no power to drain valve kd-18
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No power to drain valve coil
Most likely a timer problem, if you are lucky it could be dirty contacts in the timer.
I would try connecting at least two 100 watt light bulbs to the wires going to the drain valve coil and letting the timer advance through a few drain periods, if there is dirt on the contacts this might burn it off.
Most likely a timer problem, if you are lucky it could be dirty contacts in the timer.
I would try connecting at least two 100 watt light bulbs to the wires going to the drain valve coil and letting the timer advance through a few drain periods, if there is dirt on the contacts this might burn it off.
Tried the light for no power to drain valve kd-18
cleaned and put power to valve. drain valve works fine. Timer is new but could be bad. Can't figure out why it drains by pushing cancel/drain but not during normal use. Uses the same circuit right or is there a splice somewhere I'm missing. Everything else works fine. Are there other part numbers for timers for this model?
cleaned and put power to valve. drain valve works fine. Timer is new but could be bad. Can't figure out why it drains by pushing cancel/drain but not during normal use. Uses the same circuit right or is there a splice somewhere I'm missing. Everything else works fine. Are there other part numbers for timers for this model?
No Automatic Drain
When you push Cancel-Drain you set up a parallel circuit to the DV, you either have a bad timer or a broken pink wire or bad connection at the timer. Did you try a 200-500 watt load on the timer contact ? You may also be able to remove he timer and adjust the DV contact, otherwise try another timer.
When you push Cancel-Drain you set up a parallel circuit to the DV, you either have a bad timer or a broken pink wire or bad connection at the timer. Did you try a 200-500 watt load on the timer contact ? You may also be able to remove he timer and adjust the DV contact, otherwise try another timer.
no power to drain valve kd-18 superba
Ripped the whole door apart and the timer. This is the second timer I put in it. Timer is definitely new. Can't find another one anyway. There is no sign of use or wear on the points or any of the moving parts and all of the wiring is good. Replaced drain valve still no joy. The only thing left is the push button switch. There might be a kd-18 up for grabs.
Ripped the whole door apart and the timer. This is the second timer I put in it. Timer is definitely new. Can't find another one anyway. There is no sign of use or wear on the points or any of the moving parts and all of the wiring is good. Replaced drain valve still no joy. The only thing left is the push button switch. There might be a kd-18 up for grabs.
I'm looking at the KDS-18 schematic wiring diagram as found in the service manual. According to it, the pink wire from the drain valve is connected to both a terminal on the timer, as well as a terminal on the push button switch unit. The diagram labels both timer and push button terminals "D". The push button switch connection provides power to the drain valve when the Cancel/Drain button is pressed, but the timer terminal should provide power over the same wire to the drain valve when it is time to drain. It does this through an "SIS", also known as a Sub Interval Switch. For the 90 second drain timer interval, this switch is open the first 5 seconds, closed the next 60 seconds, then open the last 25 seconds of the interval, which only lets the drain valve stay open for 60 seconds of the 90 second interval. This switch is also responsible for the low water level fills by only allowing the fill valve to receive power for 60 seconds out of the 90 second interval. Whether power is sent to the fill valve or the drain valve is controlled by another switch in the timer.
Check to see if the pink wire goes to the timer as well as the push button switch unit, and if it does, check that the connection at the timer terminal is good.
Check to see if the pink wire goes to the timer as well as the push button switch unit, and if it does, check that the connection at the timer terminal is good.
stevet
Well-known member
Don't despair!
If you have a new timer, there is probably nothing wrong with it, but stranger things have happened to any number of us.
I have a few of the program switches if you should need one, but since the door is apart, check to make sure that the cancel bars on the switch are moving completely and easily. When you unlatch the door, there is a linkage of sorts that moves the bars back into the switch to line up the contacts. Some guys have disassembled the switch and cleaned up the contacts but you really have to be careful with it.
I am in the process of cleaning out my garage and have a KDS18 that I am thinking of parting out and the timer is relatively new and works fine. So if it comes to that, at least you know where to find one.
If you have a new timer, there is probably nothing wrong with it, but stranger things have happened to any number of us.
