Now that phosphates are gone in dishwasher detergents

[retro-man]

Since the removal of phosphates in dishwashing detergents, would it be safe to assume that now it would be ok to put china in the dishwasher and not have the glazing come off? We have not been using our china since it was purchased many years ago. I have come around to start using it. If we don't who will. The only thing is it is going to go in the dishwasher. I am not going to start washing dishes by hand again. My feeling is I can buy cheap stuff at khols or sears kmart and run these through a 100 times and they still look new, but this stuff that costs $150.00 per place setting is so delicate that it can't take machine washing? Time to use the good stuff on a daily basis. Just curious on your input on this.
Thanks
Jon

 

[henry200]

The rule about fine china as I have always understood it is that if the decoration is under the glaze and there is no platinum or gold banding then the china is dishwasher safe.  I have put been putting fine china in the dishwasher for many years (as did my mother) with no ill effects.  I don't think phosphates were ever the issue anyway but rather the highly caustic alkaline compounds and/or chlorine which would errode metallic decorations and fade over-glaze colors.

 

Neil

 

[tomturbomatic]

Lenox China told us when I was working in a department store that the gold was safe IF you allowed the dishes to cool in the machine before handling them. The gold gets soft with the heat and people thinking they were being gentle with the china by hand drying it were actually rubbing the gold off.

I would think that the lack of phosphates and the resulting mineral buildup would do more to damage the looks than the phosphated detergent. Well-glazed china, like Neil stated above, is not damaged by dishwasher washing, especially when the china is washed in loads without pans and utensils which need more washing than the china & crystal which usually cleans up nicely with a shorter cycle. The delicate cycle on my KDS18 skips the first two pre rinses used to help heat up the machine. It starts with the first prewash but instructs the user not to add detergent to this. After the warm rinse soaks the soil, the main wash is shortened to just 4 minutes. This limits the exposure of the load to the detergent and also helps keep the temperature down. More great thinking from when Hobart cared about dishware and cleaning instead of energy ratings.

 

[dj-gabriele]

I wouldn't dare to use the dishwasher for gold/silver painted china or silverware or glassware.

But if your dishes are fire glazed over the pattern they probably are all right but even then I wouldn't ever try a cycle longer than one hour or hotter than 40°C.

Especially for stuff costing that much

 

[jerrod6]

If the china is glazed I think it would be OK as long as you use a china/crystal cycle with low water temperature and shorter wash times.  One thing to remember is that even though they don't have phosphates the detergents now contain enzymes to dissolve and eat the soil which may prove to be a larger problem than phosphates.

 

 

 

 

 

[retro-man]

Thanks for your input everyone. It is Christian Dior china. Yes it has a gold edge along the outer rim of all the dishes. It seems that the glazing does cover the entire plate. Will start using them soon and give it a try.
Jon

 

[kqkenmore]

the old Cascade use to be approved for use on fine china and that was the one that had phosphates and chlorine bleach.

 

[circlew]

I would try using one piece of the china on a regular basis for a couple of months, washing it in the machine. After that time, compare it to a piece that has not gone through the dishwasher. If no change has occured, then it should be safe to put in the machine.

 

[jerrod6]

I like cirlleW's advice....If it is gonna get damaged no sense ruining the entire set.  

 

[retro-man]

I forgot to mention that I have 3 Lenox serving platters white with gold around the edge. I started putting these in the dishwasher about 3 years ago on a regular basis. They probably have been washed about 50 times and no visible sign of wear on them. So I guess its a go and the others are going to through the dishwasher.
Jon

 

[chris74]

Phosphate-free

Over here, phosphate-free dishwasher detergent is very unusual. I know of only one brand which offers it and the results are terrible because it is an all-in-one product and the salt surrogate is not working perfectly IMHO.

Enzymes have been in the powder and/or the tablets for a long time now.

Chlorine bleach is not at all found neither in dishwasher products nor washing detergents.

The phosphates in the washing powder have been banned in the mid-1980ies here...