Norton not for XP any more.....

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perc-o-prince

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So we're about 2 weeks away from the expiration of our antivirus. I've been looking at replacing it but it seems XP is no longer supported, probably to tie in with MS's dropping of support?

The laptop (daily driver) is Win 7. The desktop (infrequently used) is XP. I'd like to protect both. Is it true that if I buy an older version, like 2013 or 2014 that was compatible with XP, it'll be fine because it'll load then update?

I know some don't like Norton/Symantec, but I've had nothing but good experiences with it.

Thanks in advance,
Chuck
 
Avast user here...

On one XP machine I have still. IIRC, there was a way to keep it running, even today, on Windows 2000 without too much effort, which you could probably do with XP.

Otherwise, there is still ClamWin and ClamSentinel, which can be used in lieu of other solutions.

Personally, anti-virus is just the tip of the iceberg. What it really depends on with any machine is:
- Running a limited or most restricted user-account you can get away with for what you do. Use an administrator account (with another name) and a strong password with numbers, symbols as well as letters to install software or make big changes.
- Broswer: Don't use Internet Explorer (Exploder). Use Firefox, Chrome or Opera. You may wish to install AdBlock, NoScript and Flashblock for peace of mind, as many malicious objects appear in ads or in Java/Flash objects.
- What you Visit: Seriously. Don't visit 3rd-party sites for software. And be very careful with what you click on Google Searches! Keeping things to clean discussion boards is pretty good bet

Another member here, Arbilab, still uses a Windows 98 machine for his internet activities, and hasn't had any trouble. Perhaps he has some good tips to share with us too?
 
I have just finished going around and around with Symantec over this and other issues with Norton.

There is a whole laundry list of problems with Norton Security, which replaced the Anti-Virus product this year.

Problem #1.
If you go to install the Security software on the same day you purchase it, you'll get the message "Invalid Product Code. Contact Symantec." You contact Symantec and they'll tell you that you need to return it to the retailer and get another copy. Do that and you'll have the same problem. What's happening? Well, in all of Symantec's wisdom each box from Norton will tell you it's "Theft Protected". What this means is that when the retailer you buy if from scans the barcode a copy of the barcode is saved for overnight transmittal to Symantec. Symanetec then activates your product code that you enter and it will work. I can't tell you how many hours I spent chasing that wild goose. Eventually I had to wait overnight and it worked just like they said it would. But the Symantec phone agents were just happy to keep returning me back to the retailer again and again with the problem. The retailer (Staples) finally explained to me how it worked.

Problem #2.
On each box of Norton Security it DOES say it will work with Windows XP SP3. And it will, unless it's an AMD processor. Then you will get a message saying that Norton Security will not work with your processor because it can't find the CPU's
SSE2 microcode. I once again contacted Norton Support and they told me to tell the computer owner "Your computer is too old, go out and buy a new one." Really, that was their fix for the problem. Go out an buy a new computer. I explained that the system is used by a 78 year old woman who uses it for e-mail only and she is doing just fine. The Symantec agent persisted, go buy a new computer. I finally asked him is that my only option? And he told me it is the only option at this time, there aren't any other options available. So I asked him if she could just buy a renewal to the current Norton Anti-Virus 2014 she has. He said I could also do that. And that's what we did.She's now protected again and I took Norton Security back to Staples for a full refund. I sent a very hot letter to Symantec letting them know that when I call for support, I expect it. In this case I came up with the answer on my own, with no help from Symantec.

Is there anything free out there anymore? I looked at Avast, AVG, several others and you can get 30 days for free but at the end of that time they all want you to pay for the software. So how do you get free past 30 days? We know a friend of a friend of a friend who came to me with a computer problem and a 1 year old HP laptop. It was loaded with viruses, I removed them all but the poor woman doesn't have two nickels to rub together so no money available for a paid anti-virus program. What can she do for free?

BTW, heard on the news today that Microsoft is giving up on Internet Explorer. With the release of Windows 10 later this year, a new browser from Microsoft will be launched with "added capabilities".
 
