Norge Heavy Duty 20

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lovemynorge

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Aug 16, 2013
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I own (and use) the only washer/dryer set I ever owned. It is an old Norge Heavy Duty 20 that literally was a Christmas gift from my parents for my first apartment. While it is now an antique (almost 30yrs old), it has been a workhorse and I have refused to replace it for many years because of the basic simplicity of it. No digitals, no bells and whistles. Unfortunately the last week, it has been leaving little greenish
brown spots on my laundry which I cannot get out. It is occuring in the washer (possibly the spin cycle). They appear to be oil? Does anyone have any ideas what this may be? I hate to have to move up to a HE new washer. Judging from the threads I seen posted, these things seem fraught with a myriad of issues.
 
Don't give up on it, I am sure it can be fixed. It sounds like maybe your main seal has given out? I can't really give any more advice, but I am sure someone here can point you in the right direction!
 
Hi

First try pulling off the agitator and see if beneath it is the source of oil problems, leakage around the top of the steel rod post. There's a white plastic round fitting in the top center of the agitator, then under that is a 7/16 or 3/8 nut. Then pull of the agitator, not easy. There are a few O-rings and available seals that fit on the agitator post and under the block on top of the post(removed with an Allen wrench), possibly those are in need of replacement.  I would expect them to be very dirty and grimy, but especially look to see if the oil color/etc seems to match your problem spots. Second, remove the front of the cabinet--2 screws near the floor---and check for oil/water leaks inside the cabinet. Don't expect it to be very clean, but a picture or two posted here may help someone diagnose. Others will have more ideas, but major rebuilds on this machine aren't easy. At all. If you happen to have transmission fluid rising up and working its way into the tub, through a variety of seals and O-rings, that machine ain't in great shape.

 

Others here have more Norge knowledge than I, and I am somewhat(??) stuck in the middle of a 1978 Norge rebuild. From my limited knowledge I can't really guess at the source of your spots.  Watch the outcoming waste water. Is it flowing as fast as you ever remember, or maybe a pump problem and dirty water is straining thru the clothing too much? Are the spots spread all over, or do they match the perforations inside the tub? Matching the perforated holes would tell me pump/discharge problems. Also, are spots and oil residue left inside the tub when you remove the clothes? That is a sign of leaking oil into the water, not a sign of pump problems. I'm just thinking of mine and typing away at you, sorry.

 

I have very much enjoyed 2 years with my Norge, but in tearing it apart and seeing how it was designed in the 50's and never updated, I agree they have some major problems once they reach 30 years of age. But 30 years of use ain't bad, I am not knocking Norge.

 

I will continue to watch this thread and hope you find an easy fix and continue to enjoy your favorite machine. However, if things are beyond your desire or ability to fix, please keep me in mind if you decide to get rid of the machine. Depending on where you are in Ohio, I may be interested in your dead Norge.

 

My picture shows the agitator removed. Mine had old ugly grimy build-up, but not new wet grease. Check yours. My other pics are of a complete teardown, no help to you. So far, darn it, my pics don't show a complete rebuild.

 

I am in Akron, and happy to watch this thread and answer any questions I can, but others will have more knowledge and success with Norges.

And pictures might help us diagnose.

akronman++8-16-2013-12-25-50.jpg
 
I cant figure out why my return posts arent here...maybe a huge time lag. At the risk of being redundant, Ill try again. Mr. Akronman, prior to reading your posts, I already took the front off not to find anything beyond dust. I then removed the agitator and man....greasy looking scum all over the post (dont know the name). From my readings, this is either scummy softner residue (I hope) or oil coming up through the spindle post and leaking directly below the vertically scored thing at the very top of the spindle. If the latter is the case..it sounds like some kind of transmission leakage???? and my machine is kaput (sniff, sniff). At this point I had no choice but to clean the spindle, the inside tube of the agitator, and put my baby back together....and say a prayer. Im running a large tub of hot soapy water and giving it another try. Maybe it is an extremely slow leak..... I guess maybe Ill have the discussion with my husband when he gets home regarding a new washer...man I hate this. It has been such a good washer.
 
DON"T JUNK IT YET

Have a few days patience, someone else may have a better answer. It's a good sign that the inner cabinet is dusty instead of greasy and wet.

Give the various folks who post here a few days, who knows. Transmission leaks are extensive difficult work. Sealing up the agitator post may be much easier and resolve the problem.

 

See if you can get the agitator spline off, that vertical grooved item like in my pic, with a set screw and lots of elbow grease, maybe a gear/pulley remover. Under it are various O-rings and washers, pretty similar to garden hose washers. If oil isn't sprayed around the cabinet interior, then it has to be a SLOW SLOW leak, and sealing the agitator post may make the machine run oil-free for a few more years. There is also a spring enclosed washer, maybe next to impossible to find new, but maybe a short stack of garden hose washers or whatever size it takes will seal you up? I hate to give up on a Norge.

 

Keep coming back here a few days and see if there are better answers, I am not a pro. I am watching to learn, like you.

