Old Belt Drive ,Standard Direct Drive and New VMW Washers
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lordkenmore
Well-known member
I've only used the old BD (Belt Drive) and DD (Direct Drivie) designs.
In operation, the big differences I note:
-During agitation, BD tends to make "woo woo" sound, DD makes a "chugga chugga" sound.
-BD machines don't pause the motor as much. At the end of wash/deep rinse, the motor stays running, and the machine immediately goes into drain, then from drain goes immediately to spin. DD pauses after wash/deep rinse. Then starts the drain. On my current specimen, there is another pause after drain, then it goes into spin.
-Agitation is gentler in a BD, much sharper/more abrupt looking in a DD.
-BD I remember would do multiple spray rinses. It seems like that vanished in the direct drive era.
-DD is far more likely to destroy/wear clothing, at least from hearsay. My limited experience suggests that there is truth to this allegation.
-BD had for a period pretty washer colors like turquoise.
In operation, the big differences I note:
-During agitation, BD tends to make "woo woo" sound, DD makes a "chugga chugga" sound.
-BD machines don't pause the motor as much. At the end of wash/deep rinse, the motor stays running, and the machine immediately goes into drain, then from drain goes immediately to spin. DD pauses after wash/deep rinse. Then starts the drain. On my current specimen, there is another pause after drain, then it goes into spin.
-Agitation is gentler in a BD, much sharper/more abrupt looking in a DD.
-BD I remember would do multiple spray rinses. It seems like that vanished in the direct drive era.
-DD is far more likely to destroy/wear clothing, at least from hearsay. My limited experience suggests that there is truth to this allegation.
-BD had for a period pretty washer colors like turquoise.
Large mechanical differences.
(Hopefully this info is valid.)
Vintage belt drive does not use a reversing motor. Most models through the years utilized a recirculating lint filter, either manual clean or self-cleaning. The spin safety lid switch disengaged spin via the wigwag but did not shut off the drive motor or timer. The pump is driven mechanically by the belt. Majority of the machines through the years had a porcelain outer tub (there was an experimentation with plastic). The tub & transmission & motor mounted to a baseplate which was suspended from three support rods anchored at top of the cabinet. Service access was through a small rear panel, from beneath the machine, and by raising the cabinet top.
Direct drive motor reverses for agitation vs. spin & drain (which is the reason for the pauses). A recirculating lint filter was never utilized but a couple models did recirculate for other functions (Resource Saver for rinsing and Catalyst for detergent treatment). Early models did a spin-drain. The lid switch did shut off the drive motor & timer during spin (& drain). The pump is driven mechanically by direct attachment to one of the motor's two shafts. All models had plastic outer tubs. The tub sat atop a pedestal and anchored with springs, the transmission mounted beneath, and the motor mounted to the transmission. The outer cabinet (top/front/sides as a unit) removed for service access, with the transmission removable from beneath.
VMW units are belt drive. The motor reverses forward and back continually during agitation. Pulsing the power current varies the speed. The motor reversing provides oscillating action to the agitator, not the transmission as with the other two designs. The transmission is a planetary gear mechanism and functions for agitation RPM reduction and torque increase. The agitator (or impeller) is always driven when the motor & transmission pulley rotate. A splutch (spring-clutch) mechanism operated by a shift actuator (which also functions as a speed sensor) engages/disengages basket spin from drive teeth on the transmission pulley. There is no spin brake (BD and DD do have a brake). The lid locks during spin (the entire cycle on early models but I understand that was changed later?). The pump is a separate electric unit from the main drive motor. The tub is suspended via four rods anchored at the four corners of the cabinet. The motor, transmission, & pump mount to bottom of the tub. Service is by raising the top and from beneath.
norgeway
Well-known member
The main difference!!
IMHO ..of course is the belt drive washes....the DD THRASHES!!! the DD tub is awkward because its deep and narrow,the belt drive is to my mind the best all around washer ever.