 
Avast (and presumably AVG) does have a completely free version.  They try to trick users into installing a trial of the retail/paid version by making the confirmation link for the free version small, nondescript text instead of a LARGE SCREAMING BUTTON.  Avast's free version does require registration (which is good for a year) and again they present a prominent push to confirm the pay/trial, you just have to pay attention and not click it.  I'm running the free version on 9 machines that I look after, a mix of XP, Win7, and Win8.  They also may push pop-up product ads and announcements via the free version but there's an setting for how many seconds the ads display until disappearing, which I set to 2 seconds.  The registration process prompts to create an Avast account log-in but that's *not* necessary for it to work.  I even once registered my aunt's under a wrong e-mail address (accidentally) such that she didn't get the confirmation, and it still worked fine for the year until I did the next renewal with the correct addy.

The Avast link I provided in the post above offers three versions.  The "Essential - Free Antivirus" download choice does not have the "Free 30-day trial" tag on it.
 
Anyway, because of all these problems and a total lack of concern from Symantec I will no longer be using any Symantec products on any of my PC's or give out any recommendations for them anymore. I'm really surprised at myself for running the Norton gauntlet before finally giving up. Most users would not be as patient!
 
Dadoes

I think there is a way to disable most of the advertisements. I no longer get any messages for GrimeFighter and other assorted products they are pushing. Whether or not they offer them, I wouldn't buy them.

Personally, I never went for the Norton bandwagon. Traditionally, it was slow and incredibly useless. A bundled 90-day trial with my last new PC in 2007 failed to pickup on what was apparently a trojan. The AVG Free-Edition of the time picked it up first scan, and it never came back.

Eventually, AVG became too bloated and slow for my liking. It seems that you cannot even completely remove it from your computer, as there are several startup objects still present that continue to run even after uninstallation.
Avast! has become my primary choice, with ClamWin and ClamSentinel on legacy computers and the file server (Server 2003) - since I have protection going through the file system/pc's where those files originate, I feel the system is safe as it is. It doesn't see use as a workstation, and only I ever remote in to check up on everything, or change settings. It also lives behind the NAT and Firewall in my router.
 
If you truly want your PC to be protected...

Consider, taking advice, from a guy (Me)... who's currently pursuing a computer science degree, with plans to work in Computer Security. I'm also in the process of helping write case studies, on banking and sophisticated targeted malware attacks. 

 

 

I do wanna say this though.. 

 

Norton. It's a Symantec Product. It's okay. Although, keep in mind any antivirus software you purchase will do two simple things. 

 

It'll retrieve updates, and it'll scan for viruses that correspond with those updates. This is pretty effective for the *most* part, however it has a huge flaw. 

 

What does it do about a computer virus that's been newly released. Well? Nothing. It's unknown. Invisible to the Virus Scanner. Your antivirus software says it's Clean. And give you a false sense of Confidence as you open files, and browse the web. 

 

Until that Virus, is considered (in the "wild") which in computer security terms, means, thousands, and thousands of PC's, it'll simply sit there, undetected, doing whatever it's programmed to do. 

 

And. Criminals, know this. They have evolved. And they know have the ability to use there specially coded malware, to keep themselves undetected for weeks, if not months. They know, they have plenty of time, after our computers are infected.. to perform malicious attacks. 

 

It's a cat and mouse game. And Keep this in mind... (if you continue on reading, which, I hope you will... :)  ) 

 

 

<span style="text-decoration: underline;">____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________</span>

<span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span>

Now... Growing Up, in this generation. We've seen... a dramatic, slide of focus & motivation, with Online Malware. 

 

It used to be, Hackers, simply wanted to screw and jerk people around. Doing mischievous things, like, deleting files, or, corrupting information. These days however, Criminals could care less about your word documents, and your vacation photos. Now... there fascinated in your <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Online Banking, </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;">and Financial Information.</span> 

 

We are seeing, Malware Attacks, where, something as simple as visiting NBC.com can infect your computer, or opening a email, or playing a game on Facebook. Not opening obviously suspicious files, but, simple everyday things. Their called Browser Exploits, and there a growing problem.  

 

Once your Computer gets hit by this new breed of Malware. You can pretty much kiss all your money, and your credit goodbye. 

 

These sophisticated attacks, interject themselves into your Online Banking, Retirement & Investment Accounts, and Email Accounts. All designed to grab as much information about you, and give it to the criminals. Even more scary is these programs, allow direct access to your machine, so, they can login to say, Bank of America, from your computer and start a Transfer, of everything in your bank account.

 

And the key is, since the transfer is initiated from YOUR computer, guess who Bank of America thinks, started the transfer? 

