Old cars vs New cars

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ABS, TCS, stability control, & lots of airbags -- Great!

Blind spot monitoring? Not so much. Still in beta testing, IMO. My recent Nissan Rogue rental that. Thrice weekly I had a 1/4 mile to cross 6 lanes of highway traffic from far left to far right on my way home. The system would beep and flash at me right when I had to concentrate the most....

Speaking of the Nissan Rogue, I have a 6'7" friend who fits into my Cube with no problem. He was barely able to get into the Rogue, let alone get comfortable. comparing the two he was amazed the Rogue was so much bigger on the outside yet so much smaller inside.

Automatic Climate Control? No, really, I can handle turning a temp knob myself...

Back in the '80's I had a friend who'd inherited a '61 Mary Kay pink Olds Dynamic 88 convertible. I was the only one in our crowd she'd let drive it. Why? She approved of how I handled my own '74 Olds Custom Cruiser. I always volunteered to be a designated driver as long as I got to drive her car home from the bar, lol.
 
Love old cars to the extreme...

that we've had over 150 of them as a curbside amateur under-the-radar dealer/flipper. 1930s to mid 1970s US and also many British sports cars. . Growing with them, we also daily drove full size US '60s and '70s cars almost exclusively as our family drivers and boat and horse trailer pullers: Chrysler and GM wagons and 4 doors, up until the late '90s full sized Olds, Buicks and Mopars were our favorites.

We sold our non-power steering '58 Olds last month, so the only old car now will be the '68 Chevy Caprice 4 door hardtop Sport Sedan we're in the process of buying as we speak.

But we no longer want old cars as daily drivers, as wonderful as they are - since the late 90s it's been Japanese SUVs: Montero (1) Trooper (2) Xterra (2)... we really like the Xterra due to full truck frame, it's extreme capability in snow and off road, much needed in NY and VT, it's carrying capacity, modern safety features, the superb Nissan VQ V6 (0n Ward's 10 Best Engines for over 10 years, longer than any other) , but foremost it's simple easy to use non-touch screen analog old fashioned knob controls. And it will still get well over 20 mpg on our many trips to the north.
 
No more "tune-ups", thousands of miles between oil changes and for us in the rust belt , years and years of no rust worrying. Those are three significant features of new vehicles.  Still when my two wheeling days are over, hopefully not soon, I'd love to get myself another big land yacht for summer driving fun. 

 

I'm very happy with the Forester and doubt I'd ever go back to a car as my daily driver. I'm just shy of 6' and with the seat at full height I still don't touch the ceiling. It's easy to step in and out of with my bad back and visibility from the drivers seat is way better than the competition.  I love the adaptive cruise control,, that's going to be a must-have from now on.  I only wish it had rain sensing wipers like my old Mazda 3.. those were great.  It's odd how Subaru doesn't offer that option in N.America yet but when I checked their UK website, they have it there. 

 
 
"Old cars are much more comfortable than newer cars, and can acomidate anyone of any height, and have power steering that is effortless, while newer cars have have steering that stiff and is comparable to not having any power steering."

LOL!

Sean, nice world you live in.

Each generation comes along and says the *same* thing, but they refer to different decades of cars, just like almost everyone agrees that Saturday Night Live was funny some time ago and it's not funny anymore, but no one agrees on which season(s) are/were funny and which season it stopped being funny.

This nostalgia colors things. It gives listeners the impression that *everything* was *much better* back then, when very few things could be further than the truth. Some features were really nice. Some cars survived, but not most -- it's like people who say all songs from 1930's were better or that all classic music was better, but they were not alive to even have experienced that, their experience of classical music or songs from the 30's is the little that was good enough to survive, not the 90% of crap they used to have just like it's now for us.

Here's a little tidbit for you: Tom Selleck may be a bit taller than most people, but he's not the tallest person around either.