 

Look carefuly BEFORE YOU REMOVE CLOTHING. Are the oil drips on the clothes straight out from the base of the agitator? That would narrow it down and prove oil is seeping routinely from under that vertical grooved spline, down the inner tube of the agitator and out the underside of the base.

 

As you and your husband check it out, keep in mind that the grooved top is for the agitator, it turns 180 degrees back and forth while washing. The main tub and its tube rising up to barely beneath the vertical grooved block are stationary while washing, then spin 640 RPM for the spin cycle. It's that small amount of space in between that you are trying to seal. Sealing is supposed to be from inside/under the vertical grooved spline.

 

[this post was last edited: 8/16/2013-15:07]
 
NEWS FLASH NEWS FLASH

This item MIGHT be exactly what you need. But I'd hate to tell you to spend $30 and be wrong.

This is the springs/washers/seals for inside/under the grooved agitator spline, where it sits atop the spinning tubs inner tube. Hopefully you can get that grooved spline off and inspect the seals, likely worn to nothing, spring deflated after all these years.

I CANNOT guarantee this will solve your problem. Any pics you can take of your overall machine and console, then open the lid and a picture of the agitator, will help us know your exact style/era of Norge.

This Ebay sale is extremely likely for your machine, and your 30 year old seal/spring system is likely horrid, but I am no pro, just advising from typed paragraphs, no pictures or anythng seen.

 

And you're very likely to need a gear puller to get that spline off the post. But they can be found cheap, auto-parts stores.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...akeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en
akronman++8-16-2013-15-14-39.jpg
 
and

I have found various Norge parts listed as Magic Chef and Admiral on Ebay. Norge designed and built the same machine for a few brands, and a few Ebay sellers I've had luck with know the Magic Chef name better.
 
As soon as you said it was green, my initial thought was that it was fabric softener residue coming through the holes in the spin. Hopefully the hot wash you ran it through will clear it all out.
 
Well, not the fabric softner. ;0(

I ran a hot soapy load after cleaning the spindle. While there wasnt oil on my clothes, when I pulled the agitator, I could see a slight bit of oil starting again on the spindle...so its not fabric softner (as I was hoping). My husband knows a local shop with some old Norge parts and he is gonna try there before ordering online (just more convenient). If they dont have it though, Mr Akronman, that seal is looking good. Thanks so much everyone. I really appreciate it. I just dont think Ill be as happy with a new machine as I am my old one and Im not sure I would have figured out my problem without you. ;0)
 
Mr. Akronman, Im am actually on vacation now, but as soon as I return, Ill see if I can post some pics and determine if the seal is right for my vintage model.
 
Hailiong auntiedeb

Any News on your old Norge? They are too cool to give up on easily. They are also a pain once they get to a certain age, I know.

Wishing you luck, hoping for answers to how you fixed things--

Mark

 
 
Vintage Big Tub Norges

My friend Bob in Cleveland has three of these machines that WORK and they are close to just getting scrapped because he is moving his shop and does not want to take these along. They are available for little or nothing, contact me for contact information.

 

While these interesting machines are great performers when they get old and have serious problems they are one of the most difficult washers to repair. This is because, 1 they DO NOT come apart easily, 2 they will need LOTS of parts to fix them properly and 3 you will be very lucky if you can find even 1/3 of the parts to do the job properly, let alone the expense and difficulty of completing the repairs.

 

If you want to keep a Norge working I would suggest doing what I did, find a low mileage machine without major problems and swap out the major inner tubs,transmission, main bearings and seal assembly.

 

PS to LovingmyNorge, I would bet you would be thrilled with a new Speed Queen TL washer, if I were you and wanted to continue to use a traditional TL washer for the next 20 - 30 years I would buy one soon before this choice is not available, John.
 
sniff sniff...

Well folks, I got back from vacation and my hubby had located a seal (locally) that was supposed to work. It was just marked "33-7806 seal assembly, for use with all transmissions except 33-6181". Everything was going along just fine until today.....then the little black oil spots returned on my load of whites. I pulled the agitator and sure enough, a small amount of oil had trickled down the tube directly beneath the spline. I am sooo sad. I was so sure it was fixed. Im including some pics of spline, control panel and my seal info FYI.

lovemynorge++9-3-2013-21-30-51.jpg
 
Well

Now I'm not sure what to advise, stumped here. Darn. And it's extremely difficult to find any parts list to prove your transmissin is the one that matches your seal. I have yet to find any PN's for mine, I just look for anything marked Norge, Montgomery Wards, Magic Chef, and if it looks like my machine I buy it. The seal you got is the only seal I know of, everything about your machine looks exactly like my 1978 spindle, splined post, etc. I bet your old worn seal looked about exactly like the new one, right? Did you clean the innards of the splined post so the seal seated well? I'm just asking everything I can think of because I am stumped.

 

 What exact year is your Norge? It must be one of the last before they ended production of this old technology.

 

Hopefully someone else here will be able to give better advice. I will be watching to hopefully learn, and thank you for your pics and getting back on this website after vacation.

