Old dishwasher detergent, still sealed

[danieljay]

I found an old sample package of Cascade Complete powdered dishwasher detergent in my drawer, about 4 oz. No date on the label, but it states that it contains 7.74% phosphorous, in the form of phosphates. It's a sealed poly pouch and the powder inside still seems loose, not hard or clumpy.

There are plenty of websites telling you to use dishwasher detergent within 6 months, and some even claim it loses antibacterial properties after that, but it's unclear whether that applies to a factory sealed package containing phosphates. Is this stuff OK to use?

 

[combo52]

Yes, I have used DW detergent that is well over 20 years old with good results.

 

John L.

 

[iej]

Old formulas were pretty simple, and just dry chemicals. It’s possible some of it may have degraded but it will likely still work.

If it’s clumpy, sticky or discoloured, it’s probably reacted with itself and the air and may not work well. Some of the compounds may just disintegrate over time.

Some components are more reactive and volatile than others. The scent for example might be gone or altered.

A sample pack is likely a sealed plastic thing? So it may have survived a lot longer than a normal pack. Those were never entirely airtight, so moisture and oxygen gets in.

Also just bear in mind those older formulas were a lot harsher and were designed for machines that used more water. You might find the concentration in the low water levels of a modern machine might be bad for your dishes, especially anything with patterns.

Old dishwasher detergents definitely faded dishes a lot more than modern ones do. I have never really seen a modern detergent so damage to dishes, but I remember old Finish, Sun and others sold in Europe were very bleachy.

I don’t think the antibacterial proprieties of automatic dishwashing detergent are of huge concern. As long as it still has cleaning power, the hot water, chemicals and relatively long (compared to a commercial machine) cycle time shouldn’t leave any significant bacteria or viruses anyway.

They’re more cautious in commercial dishwashers due to short cycles and public, shared use of the crockery and cutlery (silverware).

 

[launderess]

In most local jurisdictions sanitation of dish, glass and silver ware used by public is spelled out by laws and or code. Nearly universally two options are offered; sanitation via temperature (which would include holding time), or chemicals.

Most places choose chemicals which accounts for strong chlorine smell often wafting from commercial dishwashers of all sorts.

Chlorine beach was long part of automatic dishwashing detergents (both domestic and commercial/industrial) for a few reasons. Mainly besides sanitation (chlorine bleach is still the gold standard by which other chemicals are judged), chlorine bleach destroys proteins. This is why you aren't supposed to use it on things like wool or silk. It also explains why drain cleaners and clog removers today are rather heavy on chlorine bleach.

Commercial/industrial dishwashers are largely sanitiziers. That is often things have been already well scrapped, pre-rinsed if not washed before going into machine. Thus enzymes while having revolutionzed domestic automatic dishwashing, largely aren't part of commercial/industrial setting. Cycles just are too fast...

You do find enzyme presoaks for flatware and other things, and there is a push to get places to use dishwashers that use less water. But also on flip side if much of the pre-rinsing/washing is eliminated or lessened, water use would decrease as well.

Only chlorine based automatic dishwasher detergent have seen lately are the gel versions of Cascade or Electrasol. Don't know if either are still around.

 

[iej]

The chlorine based gels are largely impossible to get here these days. I remember opening the dishwasher mid cycle as a kid and getting a large waft of steamy chlorine and also all the faded designs on plates and cups.

I know there’s nostalgia about the old days but modern detergents and machines do a much better job. I think we all get a touch of looking back through chlorine reddened eyes behind our rose tinted spectacles.

I was just remarking yesterday on how a Fairy (Cascade counterpart) pod on a Miele sensor wash cycle had utterly annihilated every trace of egg from a large stainless steel wok that had been caked on and burnt in. it had stir fried a dish involving eggs. It would have taken a Brillo pad to get that off by hand, but it came out sparkling.

I don’t think those older chlorine detergents would have removed it. I remember plenty of stuck on egg in the old days.

Also nothing turns pink anymore. In the old days, after any pasta dish, all your light coloured plastics were ruined.

Yay enzymes!!

 

[hotwater]

Nothing Wrong…

I actually came across a very similar find, a trial package of Original Cascade, Pure Rinse Formula from 2002. Contained 6% Phosphorous, which is a little over 20% STPP.

The sealing of the sample, was more than fine back in 2018. The formula seemed untouched, despite being kept under a wet, cold sink for more than a decade, and being exposed to endless moisture. The scent was the same, and cleaned very similar to my boxes of Cascade Complete from 2009.

I would go ahead and just use it. The worst possible scenario is your dishes just don’t come clean for a cycle, although, I’m very doubtful. I think it’s probably so well sealed, that it’s in chemically perfect condition.

 

[danieljay]

Following up, I finally used some of this detergent. Results were pretty ho-hum. Dishes came out looking mostly clean but not really sparkling. One fork still had some food stuck on it. I don't think it was even as good as fresh Walmart Great Value powder.

This was matter of curiosity more than anything. I'll seal the opened package in a Ziplock bag for now and use the rest of it it for washing our range hood grease traps. At least it won't be wasted that way. Thanks for the feedback everyone.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Chlorinated dishwasher detergents were the best not like the garbage sold today, it is also true dishwashers are not the same also.
But I prefer much more chlorinated detergents, they do a much better job
So did older dishwashers

 

[kenmoreguy89]

The thing is also that I see a lot of people today pre rinsing if not directly pre washing stuff, this is because they do not obtain acceptable results otherwise and or find this is the best solution.
This is also partially due to the fact many do not actually want to wait hours or they feel like those cycles must be too strong and perhaps energy consuming (based on being used to their older ones) and to chose quicker cycles (which also happens to be at low temp just like happens for laundry) and just do not have a clue of how things are supposed to work in reality and the differences.
With that said I found chlorinated detergents offer a good compromise and are very good both for use in older units and newer units, unlike enzymatic action products that may not offer the same results in older units.
Finish recently had to advertise just that on their latest commercials over here.
Advising to stop pre rinsing stuff claiming it is an unnecessary waste of water and that is not how dishwashers are supposed to be used.
And at the same time advising to choose lower temperatures, which translates into picking endless eco Cycles that takes even more than the already long normal or auto ones and that people generally just won't use for the reasons I mentioned before.
So what they do is chosing the quick ones and keep pre washing stuff to be almost totally clean already.
[this post was last edited: 1/6/2022-10:01]

 

[kenmoreguy89]