Magnum PI was supposed to have a *Porche* as the car -- Selleck couldn't fit in the car for love or money, so they switched it to a Ferrari. So much for accommodating people of any height. "Oh, frack, those are cars from Europe!" you say? I have friends who were barely a couple of inches higher than 6 feet, and they had to *squeeze* to fit in certain model years of Mustang, Corvette etc.

You know what? My relatives who were born in late 1800's/early 1900's used to say that younger people were useless, because they liked "new cars" and couldn't possibly drive "a good car from way back": they couldn't start a car by cranking up (with the implication that people were either too weak or would break a bone or two from the kick back), they didn't know how to set the distributor correctly depending on the car speed, they did not know how to use a manual choke, and they would just die in the rain because they couldn't crank the wipers manually, and also that they'd destroy a "good old car" first thing because they did not know how to double clutch, "imagine that, some new cars have even the 1st and 2nd gears with synchromesh!". You wouldn't want to get them started on when automatic transmissions, power steering and power brakes showed up.

I say it's all bullshit. No one is more of a man than someone else because their cars are more automatic. Any one of us could easily get used to a Ford Model T, and in fact, I had relatives from way back then who were women and cranked the engines to start themselves, drove cars with manual transmissions etc.

Just for Sean's information (and others who may not be up to date), there are more manual transmission cars all over the world than automatic transmission -- in most of the world, young girls learn to drive and get their drivers licenses using a manual transmission car.

I do not think we are in any danger of getting the cars more and more automated so people will get used to the idea of self-driving cars. Self-driving cars will show up one way or another, despite protests of people who think their dicks might fall off if they enter one -- they'll share the roads with other cars for a while until they get better several generations later, the thing that might make ordinary cars disappear is not a lack of people who want to drive, but the fact that at some point self-driving cars will be good enough to get into way less accidents than people, then the insurance for a self-driving car will be really cheap and super expensive for a "conventional" car.

As for "everything was better back then, you people are too lazy and probably not good enough drivers", LOL, we'll talk again when I see you driving a car during heavy rain without any "automatic" features, like my relatives used to do in early 1900's -- it's easy for me to complain that the rain sensor in such and such a car is better than the other one, of that the intermittent wipers on this car is better than the other one because it's speed sensitive, or this automatic transmission or that power steering.

Let's remove all of that and see who likes old cars.

The truth is that newer cars are safer, but it's not so much that safety is new -- most of the things we have now (limited slip differentials, AWD, 4WD, power steering, power brakes, ABS) etc showed up over 50 years ago, it's just that they used to be very expensive back then, and some of them did not work as well as the current versions. But a car from 1940's or 1950's shares *way* more with current cars than a car from 1920's.

The thing that makes me laugh at some here is that they are repeating stuff without any experience, they heard someone say it and they just parrot it. I have way more respect for people like Hans, who has *actual* experience with the cars than the parroting folks.

As for me, no, I did not *drive* some of the cars I'm talking about, but my uncles and relatives *did* and I was a passenger on their cars. One particular uncle had as a hobby buying any old cheap car he could find, spruce it up a bit during the 3-6 months it took him to get bored with it and then sell it to the next person and get another one. I lost count of the number of cars from 1930's to 1950's he had (this was during the 60's to the mid-70's) while he claimed no new cars were any good. Eventually, the energy crisis happened, he sold all the old cars and got a "modern" car. My older relatives were more stubborn, they kept their Ford Model T and Chevys from the same era until they got too old to drive. While I can now laugh it off and tell people it was "interesting" riding in the cars with them during heavy rain, water pouring into the car from all kinds of different places and the driver sometimes had to ask a passenger to crank the windshield wiper for them to be able to switch gears, at the time, when I was a kid, I was scared for my life, particularly at the lack of effective brakes -- some of those cars did not even have hydraulic brakes (not talking about power brakes, just what we call today "ordinary" brakes) and the brakes were actuated by a rod and you had to have good muscles in your legs to step hard enough on the brakes to make them work; and yes, some of my aunts drove those cars, there are men who go to the gym nowadays who have weaker legs than my aunts, deal with it.