 

And it's never just the bank account. These new breeds of Malware grab Credit Card numbers as you enter them shopping online. It tries to grab information about your Tax Returns, to automate the process of filing fraudulent tax returns. <span style="text-decoration: underline;">I've even seen these malware attacks, cash in investment accounts, transfer the money to personal checking, and than be transferred out, all in the course of a few days. </span>

 

And... if a Criminal doesn't get all the information they need. Well. They... can add text boxes to web pages as you log-on, asking for your security questions, or credit card information. And you wouldn't even know the difference. It's seamlessly tied into pages. 

 

<span style="text-decoration: underline;">____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________</span>

 

So, what can you do about keeping your Computer and Identity safe from this exact kind of Fraud? For one, I always, always advocate, running and installing Windows Updates. These updates, are security updates issued from Microsoft, designed to patch holes in Windows, so it's harder for your personal computer, to get infected. 

 

Second - I always recommend installing a Antivirus Software. And every few days, clicking the Update Button, manually. Along with, once a week, performing a full system scan. 

 

I personally, have found two products, that tend to catch threats, before they are in the wild. They work, by looking at a Virus, with a "Heuristic" engine, that analyzes how the file runs, and what it does. Both Mcafee & ESET NOD, seem to be superior at catching things.

 

I personally, have found Microsoft Security Essentials, Avira, and AVG. To be generally, very ineffective at blocking unknown threats. This is my personal opinion, from countless hours of testing. Obviously, it's your decision, what you do. I just, wouldn't use the software myself. 

 

Trend Micro, Symantec Norton, & Bitdefender. All, I'd say, are middling performers. You'll definitely see, better protection overall. But, I wouldn't personally recommend them.  Kaspersky, used to offer wonderful performance and I'd recommend it, however, it's fallen behind, in protecting computers from new & emerging threats. 

 

Beyond that though. 

 

I'd additionally suggest, setting up stronger passwords. Americans, typically, aren't so great with this, and end up using things like there pets name, or a kids name or a birth date. Instead, you should try to use complex passwords with upper cases and numbers, with no actual words or phrases. Just, random letters and numbers.

 

And... Not using that same password, at every single website. Because, when one website get's hacked, they suddenly have a password to all your accounts.

 

As for Emails. Be very suspicious of files, you weren't expecting, with file extensions ending in .PDF,  .EXE, .SCR, and .Bat. These files typically are used to distribute or install malware onto your machine.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[this post was last edited: 3/19/2015-04:08]
 
@mich

And What you've posted is *exactly* why I advocated utilties in my post, installed to your browser, to protect against these sorts of problems, where nasty scripts can get the better of us.

Others, if you notice malicious advertisements, make sure you report it to the site's Webmaster.

I'm quite curious about whether or not more modern routers are able to block the sorts of connections you are referring to with NAT and Firewalling technologies installed onto them?
 
@washer111.

I'll say this, Guest Accounts. Used to be a IT Secret, to locking down users, and preventing widespread network infections. It worked well too. However, these new infections, have the ability to install themselves in even the most limited of user rights. They install themselves as a local user, and then install themselves under a admin account during the next system restart. 

 

They are just that sophisticated. They don't need user permissions, they just go at it. It's quite amazing actually, seeing just how well they can override security settings. 

 

Besides.

 

These days. Websites can be hacked, without any knowledge beyond turning a computer on. All you've got to do is go into the underground market, and purchase a program. Click a few things, and done. You've got a ton of websites, to install and serve up your malware. 

 

With that said. 

 

I'm not personally a fan, of any extensions, that block the Flash Player. A lot of programs, and online websites (eBay, Yahoo, and Youtube come to mind) require the addon to be utilized. 

 

Typically things like "noscript" are really, overkill. As they tend to water down your Internet Experience so much, you can't really get anything done.

 

Additionally. 

 

 

I've never seen a firewall, on a home use router, that blocks or controls outgoing traffic. Only incoming traffic. 

 

Basically, once you've managed to infiltrate a PC on a network. You're In. And there's really not anyone to kick you out. The defenses, have already been knocked down. The network firewall, isn't going to stop your information from seeping out. 

 

We are starting to see, network appliances however. That do, tend to *detect* information that seems, odd, and notify IT Admins, but, those probably won't ever be available to home users. Just Corporate & Large Scale Businesses.

 

 

 

 
 
I just have to ask..