IMHO ..of course is the belt drive washes....the DD THRASHES!!! the DD tub is awkward because its deep and narrow,the belt drive is to my mind the best all around washer ever.
twintubber
Well-known member
Thanks norgeway
"the DD tub is awkward because its deep and narrow"
That is definitely ONE of the main reasons DD's were terrible machines.
The best though is:
"of course is the belt drive washes....the DD THRASHES!!!"
Also as mentioned in an earlier reply:
"Agitation is gentler in a BD, much sharper/more abrupt looking in a DD".
AND
"BD I remember would do multiple spray rinses. It seems like that vanished in the direct drive era".
All true.
And just SOME of the reasons why DD's absolutely SUCK!!!!!
The second worse top-loader I have ever seen, used or known of.
Glad to see there are others who have noticed the difference and how pathetic DD's truly are.
Avoid them at all costs!!!
"the DD tub is awkward because its deep and narrow"
That is definitely ONE of the main reasons DD's were terrible machines.
The best though is:
"of course is the belt drive washes....the DD THRASHES!!!"
Also as mentioned in an earlier reply:
"Agitation is gentler in a BD, much sharper/more abrupt looking in a DD".
AND
"BD I remember would do multiple spray rinses. It seems like that vanished in the direct drive era".
All true.
And just SOME of the reasons why DD's absolutely SUCK!!!!!
The second worse top-loader I have ever seen, used or known of.
Glad to see there are others who have noticed the difference and how pathetic DD's truly are.
Avoid them at all costs!!!
arbilab
Well-known member
If you're used to servicing legacy Maytags, get your thesaurus of obscenities out when you have to change the belt on a wigwag.
The DDs are nicknamed "shredmore". I wonder why?
The DDs are nicknamed "shredmore". I wonder why?
lordkenmore
Well-known member
>If you're used to servicing legacy Maytags, get your thesaurus of obscenities out when you have to change the belt on a wigwag.
I remember looking into trying that once, and frankly felt overwhelmed by the prospect, as I studied the washer in question.
A neighbor did the property maintenance here on this property when I first lived here. He was pretty good with mechanical stuff--even did his own work on his cars once. One time he was called to change a Kenmore belt, and it was apparently a total nightmare. He ended up putting the washer on its back IIRC to get at the belt...and ended up losing a huge amount of oil. So much oil that I think they ended up discarding the machine. (That is, the machine was dumped, although no idea whether it failed due to loss of oil, they decided "we won't bother trying", or some other problem cropped up.) When I was having trouble with a Kenmore, he came, took one look, and basically said: "One of those wig wag monsters!"
I remember looking into trying that once, and frankly felt overwhelmed by the prospect, as I studied the washer in question.
A neighbor did the property maintenance here on this property when I first lived here. He was pretty good with mechanical stuff--even did his own work on his cars once. One time he was called to change a Kenmore belt, and it was apparently a total nightmare. He ended up putting the washer on its back IIRC to get at the belt...and ended up losing a huge amount of oil. So much oil that I think they ended up discarding the machine. (That is, the machine was dumped, although no idea whether it failed due to loss of oil, they decided "we won't bother trying", or some other problem cropped up.) When I was having trouble with a Kenmore, he came, took one look, and basically said: "One of those wig wag monsters!"
It's a challenge and takes some time but is doable once the procedure is understood and one has gone through it a time or two.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
I have to admit I have very mixed feelings about those BD machines. I have a certain weakness for them (it is not an accident that my name here is Lord KENMORE...and no, I'm not referring to Kenmore stoves, refrigerators, freezers, or dryers). When I first lived here, there was an old BD Kenmore, and it was fun having it around and "experiencing" the Kenmore washer experience again. (Funny thing, but I'd used a BD Whirlpool a year or so previously at the place I lived then, and yet it didn't evoke that same sense, even though the basic system was the same.)