There is one thing I can say about cars like Model T and similar aged/build cars: they seemed to be better at climbing up/down rocks in places that had no good roads, like farms. Most cars couldn't even go to places like that, you'd need a truck with high clearance or something built specifically for off roading. Then again, they couldn't go to the same farms when it rained, the tires were so not very wide and they'd get stuck in the mud. Oh, well.

Cheers,
   -- Paulo.
 
My maternal Grandma was probably one of the first women to drive an automobile in the state of Kansas. Her father owned a hotel in Sharon, Kansas and he bought one of the first cars in that little town in 1910, a 1910 Hupmobile. He taught grandma how to drive it when she was about 12. She got a bad spiral fracture of her arm once from cranking it when it backfired.

Then later on when she and grandpa got married in 1919 they had Model T Fords until about 1930. Model T's didn't have a clutch, they had a planetary transmission that was the forerunner of the modern automatic. There were 3 pedals, one for reverse in the middle, one for forward on the left that you held all the way out for high and to the floor for low, halfway down for neutral and the right pedal was a brake of sorts. It took a great deal of skill to get the hang of the Model T.

My grandma would load all four of her girls into the Model T and drive by herself 50 miles on rutted dirt roads to visit her parents, and never thought twice about it. Then in 1930 grandpa got a Chrysler with I believe a 4 speed transmission, ( but 1st was so low that it was seldom used in day to day driving, and was rather driven like a 3 speed). Anyway, it had been several years by then since grandma had driven the Hupmoblie, so grandpa tried giving her a crash course in driving with a clutch. The tensions reared and poor grandma became so unnerved by grandpa's lack of patience that she gave up driving and never drove again. What a shame, since she had been so independent, and one of the first women to drive in her state.

I've included a link below about how to drive a Model T. It took some skill.

Now we have cars that are driveless and in the not to distant future they will probably be commonplace. It will be wonderful for the elderly and disabled that can't drive, but seems a shame that people are fast becoming so dependent on technology to drive. I'm glad that I learned to drive in the old days, when we even had to use hand an arm signals for our drivers license test and parallel park.
Eddie


 
Anything

Is deadly when an idiot or drunk is at the wheel!You can get killed in a Volvo or Mercedes just as easily as a Corvair if you hit a semi truck head on at 85 or 90 miles an hour.Remember Princess Dianas death....Even a TOL Mercedes couldn't protect her.The best rules of thumb are, don't ever drive too fast for conditions, and don't tailgate!People blow me off the road when its raining, but several times I have seen them in a ditch on down the road....I have been driving 36 years and have never had a speeding ticked....I deserved plenty as a teenager..LOL
 
Cars are like appliances

We all like different things, for instance, John Lefever hates Frigidaire Radiantube units, I love them,I hate Maytag washers, but Bob ORear loves them, and on and on, we all have our preferences, I don't want a self cleaning oven or a self defrosting refrigerator, but most guys here think that's crazy...I am wrong many times and try to be man enough to admit it, John warned me about Kenmore electric ranges not baking great, I had to prove him wrong, well, I didn't, he was 100 percent correct, I should have listened..LOL..The point is, why argue and get mad over an opinion, I love Chrysler full time power steering and power drum brakes, others cant stand them, that really doesent bother me, drive what you want, cook on what you like etc lol
 
Old Hondas...

I remember when the Honda Accord first came out. I scouted around and asked for opinions. One that stuck in my mind was that while the car itself ran and handled well, at least when new, the various components (like interior stuff) was cheap and tended to fall apart.

Later I learned that in Japan, the government tries to force the citizenry to constantly buy new cars by mandating planned obsolescence via stringent inspection requirements after a few years. Such as, all the rubber in the car has to be replaced, whether or not it needs it. My suspicion is that the Japanese car companies of that day knew that either all the rubber would be replaced after a relatively short period, so why install rubber components that would last a lot longer? Turns out the cost of replacing all that stuff (not only rubber) and getting inspected is so expensive that most Japanese would simply trade in their few years old cars and buy new ones.