If this appeared as you were logging in would you comply? Or just close out the page? It's the same website you've always logged into, and it has the same green security bar, same web address. Certainly doesn't seem out of the ordinary does it?  

mich-2015031904495308183_1.png
 
If I recall correctly (it's been a long time)

Bank of America, asked for my social for signing up for Online Banking. (I can't recall any other time, it's been needed though) But still, 9/10 People would fill in that form, without a second thought. 

 

It's really a lazy way of collecting information (malware wise). I mean... there's other ways to collect it. But, this seems to me a popular way. Most people don't give it a second thought, because, they don't see anything different about it. They logged in, and do what's asked. It's my bank, why should I question it. 

 

<span style="text-decoration: underline;">To be fair. If it only asked me for, one of those, I'd probably fill it in, without a second thought, too.</span>
 
Yes I'm running the original factory install of W98 with no AV and never had a problem. Not that they didn't try, but in the 98 days they weren't very sophisticated and since they GOT sophisticated they ignored W98.

No, I can't do any Adobe-- Flash/PDF-- which I consider viruses themselves because they're so pervasive and so ridden with security lapses And they nag you to update without checking if you're compatible AND if you click incompatible content you may have to pull the plug to restart AANNDD if you manage to install an incompatible version you probably have to rewrite your entire harddrive.

Let's face it, if these desperados (almost entirely Russia and China) can hack DOD and any retail/credit source they choose, they can hack you irregardless (sic) what off-shelf security you can choose. Can't say how bulletproof but Zone Alarm firewall prohibits installed software from outgoing internet without user permission. But then that's probably hackable too.

Betting Peter Norton wakes up screaming "why did I sell my name to Symantec?". They have produced some real hogware/nagware. In 'fairness', one version of Zone Alarm was hogware too. Try completely deleting preinstalled Symantec or McAfee.

When people say "I've got blahblah antivirus and never had a problem" it's most likely because they were never THREATENED with a problem, not that the A-V prevented it. As in reply #9, it takes at least 3 business days for a new (non-derivative) virus to be identified and added to the subscribed ident files. During those 3 days, no matter WHAT you have you're as nekkid as the day you were born.

Take nominal precautions. Don't reveal more than you have to at any one time. Don't use "password" as your password. For system integrity, retain an updated offline ghost of your OS file structure to replace if it becomes compromised. And while I'm almost certain their claims are exaggerated, consider subscribing to a security service. At the very least it should fastforward recovery should your data/identity become compromised.
 
3 Business Days...

I'd say more like, a week atleast. And that's if you're really lucky. I've submitted, and malware samples, to antivirus companies, and still found stuff, undetected 6 months later. 

 

Some software, like <span style="text-decoration: underline;">ESET</span>, however, *can* flag a file, it things acts like a virus. I've seen a lot of success in what we call Zero day malware. Malware that is new.. and hasn't been flagged.

 

As for Windows 98, it self. You're kidding yourself, if you think using a older operating system makes you secure. Not all *but* I'd say atleast 1/3 of the current threats could run under 98 and 9x Legacy systems. 

 

Not that any Botnet Master would want a 9x System. But... the malware would still run. 

 

<hr />
 

<span style="text-decoration: underline;">One has got to keep in mind, the whole point is to keep them out in the first place.</span> Not play *cleanup* later.

 

Once there in, your pretty much screwed. But, if you have an effective anti-virus solution, that can detect files that act malicious, you can considerably lessen your chances of Disaster. Instead of being a sitting duck, a easy target. 

 

 
 
Another thought....

A friend of mine is a retired Bell Labs engineer that helped develop the first ESS exchanges and develop the AMPS cell phone network in Chicago..let's just say he knows his stuff. I was surprised when I visited him a couple years ago in that there were two identical Macbooks in the living room. One for him, one for his wife. Electrical tape over the webcams, of course ; )

I asked what this was about, knowing he was a PC guy and had lots of PC-specific software. What he said made good sense. For surfing the web or using email, he used the entry level Macbook. If he wanted to run CAD or do analysis, it was the (offline) PC. No more antivirus software, yearly subscriptions, dealing with bloatware, re-installs or even the annual trip to the computer doctor. All the headaches and expense went away. Emails could be opened without a second thought and no more worries about clicking on suspicious websites.

We've reached the point where a browser on one platform works pretty similarly on another platform, and mastering the email program wasn't difficult. So no learning curve involved and his PC stayed safe. Plus he could now run software for both platforms and since one was a laptop and the other a desktop, he had more flexibility, too.
 

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