supersurgilator
Well-known member
I was just wondering what your thoughts are about the gulf oil spill? Do events like this make you wonder why it is so important for us to be responsible about our oil disposal, and then this happens?
Oil Spill
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whirlcool
Well-known member
I found it highly irresponsible of BP to have a deep well like that and not have a blow out protection system on it. BP over the past few years has had quite a bit of trouble with their refineries exploding, rigs leaking, etc. When investigated, it usually comes down to BP trying to cut corners on safety to reduce cost.
When their Texas City refinery exploded a few years ago and killed a few people(contractors, of course) the investigation turned up "acceptable loss" studies done by the company.
They just don't care.
When their Texas City refinery exploded a few years ago and killed a few people(contractors, of course) the investigation turned up "acceptable loss" studies done by the company.
They just don't care.
I would say it puts the quietus on the argument that private industry is the cure all for our nation's problems and that only the governments are f**king up things. I have not heard any braying from that "Drill, baby, drill" crowd since this happened, the Florida contingent of which is catching hell in Florida newspapers. BP is trying to blame the disaster on the work done on the well head by Halliburton, so the usual cast of corporate players is in place.
I am not saying undersea drilling cannot be done safely; it just can't be done without non-corrupt inspectors forcing the corporations involved to abide by the most stringent and up to date technology and safety rules, sorta like coal mining and you see where that is because of corruption on both sides. Since no realistic plans were put in place for a disaster of this magnitude, the well could gush for 90 days before being brought under control. Experts liken the force of the pressure to that of a volcano. There goes the economy of the Gulf coast as well as Florida's East coast, both the fisheries and the tourist industries and not for just a brief time, but for years. Sea turtles and other marine life will die as far North as the current carries the oil. Along most of the East coast, the Gulf Stream flows close enough to the coast for surface winds to blow any oil ashore.
I firmly believe we have to move away from fossil-based fuels as much and as quickly as possible. As usual, other nations are moving ahead of us because our vested interests want to keep milking money out of the established energy infrastructure. Studies have shown that a great deal of the East coast's power demands could be supplied by water-powered turbines placed on the ocean floor in the path of the Gulf Stream. Of course, it will take a lot of money to bring these ideas to market, but it could be wonderful if it really works. Unlike wind power, the Gulf Stream is a constant flow, at least until the thermohaline current in the North Atlantic shuts down due to excess ice melting. A lot of Florida's electricity is generated by oil, some by gas and some by nuclear reactor. Anything we can do to cut our oil use will result in less money going to those who seek to kill us, whether through Jihad or destruction of our habitat. I think that has to be instilled into the American psyche before we will break the bonds holding our national energy policy hostage to the energy conglomerates.[this post was last edited: 5/2/2010-14:29]
I am not saying undersea drilling cannot be done safely; it just can't be done without non-corrupt inspectors forcing the corporations involved to abide by the most stringent and up to date technology and safety rules, sorta like coal mining and you see where that is because of corruption on both sides. Since no realistic plans were put in place for a disaster of this magnitude, the well could gush for 90 days before being brought under control. Experts liken the force of the pressure to that of a volcano. There goes the economy of the Gulf coast as well as Florida's East coast, both the fisheries and the tourist industries and not for just a brief time, but for years. Sea turtles and other marine life will die as far North as the current carries the oil. Along most of the East coast, the Gulf Stream flows close enough to the coast for surface winds to blow any oil ashore.
I firmly believe we have to move away from fossil-based fuels as much and as quickly as possible. As usual, other nations are moving ahead of us because our vested interests want to keep milking money out of the established energy infrastructure. Studies have shown that a great deal of the East coast's power demands could be supplied by water-powered turbines placed on the ocean floor in the path of the Gulf Stream. Of course, it will take a lot of money to bring these ideas to market, but it could be wonderful if it really works. Unlike wind power, the Gulf Stream is a constant flow, at least until the thermohaline current in the North Atlantic shuts down due to excess ice melting. A lot of Florida's electricity is generated by oil, some by gas and some by nuclear reactor. Anything we can do to cut our oil use will result in less money going to those who seek to kill us, whether through Jihad or destruction of our habitat. I think that has to be instilled into the American psyche before we will break the bonds holding our national energy policy hostage to the energy conglomerates.[this post was last edited: 5/2/2010-14:29]
All super thoughts,
How about we move this one over to the ongoing thread, I'd love to add my .02€ while it's still worth something...