These days however there are Japanese cars and trucks that seem to last forever, at least in the USA. Perhaps Japan, Inc. realized that a Japan-spec vehicle would not last very long in the USA.

Me? I bought a '64 Valiant in '76. Still have it. I can't say it's been trouble free, and it's been parked for the last 17 years, but with a little work it could be on the road again. Part of my retirement list of things to do.
 
I'm 6ft tall but only 145 pounds.  I have a hard time finding cars that fit my BLB...bony little butt.  Tony had a '94 Lincoln Town Car when we met.  It fit fine.  He later got a 2000 Town Car that didn't fit me at all.  Then we had a 2003 that fit fine.  My grandmother had a '92 Mercury Grand Marquis that she bought new.  She had a stroke in 2007 and she sold it to me for a work car.  It rode and drove fine but again, the seat hurt my BLB and my back.  My 2001 VW Beetle commuter car's seat fits me better than just about any car I've had myself....and I've had my share since I was 16...from my little 1987 Chevy Nova (Toyota Corolla) that only had two options on it...AC and rear defroster...all the way up to our MB S500, Caddy's DTS and Escalade, and our new Lincoln MKS (the MKS fits me beautifully but if I put the seat at a good height for my long legs, my head will hit the ceiling due to the sunroof.

 

But I personally prefer small cars since I drive in lots of traffic and park in cramped parking decks at work.  Much easier to handle.  I think it's funny how much power today's cars have in much smaller engines.  My MKS V6 has only ONE horsepower less than my MB S500 had in it's 5.0L V8.

 
 
Safety and old vs. new:

Dad told us safety was in mainly between our ears. Keep your eyes on the road, and scanning the mirrors before you change lanes. Also that some accidents happen because drives execute a lane change or turn then change their minds before it is completed.

Technology; Old cars were heavier, with more around you to protect you, but they had no crumple zones to absorb impact. You had farther to travel to the wheel, dash, or glass, but the impact was harder when you hit them. Seat belts are still the best device. Air bags do what a larger interior used to do with seat belts.

My grandmother had a 1963 Fairlane. Once she stopped quickly and I flew clear from the back seat and hit my forehead on the metal dash. I think locking seat backs came out around 1969. Inertia controlled by '73, along with inertia seat belts and retracting shoulder harnesses.
 
"I think it's funny how much power today's cars have in much smaller engines."

Greg: this is rather easier to explain/understand -- for years (decades really), the thing people associated with engine power was how large the cylinder is and how many cylinders the engine has. But that only reflects the state of the art at that point back in time, when we didn't have certain metal alloys, treatments, the right lubricants etc, so engines had to be big to develop a certain amount of power, and the engine speed (rpm) was lower to avoid wear and tear.

What you are seeing nowadays are "small" engines that run at much higher speeds than engines of old and thus develop the same power -- also, transmissions are now much different from yesterday's transmissions, in that they accept a much higher rpm input and transfer the appropriate speed to the wheels, new lubricants make it possible.

If you ever want to see engines that are impressively powerful and small at the same time, take a look a turbo-fan (jet) engines and Wankel engines. Of course they are not practical for cars currently, for a variety of reasons -- the Wankel engine is very expensive to produce if you want a durable engine (or conversely, at moderate prices it doesn't last long) and the jet engines can produce an annoying high-frequency noise that even when we solve the other immediate problems (super-hot exhaust, pollution control etc) the public tends to object to their use in cars. Don't laugh yet, about 25 years ago there were even prototypes of cars that used a small jet engine to generate electricity to then run an electric motor and charge batteries.

Cheers,
   -- Paulo.
 
'74 seat belt interlock

my '74 chevy nova and and I think all all other '74 models had a system where you had to sit in the seat and buckle the seat belts in the correct sequence or you could not crank the car :)A little safety nudge from the "malaise" era :)There was a little "computer" containing a couple IC chips under the driver seat for the system.System was dropped for 1975 models,and setup was disabled on my nova when I bought it in 1986...
 