Sometimes, I think I'd like to own my own BD machine.
BUT...I have real concerns about the difficulty of servicing those machines. As I mentioned above, I once looked at doing a belt change, and frankly found the prospect overwhelming: it's almost as if Whirlpool went out of their way to make it as hard as possible to change that dratted belt. I am also not impressed by the difficulty of getting inside to work on the machines--that access panel seems like it would be "enough" until you actually have it off, and are staring into the inner workings of the washer.
As someone with limited repair experience, and limited confidence, I honestly have to wonder if I'd be able to do much if something went wrong on my own machine. I have to wonder how much it would cost to get someone to do what I can't do.
Meanwhile, there are a lot of things I don't like about DD machines. Some is personal--I used a DD machine during a period I'd like to forget. They are not as good as BD for washing ability. Then there is that whole Shredmore thing. I can't chime in on that definitively at this point from my own experience, but so many AW.org people have had trouble that I have to say there must be some issue. AW.org are not laundry idiots--they are NOT people who will stuff the tub so completely that the only way to close the lid on the washer is weighting down with a concrete block. BUT...these flaws to one side, one thing that does seem appealing is that it appears that servicing is easier.
Sometimes, I think I'd like to own my own BD machine.
BUT...I have real concerns about the difficulty of servicing those machines. As I mentioned above, I once looked at doing a belt change, and frankly found the prospect overwhelming: it's almost as if Whirlpool went out of their way to make it as hard as possible to change that dratted belt. I am also not impressed by the difficulty of getting inside to work on the machines--that access panel seems like it would be "enough" until you actually have it off, and are staring into the inner workings of the washer.
As someone with limited repair experience, and limited confidence, I honestly have to wonder if I'd be able to do much if something went wrong on my own machine. I have to wonder how much it would cost to get someone to do what I can't do.
Meanwhile, there are a lot of things I don't like about DD machines. Some is personal--I used a DD machine during a period I'd like to forget. They are not as good as BD for washing ability. Then there is that whole Shredmore thing. I can't chime in on that definitively at this point from my own experience, but so many AW.org people have had trouble that I have to say there must be some issue. AW.org are not laundry idiots--they are NOT people who will stuff the tub so completely that the only way to close the lid on the washer is weighting down with a concrete block. BUT...these flaws to one side, one thing that does seem appealing is that it appears that servicing is easier.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
>It's a challenge and takes some time but is doable once the procedure is understood and one has gone through it a time or two.
I imagine so.
As I think of it more, one issue I recall was that I had no luck turning up info on the procedure. There are video clips for other repairs, but at least at the time I looked into doing it, I had no luck finding a WP belt change clip.
I imagine so.
As I think of it more, one issue I recall was that I had no luck turning up info on the procedure. There are video clips for other repairs, but at least at the time I looked into doing it, I had no luck finding a WP belt change clip.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
Even though the belt can be changed, I have to think that it's not exactly trivial for even someone with experience. So I'd consider the belt change difficulty to be a design flaw.
norgeway
Well-known member
Another thing about DD machines
Every one I ever saw had a scum line around the water line on the agitator...NEVER on a belt drive,f or all that thrashing, they don't wash nearly as well as a BD, I will give it to Maytag that they are easy to work on...but, There is a reason Maytags last forever with very little trouble, they agitate slowly and gently, so they never wear out, a Norge gives more trouble, but will outwash just about anything.,
Every one I ever saw had a scum line around the water line on the agitator...NEVER on a belt drive,f or all that thrashing, they don't wash nearly as well as a BD, I will give it to Maytag that they are easy to work on...but, There is a reason Maytags last forever with very little trouble, they agitate slowly and gently, so they never wear out, a Norge gives more trouble, but will outwash just about anything.,
whirlaway
New member
Its Not Bad!