Robert did ask ('cause I upset some of the, er, um, members) that we limit ourselves to one thread on politics at a time until he got the new forums up?
How about we move this one over to the ongoing thread, I'd love to add my .02€ while it's still worth something...
Robert did ask ('cause I upset some of the, er, um, members) that we limit ourselves to one thread on politics at a time until he got the new forums up?
I'm not a conspiracy theorist type, but I find it awfully fishy that Obama approved exploration drilling and then this happens. Too coincidental to me.
I very much doubt there's any connection between Obama's approval of more offshore drilling and this disaster. Just very bad timing.
On the tech side, there IS a blow-out preventer on the well, but the BP chairman is now saying that it failed. He didn't mention that another type of preventer, the acoustically activated type, which is required on North Sea oil platforms, isn't required over here, and it MIGHT have prevented this spill.
The current plan is to lower a giant concrete dome on top of the leaking well and hope that it shuts off the flow. It will be at least another week before that can happen, and I really wonder if it will work anyway. I gather that it is being manufactured (poured) as we speak. Makes me wonder why one wasn't already made up and ready just in case of such an event.
In any case this looks like it will be a major ecological disaster that will be remembered for a very long time.
Another tidbit - I recall reading a year or two ago that researcher have found that oil contaminating Prince William Sound from the Exxon Valdez disaster some 30 years ago is still present in the shore. It's just gone a few feet deeper than they were previously looking. Perhaps the warmer waters of the Gulf will encourage quicker bacterial decay of the Deep Sea Horizon spill - but it will still take years to clean this one up. Assuming that well 5,000 feet down will ever stop spewing crude.
On the tech side, there IS a blow-out preventer on the well, but the BP chairman is now saying that it failed. He didn't mention that another type of preventer, the acoustically activated type, which is required on North Sea oil platforms, isn't required over here, and it MIGHT have prevented this spill.
The current plan is to lower a giant concrete dome on top of the leaking well and hope that it shuts off the flow. It will be at least another week before that can happen, and I really wonder if it will work anyway. I gather that it is being manufactured (poured) as we speak. Makes me wonder why one wasn't already made up and ready just in case of such an event.
In any case this looks like it will be a major ecological disaster that will be remembered for a very long time.
Another tidbit - I recall reading a year or two ago that researcher have found that oil contaminating Prince William Sound from the Exxon Valdez disaster some 30 years ago is still present in the shore. It's just gone a few feet deeper than they were previously looking. Perhaps the warmer waters of the Gulf will encourage quicker bacterial decay of the Deep Sea Horizon spill - but it will still take years to clean this one up. Assuming that well 5,000 feet down will ever stop spewing crude.
In Brazil, drilling off the coast requires use of a double safety valve, like the fill valve on old KA builtin dishwashers. If one fails, there is a backup. But our cowboy style of doing things and letting the oil industry dictate its own rules did not make them use the equipment that guarantees the highest level of safety in an area that supplies a huge amount of seafood and that shelters a great number of migratory birds; see my earlier post on corruption. Those of you who eat shrimp will be paying through the nose for it in years to come. Crude oil is very toxic, even before you get to the ways it cuts off oxygen to water dwellers. I hope BP and others have to dig so deep to pay for what they have done that they split the bottom seam in their pockets. If, G-d Forbid there is a storm in the Gulf that produces any storm surge, this oil will be carried far inland.
On Friday, someone said on the news that the dome referenced earlier will have to be suspended over the well and collect the oil and water which will be suctioned to the surface and sent somewhere for processing. The force of the gushing oil is too great to permit the dome to sit on the ocean bottom.
On Friday, someone said on the news that the dome referenced earlier will have to be suspended over the well and collect the oil and water which will be suctioned to the surface and sent somewhere for processing. The force of the gushing oil is too great to permit the dome to sit on the ocean bottom.
Bush #43
This was caused by the Bush #43 administration loosening the standards. No, it was not Obama.
We need to be checking every single project which could have serious consequences if it went south which was approved under Bush #43.
I feel terribly bad about the environmental damage. I feel very bad for the little people who are hurt by this.