I have a few of the program switches if you should need one, but since the door is apart, check to make sure that the cancel bars on the switch are moving completely and easily. When you unlatch the door, there is a linkage of sorts that moves the bars back into the switch to line up the contacts. Some guys have disassembled the switch and cleaned up the contacts but you really have to be careful with it.
I am in the process of cleaning out my garage and have a KDS18 that I am thinking of parting out and the timer is relatively new and works fine. So if it comes to that, at least you know where to find one.
Pink wire is in good shape
Double checked the wiring and getting .05 ohms connection to connection timer to valve and timer to push button terminal, so good continuity there.
Does the service manual show anything in the push button switch besides the cancel/drain that puts power to the timer then the drain valve? Now that I've pulled it and the timer is on my workbench I'll rig it with voltage and lights through the timer and measure continuity and voltage drop in the timer as the drum turns. The push button switch is the only valve/switch that hasn't been replaced. This thing should work!!! The only other part I didn't replace was the rinse dispenser. Don't use it and I'm not sure if it worked or not.
Thanks for the great info.
Double checked the wiring and getting .05 ohms connection to connection timer to valve and timer to push button terminal, so good continuity there.
Does the service manual show anything in the push button switch besides the cancel/drain that puts power to the timer then the drain valve? Now that I've pulled it and the timer is on my workbench I'll rig it with voltage and lights through the timer and measure continuity and voltage drop in the timer as the drum turns. The push button switch is the only valve/switch that hasn't been replaced. This thing should work!!! The only other part I didn't replace was the rinse dispenser. Don't use it and I'm not sure if it worked or not.
Thanks for the great info.
stevet
Well-known member
Dispenser..don't worry about it now
The dispenser has nothing to do with the drain valve. But when working, you should hear it make a clunking sound as the pump turns on at the final rinse. That will be the dispensing solenoid opening to let a metered amount od rinse agent to go into the machine.
You can apply 115 volts directly to it and it should energize. If it doesn't then it needs to be replaced. I have 2 spares and the one in the dishwasher as well if you need to replace it.
One other thing you may want to check and it is not always easy to do with the machine installed:
Make sure that all of the white wires on the bottom of the machine and their slip on connectors are intact,connected and not broken anywhere. Many of them are daisy chained for lack of a better word and that can lead to problems. Usually the problem is in the connections on the bottom of the machine so start there. It happened to me years ago and I destroyed a timer looking for the problem and replaced it and the problem was still there and then I checked and found a broken connection down below.Hope this helps.
The dispenser has nothing to do with the drain valve. But when working, you should hear it make a clunking sound as the pump turns on at the final rinse. That will be the dispensing solenoid opening to let a metered amount od rinse agent to go into the machine.
You can apply 115 volts directly to it and it should energize. If it doesn't then it needs to be replaced. I have 2 spares and the one in the dishwasher as well if you need to replace it.
One other thing you may want to check and it is not always easy to do with the machine installed:
Make sure that all of the white wires on the bottom of the machine and their slip on connectors are intact,connected and not broken anywhere. Many of them are daisy chained for lack of a better word and that can lead to problems. Usually the problem is in the connections on the bottom of the machine so start there. It happened to me years ago and I destroyed a timer looking for the problem and replaced it and the problem was still there and then I checked and found a broken connection down below.Hope this helps.
Take a look at the schematics I've linked to on my web site below. I'm no expert by any means, but I'll try to explain how I think things should work.
If you trace the pink wire backwards from the drain valve, you'll see where it goes to both the push button assembly, and where it goes into the timer at terminal D. Notice how it goes to the lower half of a timer contact switch. The other side of that switch goes up to the SIS switch, which is closed for 60 seconds per timer interval. You'll also notice the top half of the timer contact switch heads out of the timer via terminal F and through the dark blue wire to the overflow protection switch, and then through the black wire to the fill valve... this is the path that is taken to do a low level fill, where a long fill is controlled by the timer contact T3 when it is in the up position, as it is in the diagram. Notice that power to the SIS switch is provided by timer contacts 16, 17, 18, 19 or 15, which all come from the push button assembly depending on what button happens to be pressed. But in all cases, if power is getting to the SIS switch from the push button assembly, you should have both low level fills and drains. You can check this by starting a Normal cycle and timing how long the fill valve stays open for the first fill. If the dishwasher fills for around 60 seconds, then power is getting to the SIS switch, and power should be coming out of terminal D at drain time when the SIS switch is closed, as long as the fill/drain contact is working correctly in the timer. If there are no low fills as well as no drains other than Cancel/Drain, then the SIS switch is not getting power from the push button assembly, and you need to check the wires between timer terminals 16, 17, 18, 19, and 15 to the corresponding terminals on the push button assembly, as well as the push button assembly itself. Also, have you tried any of the other cycle buttons, such as Rinse and Hold, to see if drains work in those cycles? If not, and you find one or more cycles where the drains do work, then it will help isolate a bad wire/push button between timer and push button assembly.