I just changed the belt last week on my 1955,you lay it down on its front and worst part is getting the belt between brake yoke,I used a tire iron to seperate the yoke and slip the belt between it,I didnt realize the belt was so bad the machine was stopping in the middle of washes and not coming up to avery good spin speed and when I moved it out to change it looked like a bunch of squares under it,actually almost no grooves left on the belt.The new one installed the machine is quiet and comes right up to spin speed now what a difference!!!!! It hasnt run that good in 3 years.Great turnover now when washes!Its a Kenmore! Cycla fabric model.No leakage after I set it back in place.Its my everyday machine.
I just changed the belt last week on my 1955,you lay it down on its front and worst part is getting the belt between brake yoke,I used a tire iron to seperate the yoke and slip the belt between it,I didnt realize the belt was so bad the machine was stopping in the middle of washes and not coming up to avery good spin speed and when I moved it out to change it looked like a bunch of squares under it,actually almost no grooves left on the belt.The new one installed the machine is quiet and comes right up to spin speed now what a difference!!!!! It hasnt run that good in 3 years.Great turnover now when washes!Its a Kenmore! Cycla fabric model.No leakage after I set it back in place.Its my everyday machine.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
Old joke adapted for Kenmore...
Q. How many psychologists does it take to change a Kenmore drive belt?
A. Only one, but the belt needs to want change.
Q. How many psychologists does it take to change a Kenmore drive belt?
A. Only one, but the belt needs to want change.
I, too, am very afraid of replacing belts on Kenmores and Whirlpools -- mine are doing okay now but I dread the day I'm going to have to face the music and try to do the job. Maytags and Norge/Wards are so much easier!
And I have to agree with the consensus of this thread -- DD machines are no good. Rough on fabrics and not great turnover.
And I have to agree with the consensus of this thread -- DD machines are no good. Rough on fabrics and not great turnover.
The only good DD was the KitchenAid. 120 strokes per minute versus the WP/KM 180 spm. The larger fins created strong currents that moved even large loads around more fluidly, which means the fabrics spent less time being beaten by the chaotic agitation of the WP version. The motor's slower speed during agitation may have also extended the life of itself and the transmission as well.
I'd give anything to have the one we had when I was growing up. I was a kid so I didn't have the authority to ask my parents to keep it so I could try to fix it, but today I'm confident that it was a simple coupling replacement. A good machine gone to waste. The Maytag Atlantis that replaced it was and still is a phenomenal machine, but I wouldn't have traded that KA for anything in the world.
I'd give anything to have the one we had when I was growing up. I was a kid so I didn't have the authority to ask my parents to keep it so I could try to fix it, but today I'm confident that it was a simple coupling replacement. A good machine gone to waste. The Maytag Atlantis that replaced it was and still is a phenomenal machine, but I wouldn't have traded that KA for anything in the world.
I used to have both a KN DD machine and a newer Maytag-Orbital-didn't like either becuase of their fast,frantic agitation that shredded clothes.It was like putting your clothes into a blender.Traded both of them in to the swap shop for BD Whirlpool and KN.No more clothes wear problems other than from me wearing them out.Don't need the washer to contribute!The Maytag agitator actually had SHARP edges under its base vanes-smoothed them out with a file and sandpaper-BETTER!That Maytag had the brown color control panel.
arbilab
Well-known member
When I did that KM belt there was no such thing as internet videos. But I'd been taking lawnmowers apart since I was 12 and fixing slant Westys even longer. How hard could it be?
Well it went right back together and back into service good as new. Maybe I'm just better at expletives than the average person. The lord's name is not in vain when it gets you where you're going.
Well it went right back together and back into service good as new. Maybe I'm just better at expletives than the average person. The lord's name is not in vain when it gets you where you're going.
I remember the first time I changed a belt on a Whirlpool/Kenmore belt drive machine, let's just say I did it the hard way. The next time I did one the bag had instructions on it and it wasn't nearly as bad.
Ken D.
Ken D.
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