I do hope it costs Haliburton (name ring any bells?) and BP executives as well as the jerks who authorized this under Busch#43 real jail time.
For all the climate change doubters and "drill baby drill" folks, it wouldn't bother me a bit if Republicans took a major economic hit because of this. They deserve it.
This was caused by the Bush #43 administration loosening the standards. No, it was not Obama.
We need to be checking every single project which could have serious consequences if it went south which was approved under Bush #43.
I feel terribly bad about the environmental damage. I feel very bad for the little people who are hurt by this.
I do hope it costs Haliburton (name ring any bells?) and BP executives as well as the jerks who authorized this under Busch#43 real jail time.
For all the climate change doubters and "drill baby drill" folks, it wouldn't bother me a bit if Republicans took a major economic hit because of this. They deserve it.
Oh, sure, that's true.
What will happen is what always happens:
When times are good for the business world, they are all capitalists. When times go bad, they are socialists by the book.
Their motto is: Private profit, socialized risk.
This is why I want to see stiff prison sentences. Really nasty, long ones - and not in some luxury country-club for white-collar criminals but in some Texas dungeon or Louisiana hot-house or Alabama chain-gang. Somewhere where the boys will enjoy some fresh meat.
I do not and have never understood why protecting our environment is somehow a "liberal" and a "unChristian" activity for so many people. Where the hell do they think we are going to go if we mess this biosphere up? The earth doesn't need us, but we surely need her.
Mother Nature, red of tooth and claw, never forgives and never forgets.
At a minimum, the US needs to come up to third-world standards for oil-drilling and coal mining.
What will happen is what always happens:
When times are good for the business world, they are all capitalists. When times go bad, they are socialists by the book.
Their motto is: Private profit, socialized risk.
This is why I want to see stiff prison sentences. Really nasty, long ones - and not in some luxury country-club for white-collar criminals but in some Texas dungeon or Louisiana hot-house or Alabama chain-gang. Somewhere where the boys will enjoy some fresh meat.
I do not and have never understood why protecting our environment is somehow a "liberal" and a "unChristian" activity for so many people. Where the hell do they think we are going to go if we mess this biosphere up? The earth doesn't need us, but we surely need her.
Mother Nature, red of tooth and claw, never forgives and never forgets.
At a minimum, the US needs to come up to third-world standards for oil-drilling and coal mining.
Particularly since...
it was Teddy Roosevelt, who could NOT under ANY circumstances be called a leftie, who started things like the national parks system.
Why? So there were hunting preserves of course.
I'm pretty right wing by comparison to you guys and an avid CONSERVATIONIST - I am NOT an environmentalist because environmentalists, in my opinion, don't love nature, they merely hate humans.
it was Teddy Roosevelt, who could NOT under ANY circumstances be called a leftie, who started things like the national parks system.
Why? So there were hunting preserves of course.
I'm pretty right wing by comparison to you guys and an avid CONSERVATIONIST - I am NOT an environmentalist because environmentalists, in my opinion, don't love nature, they merely hate humans.
Well I Don't Know About The Poltics Of It
But this thing couldn't have happened at a worse time for fishermen and such along the Gulf Coast.
It is prime shrimp and crayfish season, should this oil start heading into those areas that is that. The market will be dead as no one will touch the stuff regardless of how many say it's "safe" to eat.
For some the fishing season is all they know and how they make enough money to live the rest of the year. Not to mention all the restaurants and such that make their money on seafood dishes. Oh and don't forget how popular a "boil" is during the season.
Obama and or Congress better dig deep to arrange some sort of payouts, and deal with BP later.
But this thing couldn't have happened at a worse time for fishermen and such along the Gulf Coast.
It is prime shrimp and crayfish season, should this oil start heading into those areas that is that. The market will be dead as no one will touch the stuff regardless of how many say it's "safe" to eat.
For some the fishing season is all they know and how they make enough money to live the rest of the year. Not to mention all the restaurants and such that make their money on seafood dishes. Oh and don't forget how popular a "boil" is during the season.
Obama and or Congress better dig deep to arrange some sort of payouts, and deal with BP later.