If you trace the pink wire backwards from the drain valve, you'll see where it goes to both the push button assembly, and where it goes into the timer at terminal D. Notice how it goes to the lower half of a timer contact switch. The other side of that switch goes up to the SIS switch, which is closed for 60 seconds per timer interval. You'll also notice the top half of the timer contact switch heads out of the timer via terminal F and through the dark blue wire to the overflow protection switch, and then through the black wire to the fill valve... this is the path that is taken to do a low level fill, where a long fill is controlled by the timer contact T3 when it is in the up position, as it is in the diagram. Notice that power to the SIS switch is provided by timer contacts 16, 17, 18, 19 or 15, which all come from the push button assembly depending on what button happens to be pressed. But in all cases, if power is getting to the SIS switch from the push button assembly, you should have both low level fills and drains. You can check this by starting a Normal cycle and timing how long the fill valve stays open for the first fill. If the dishwasher fills for around 60 seconds, then power is getting to the SIS switch, and power should be coming out of terminal D at drain time when the SIS switch is closed, as long as the fill/drain contact is working correctly in the timer. If there are no low fills as well as no drains other than Cancel/Drain, then the SIS switch is not getting power from the push button assembly, and you need to check the wires between timer terminals 16, 17, 18, 19, and 15 to the corresponding terminals on the push button assembly, as well as the push button assembly itself. Also, have you tried any of the other cycle buttons, such as Rinse and Hold, to see if drains work in those cycles? If not, and you find one or more cycles where the drains do work, then it will help isolate a bad wire/push button between timer and push button assembly.
Thanks
I'm going thru this circuit by circuit testing cleaning each one from connector to connector. I'll eventually find where this is breaking down. The diagram helped thanks. its easier to read then the one on the door. I've been tracing the common white wire and now that i pulled it i'll be able to check the rest of it. If I can't find any breaks there's only three components that it could be but i won't put anymore money in it until I track down the problem.
I'm going thru this circuit by circuit testing cleaning each one from connector to connector. I'll eventually find where this is breaking down. The diagram helped thanks. its easier to read then the one on the door. I've been tracing the common white wire and now that i pulled it i'll be able to check the rest of it. If I can't find any breaks there's only three components that it could be but i won't put anymore money in it until I track down the problem.
stevet
Well-known member
If it is the program switch
I will gladly send you one to try out and see if you resolve the problem.
I will gladly send you one to try out and see if you resolve the problem.
Thanks for the offer
IF I need any parts to test I'll let you know. Big graduation and family thing going on so I've replaced it temporarily. Now that I have the kd18 in the garage I can take my time with it. I went through what you laid out and everything checks out. I've checked all the circuits through the harness and there are no breaks or bad connections. I used low voltage and measured voltage drop and continuity across every wire,switch, and connection and found nothing wrong. I knew the dispenser wasn't working and like I said I'm not worried about it because I don't use it in this dishwasher. Anyway This one just bugs me and its not a usual event when I can't find a problem like this. All cycles work with the exception of the drain. The timer seems to cycle through in the right order and timing. Its just not getting voltage to the drain valve during any of the cycles. I checked the overfill valve and its doing what its suppose to and it prevents anymore water into the unit. But the timer never sends power to the drain valve unless you push the cancel drain button. The circuit and drain valve are good or the cancel drain wouldn't drain right like it does. There's no clogs or debris in the drain line and the impeller is good. So I end up with dirty soapy water being sprayed all over the dishes which isn't good even thought they look clean. I put a bunch of dishes and glasses in the sink and just ran water on them and they made a nice bubble bath from everything that was rinsed off of them.
