toooo seriously. I buy for the long term and try to use products efficiently. If I think vintage will perform and serve better than new with reasonable efficiency, I use vintage.
Generally I try to do more with less - except when it comes to alcohol. Tee hee.
Still working on reducing "ghost" consumption of appliances due to standby circuitry. Example: I have a DVD player in the family room which is used twice a year! But it consumes standby current all year long. Gotta stop that but it ain't easy.

 

[yogitunes]

you guys make excellent points...

you wanna go green....food for thought...lets hear some ideas of how we "conserve" our individual resources...

i put potato/cucumber/onion peelings around my plants and scrubs...they flourish big time....

i let the water from the tub and washer flow out into the yard...i have the greenish plush lawn without chemicals or watering

what do you think?

 

[davek]

A friend of mine (civil engineer) once repeated something a professor told him: "dilution is the solution to pollution." Take aresenic in drinking water. The current (as of about 2001) allowable amount was about 5 times more than the lowest measurable limit. To pit it another way, if you have one gallon of unacceptable water and add 9 gallons of arsenic-free water, you're left with 10 gallons of "arsenic-free" water in that its arsenic content is below measurable limits.

To put it another way, if you wash the same load in two machines, using the same amount of the same detergent, and both clean equally well, you've put exactly the same objectionable content in the water even if machine A used 12 gallons and machine B used 24. As has already been said, if machine B outlasts machine A and its replacement-machine C, what was green there? I would even guess that the older machine would be easier to recycle.

I don't leave faucets running or anything, but water is not something that's created or destroyed (in general). It's a looping system of rain and flow to oceans. The dirt and detergent are bigger deals than the water use. Don't let anyone make you feel guilty about using faucet water. Bottled water doesn't make sense if you have a filter pitcher anyway.

As for CFLs, I use and like them. I also don't believe that they're the least bit 'green.' Regular bulbs used to be made in the US, and would be shipped in minimal packaging the short distance to your store. CFLs are generally made in China or Hungary, packaged in plastic blister packs, and shipped halfway around the world where they still have to make the same trip that the regular ones did. They're heavier and require more materials as well. Use them if you like them, they might be 'green' by saving you a little money.

 

[toggleswitch2]

~Toggles, I will only disagree with you on the GAS dryer mandate. Never liked them. Turns the clothes yellow, stinks, gas much much expensive in our area than electricity.

Agreed. CAn yellow clothes.But I'd rather gas over nothing since dryers can be seen as wasteful.

Never noticed a smell.

Wow really? Is your electric hyrdo-electric or nuclear? Because it takes three units of gas to make the electricty needed to dry what one unit of gas USED directly would do, therefore gas is usually (in most areas) 1/3 the cost of using electicity for heat.

 

[lavamat_jon]

How about banning tumble dryers full stop?

Have used the tumble dryer only a handful of times this year so far purely in emergency, otherwise opting to dry my laundry on the line or on the clothes horse if the weather is bad. Laundry doesn't shrink, has more "body" to it, towels are still fluffy if shaken out once dry, and things have a more fresher smell.

It's how the majority of UK (and I daresay European) households dry laundry, without wasting electricity or money on something that is simply not needed - even towels and bedding will dry in a matter of hours, and I can easily dry up to 6 loads of laundry inside until I run beyond drying capacity on the clothes horses - or 8 loads or so outside until I run out of line. Hang up tees and shirts on hangers - either directly on the line, on the corners of the clothes horse, or on the special "over the door" hooks you can get specifically for hangers - and you eliminate the energy needed for ironing too - no matter how fast the washer spin speed. Hanging shirts and tees on hangers, I hardly have the need to iron at all - can't remember the last time I actually needed to iron. Again, saving even more electricity which I see as a waste in the home.

Just a thought,

Jon

 

[toggleswitch2]

I'd say have a default to a gas dryer by law in new construction, when it's avaialble.

I never said outlaw conversion (of that laundry room) to electric, or stop selling electrics.

 

[maytagbear]

For some situations,

doing without a dryer is not feasible. I live in a rather marginal neighbourhood, and even if I could hang laundry outside, chances are good to excellent that my nicer things would walk off.

Furthermore, I am not about to expose my laundry to the traffic dirt--I live on a busy, busy state route.

I don't have a car, so I think it rather balances out.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[jdinstl]

Same here, Lawrence...

...my neighborhood is ok....I live in a 6 unit apartment building. 5 of us are just fine, but one couple (who are fighting loudly as I type this) have ruined our equipment in the common laundry area. So I now have a portable in my apartment, and a 110volt chinsy dryer.

I guess in a way that's "greener" than using the 220 downstairs. Probably offset by multiple loads in the portable versus the full size.

John

 

[lavamat_jon]

Still - with all due respect - laundry can be dried naturally without being dried outside.

At uni, I have my clothes horse set up in my rather small bedroom. I still have space to set it up (it's a 3 tier one), without it getting in the way - as well as having room to hang tees on hangers both off the curtain pole and on over the door hooks. I can do a load of laundry in the evening and it will be dry by morning - the fact I always keep my window open probably aids this.

I do not believe there is any situation where a dryer is necessary - if we in the UK can dry laundry indoors in the tinest of our houses, or dry laundry outside even in inner cities - without clothes being covered in dirt/soot - then I'm sure most people in the US - with bigger houses and gardens - can do it .

Jon

 

[jdinstl]

According to Wikipedia...

...another name for "clothes horse" is "winterdyke."

I'll let you all think on that one.

Jon, I've been pondering getting one of these, and I think your post just cinched it.

I have in mind a "laundry center" sort of design with my portable washer, cheesy dryer, small ironing press, and storage. Rather than go verticle (stackable) go horizontal have workspace, albeit compact workspace. The dryer is a ventless that exhausts to the front through the door. I think a clothes horse set up in front of that (not close enough to block flow, but to catch some of the heat) would be beneficial.

Thinking out loud here...

John

 

[lavamat_jon]

Hehe yes - I'm a quarter Scottish, and that's what some of the Scottish side of my family calls them . Always makes me chuckle.

I would imagine it would be quite beneficial - actually Whirlpool here sells a drying rack that goes on top of the dryer and hangs over the front, so you can flat dry woollen sweaters etc whilst using the heat of the tumble dryer.

Only disadvantage is you still have to use the dryer... I've found stuff dries quickly especially if you keep the window open a snick even if its only for an hour or so.

Jon