Launderess, i agree with you, no seafood/tourism, commercial and sport fishing, slowing of petro tech in a recovering recession, would be a horrible fate for the entire gulf coast. I am very worried for friends and family. Did anyone watch "Meet the press" the Coast Guard official stated "product is still leaking around the well head" he just could not bring himself to say Crude OIL. The estimates of leaking oil were much lower the first week than what is being reported now, IMHO, to disguise actual profit of what has been pumping since placement of the drilling rig. Hurricane season starts when the gulf water is 80 degrees. I do not even want to think about what could happen with a tropical storm or hurricane. alr2903
brettsomers
Well-known member
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Funny how politics fetishists are using this horrible disaster to start trouble. We should all be worried about getting this flow stopped as quickly as human means can contrive. And making sure that the corporations responsible for this tragedy pay.
This is no time for Republican vs Democrat trifling!
This is no time for Republican vs Democrat trifling!
Well, Brett,
BP just was warned by the Attorney General of the United States that the non-discloser, no-sue contracts they were signing with small fishers - $5,000 upfront, nothing more, ever and no right to sue for any further damages - will not stand in court.
I hate to say it, but this is very much political. The Republicans let them get away without even using systems which even third world countries require.
Republicans mismanaged Katrina because it primarily affected Negroes.
We have every right to demand that the Democrats do a better job here.
We have absolutely no reason to believe that the Republicans would change a thing in their "drill, baby, drill" approach to destroying our environment.
On the contrary, the public needs to know exactly who caused this - lax Republican oversight - and they very much need to see whether or not the Democrats can do a better job of fixing it.
BP just was warned by the Attorney General of the United States that the non-discloser, no-sue contracts they were signing with small fishers - $5,000 upfront, nothing more, ever and no right to sue for any further damages - will not stand in court.
I hate to say it, but this is very much political. The Republicans let them get away without even using systems which even third world countries require.
Republicans mismanaged Katrina because it primarily affected Negroes.
We have every right to demand that the Democrats do a better job here.
We have absolutely no reason to believe that the Republicans would change a thing in their "drill, baby, drill" approach to destroying our environment.
On the contrary, the public needs to know exactly who caused this - lax Republican oversight - and they very much need to see whether or not the Democrats can do a better job of fixing it.
It's just amazes me that we still want the big Ole company do the same self governing and thinking that what's best without a care about the safety of the masses.
How much more is needed to get the big picture that smaller gov. will work?
It just doesn't!
Anyway this is a tragedy that this had to happen without a masterplan to kill the leak and Hurricane season soon to begin around June, do you think this crude is going to stay in the pan handle?
How much more is needed to get the big picture that smaller gov. will work?
It just doesn't!
Anyway this is a tragedy that this had to happen without a masterplan to kill the leak and Hurricane season soon to begin around June, do you think this crude is going to stay in the pan handle?
I read over the weekend that this is prime hatching season for shrimp, as well as birds. The young shrimp move to the top of the water to become part of the plankton. Unfortunately, the top of the water now has oil instead of beneficial plankton so the shrimp will be killed. Those that survive will be filled with toxins. I would not put it past the food industry to market the seafood from the Gulf as having the "Butterball Basting Secret"; they will cook in their own oil. Just heat them and and fry away without adding any oil.
I am appreciating the silence from the "Drill baby, drill." crowd.
Let's pray nothing like this happens when the next nuclear power plant is put in operation. Not that I trust T. Boone Pickens, but the man has the right idea about converting trucks and busses to compressed natural gas to reduce our need for oil WHILE doing all we can to find alternative energy sources for our nation. Spending dollars for petroleum to enrich people who hate us is not smart and that does not only apply to those outside this country. The vested energy interests here will stop at nothing to keep us addicted to the fossil fuels we currently use. Who do you think blocks all alternative energy initiatives?
I am appreciating the silence from the "Drill baby, drill." crowd.
Let's pray nothing like this happens when the next nuclear power plant is put in operation. Not that I trust T. Boone Pickens, but the man has the right idea about converting trucks and busses to compressed natural gas to reduce our need for oil WHILE doing all we can to find alternative energy sources for our nation. Spending dollars for petroleum to enrich people who hate us is not smart and that does not only apply to those outside this country. The vested energy interests here will stop at nothing to keep us addicted to the fossil fuels we currently use. Who do you think blocks all alternative energy initiatives?