'74 seat belt interlock;

was only a switch in the seat wired to the ignition switch, no i.c or computer.
My '74 caprice had it, and I simply unplugged the wire under the seat.
Speaking of govt. safety mandates, have you noticed most new cars have no bumper space between the fascia and trunk, hatch, or grille protection at all hardly?
 
I drove a lot of Ramblers over the years. Mostly 1964-1969 Rambler Americans, and a couple of Rambler Classics. These cars always served me very well. The last one I bought, a 1965 Rambler American, cost me $1,000 and I drove it to work for 14 years. But now, I'm getting lazy in my middle age and no longer want to spend time in the driveway doing maintenance. Also, certain parts like new windshields are no longer available for these cars.

In July 2013 my partner and I bought a brand new Kia Soul for $16,500 and we're very happy with it. The dealer changes the oil and rotates the tires for only $40. This is the first car I paid more than $1000 for, and I love it, but I do miss my Rambler.
 
Re power of new cars

Yes, they do produce more power for the size engine, but there still is no feeling on earth like putting your foot into a big old four barrel and hearing a big v8 moan!
 
'Old Vs 'New'

All my cars have been 15-30 years old at the time of purchase. My current daily driver is a Vauxhall (Opel) Corsa B, 1.5 naturally-aspirated diesel model. I am hanging on to it because it is about as 'modern' as cars get (1995 vintage) before they have a plethora of unnecessary (and very expensive to repair/replace) electronica added for no apparent gain. No, I don't want 'central locking', No, I don't want electric windows, electricaly adjustable/heated/massaging seats, or any of a dozen other gizmos fitted as 'standard' on newer cars, just waiting to go faulty the moment the warranty expires, something I refer to as the 'Bladerunner' effect ;-) .. This vehicle does have a computer/ECU, but on this variant it's only function is as the timer for the preheater (glow) plugs. I have no objection in principle to ABS as a safety feature, though I have never driven a car so equipped, and can't shake the mental image of trying to perform an 'emergency stop' and the dashboard display popping up an "Are you Sure?" message while the computer holds the brakes off!!
In this country, it is illegal to watch television while driving, and any such screen must be placed out of the driver's sight.... So why do a lot of 'new' cars now have dashboard displays (Touchscreen or otherwise), which can only serve as a distraction from the road??
Safety on the road starts and finishes with competent, alert drivers (yes, I'm a Motorcyclist, too!!). Anything which distracts a driver/rider, or which gives them a (false!) sense of security has to be a 'bad thing' IMHO. I live on a small, overpopulated island, and I am frequently physically and mentally drained at the end of even some quite short journeys. As I say to friends who have commented on this over the years 'If you're not worn out at the end of a journey, you're clearly not paying enough attention to the road!'

Ok... Rant over ;-)

Dave T

P.S. Bosch electric power steering. I have no idea how this system ever passed the relevent safety tests (though I assume only new units were ever tested). A friend's Son recently passed his driving test, and bought a used Fiat Punto, seemingly a good 'first car'. He was very lucky that when the power steering suddenly and without any warning failed as he was negotiating a junction, it was on a Sunday morning and the road was empty, so no collision(s??) occurred. My investigation revealed that in order to shave 'a whole eighth of an inch' off the length of the servomotor, the soldered connections to the motor brushes are filed flat to the circuit board in order to fit under the motor end cap, inevitably resulting in fatigue fractures to the solder after a few years of temperature cycling. These are death traps just waiting to happen!!! BTW, Transit vans have a suspiciously similar looking servo motor. I have good upper body strength, and long driving experience, and I struggled to get that Punto home without the power steering working... I REALLY wouldn't want to be in charge of a fully loaded Transit on a busy road when the same kind of fault occurred!! :-O :-O
 
If I bought a car that plays fake engine noise on the speakers I would disable it right away. I would rather hear something less pleasant sounding that's real than something that sounds good but is fake.
 

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