When I find out whats wrong I'll post it here. Maybe its just my fat thumbs, but I did this kind of work for over ten years and it paid my way through college and I've never needed a repairman for anything in my house from the furnace to the toaster. So i guess its time to get the BFH out and scare the dickens out of this dishwasher. It will work real well in an apartment I'm refurbishing when I nail this problem down. Sorry for getting off topic a little. I'll keep everyone posted when I find out what is going on with this one.
IF I need any parts to test I'll let you know. Big graduation and family thing going on so I've replaced it temporarily. Now that I have the kd18 in the garage I can take my time with it. I went through what you laid out and everything checks out. I've checked all the circuits through the harness and there are no breaks or bad connections. I used low voltage and measured voltage drop and continuity across every wire,switch, and connection and found nothing wrong. I knew the dispenser wasn't working and like I said I'm not worried about it because I don't use it in this dishwasher. Anyway This one just bugs me and its not a usual event when I can't find a problem like this. All cycles work with the exception of the drain. The timer seems to cycle through in the right order and timing. Its just not getting voltage to the drain valve during any of the cycles. I checked the overfill valve and its doing what its suppose to and it prevents anymore water into the unit. But the timer never sends power to the drain valve unless you push the cancel drain button. The circuit and drain valve are good or the cancel drain wouldn't drain right like it does. There's no clogs or debris in the drain line and the impeller is good. So I end up with dirty soapy water being sprayed all over the dishes which isn't good even thought they look clean. I put a bunch of dishes and glasses in the sink and just ran water on them and they made a nice bubble bath from everything that was rinsed off of them.
When I find out whats wrong I'll post it here. Maybe its just my fat thumbs, but I did this kind of work for over ten years and it paid my way through college and I've never needed a repairman for anything in my house from the furnace to the toaster. So i guess its time to get the BFH out and scare the dickens out of this dishwasher. It will work real well in an apartment I'm refurbishing when I nail this problem down. Sorry for getting off topic a little. I'll keep everyone posted when I find out what is going on with this one.
Here's another test you can try.
Grab a stop watch, latch the dishwasher door, and start timing as soon as you hit the Normal Wash button to start the cycle. Open the dishwasher door somewhere between the 1:37 and 2:33 mark (to be safe, right around the 2 minute mark). During this time period, the dishwasher should be draining from the first prewash. Now, remove all power to the dishwasher, and with a continuity tester, take a reading between terminal D on the timer, and terminals 16, 17, 18, 19, and 15. One or more of these combinations should give you continuity; if not, the timer is the culprit... more specifically, the contact switch to the left of terminal D on the schematic. This is assuming of course that your short fills also work, one of which would be the first fill of the Normal cycle.
Grab a stop watch, latch the dishwasher door, and start timing as soon as you hit the Normal Wash button to start the cycle. Open the dishwasher door somewhere between the 1:37 and 2:33 mark (to be safe, right around the 2 minute mark). During this time period, the dishwasher should be draining from the first prewash. Now, remove all power to the dishwasher, and with a continuity tester, take a reading between terminal D on the timer, and terminals 16, 17, 18, 19, and 15. One or more of these combinations should give you continuity; if not, the timer is the culprit... more specifically, the contact switch to the left of terminal D on the schematic. This is assuming of course that your short fills also work, one of which would be the first fill of the Normal cycle.
BFH hah!
We use the BFH in nursing too for those patients that just WON'T go to sleep!
We use the BFH in nursing too for those patients that just WON'T go to sleep!
It works!
Turned out to be the switch. Now I have a KD-18 superba that I'm now debating whether I'm going to re-install it or not. Thanks for all the help. Pulled the switch and couldn't get connections that I thought i should be getting. Found one and now it works great.
Turned out to be the switch. Now I have a KD-18 superba that I'm now debating whether I'm going to re-install it or not. Thanks for all the help. Pulled the switch and couldn't get connections that I thought i should be getting. Found one and now it works great.