 

I truly hope all goes well for your continued use of that Norge, I hope my advice proves that, but I must say that if nothing works and you decide on a new machine, I may be interested in your washer. My 1978 is currenlty out of commission, difficult repairs, and maybe various assemblies swapped from one to the other will get one back into working order in my basement. But I'd rather see the correct advice given here, a success story that will get both of us back to that loud Norge wash.
 
year?

Ive been thinking about the year I got my machine. I can only estimate but Im betting it was about December of 1983. I tried looking to see if there was a year on the "Energy Saved" yellow sticker on the front but I couldnt find a date on it. I also no longer have my manual (which is odd considering the packrat I am). As soon as I have time, Ill try to locate a model number, but today is a "rain it pours" day. My water heater is done today too. My husband spent an hour and a half at Home Depot last night (knowing exactly what he wanted when he walked through the door) and spoke with literally 9 people who couldnt locate, order, ring up, or figure "next day installation" on the model they supposedly carry in the store. He came home empty handed and furious. So this morning we are at it again. As soon as that problem is resolved, Ill get back to the machine and see what info I can gather from the insides. I will tell you though, last night he went on ebay and ordered the seal you spoke of so maybe it will work. Looking at your pic, it seemed to be configured (placement order of springs/seals) a little different from the one we bought. If that doesnt work, then I will probably be looking for a new washer. The dryer, still doing well and cranking away assuming I didnt just jinx myself.
 
Well, back at the machine and waiting on the second seal to arrive. For now, removing agitator and cleaning drive shaft between loads seems to be saving my clothes, if not the transmission. Each spin cycle is leaving about a 5in x.4cm drip of oil under the spline. Not sure how long a machine (transmission?) will run losing that kind of oil. Took a shot today to see if it was possible to find someone who even could replace the Norge transmission (and cost). Found one service at approx $3-400, given he could find a transmission. Its looking pretty dire. Of course he asked model number and said it was probably under the lid (all I see is the number 33-7929 printed under the wash instructions inside the lid. Not sure if that is it or not?
 
Norge Transmission etc

The Model # is on the front of the machine near the floor [ peeking through an oval hole punched in the front panel ] or on the top or rear of the control panel, the 33-7929 # is the part # for the lid.

 

The little bit of oil that is leaking will never hurt the transmission in the next 5 years, the real issue is that water is probably leaking into the transmission from the lower seal around where the washer tub is mounted causing the oil to float up and leak out at the top of the agitator post, replacing this top seal will not fix the washer for long.

 

These Norge Built washers are great performers while they last, BUT they are very difficult and expensive to repair if not impossible given the availability of replacement parts.

 

 

AGAIN my friend Bob in Cleveland has 3 working Norges that he will practically give away and if they do not find homes they will be recycled for scrap metal, contact me if anyone needs contact information, John.
 
Too bad the machine in the link below isn't closer to you, presuming with a huge leap of faith that it hasn't worked itself to death.  It has some interesting options you rarely see.

 

Of course the Maytag also shown is light years beyond Norge/Magic Chef in build quality and durability, and would be the preferred machine of the two by most members here.  Hint, hint.

 

Just for kicks, take a look:

http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?48403_18~1
 
Was thinking the sane thing, Ralph,

Till I realized that Aunt Deb lives in Ohio, so Cleveland can't be too far away. Go for it Deb. Can't beat the price.

Hey Mark, maybe you should visit John's friend, and get another Norge while they're hot.
 
Hey guys...thanks, thanks, thanks, for ALL your help. We just received and installed the 2cd seal (the one originally recommended by Akronman) and clearly I should have just taken his advise right from the start and ordered his seal from ebay. My husband said it was larger and just enough to get the job done (so far);0). I have washed 3 loads to date and I have pulled the agitator after every load (just to be safe) and so far no oil beneath the spline after the spin cycle. I will probably continue to pull the agitator for a while yet, but so far, so good. Thanks Mr. Akronman for the locator on the seal. Thanks too for the lead to the other Norges Combo52. Ive been to Cleveland and its about a 5 hr drive from the opposite end of Ohio here. While I thought hard about it, my Mom had offered up her old Maytag if I could wait it out a couple of months till she moved, so we had already nixed the Cleveland trip. We were of the mind that if it was as old as mine, 5hrs was a gamble considering the exchange may very soon lead to the same issue, but I appreciate your effort just the same. I also am heeding your info about the water leaking into the transmission. I decided to just risk it with the new seal, and when it goes Ill just have to bite the bullet and buy something new or grab up my Moms machine as a backup. Once again, thanks to all for your help. Youve been a blessing for sure.
 
Oh, and to RP2813, my Moms donation of the Maytag looks very similar (if not identical) to the Maytag in the link you sent me, lol. Apparently as a family, we were NORGE people (my parents bought me my Norge as a Christmas gift when I first moved away from home). Then, when they discontinued Norge, she bought herself a Maytag and she is still using her old Maytag to this day, ;0).
 

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