oldest central air conditioner

[bobofhollywood]

I wonder how old is the oldest central air conditioner that is still in service. There is one here that I maintain regularly which was installed in 1968. It has its original compressor and coolant although I have replaced the evaporator fan motor 2 years ago and one of the condensor fan motors this season. That's 42 years old and still working beautifully. Does anyone have or know of another this old or older? My other central unit is 21 years old and also still kicking out the cold.

 

[washernoob]

Our house was built in 58 plus or minus a few years. Its still got the original air conditioner. Which is far underpowered for the size of the house. We got it refilled with freon. (spelling?)

That thing is old! You should have seen the look on the kids face when he came to recharge it! He said it was the oldest one he has ever worked on.

 

[bobofhollywood]

cool !

Over 50 years is awesome washernoob. Any chance of a photo? Mine is an odd brand made by Universal Oil Burner (even though it is electrically operated).

 

[washernoob]

Yea I will get a picture later today of it! Its kinda cool. Its greenish in color. So Im thinking maybe right around 1960.

 

[dj-gabriele]

Gosh, that's old! I wonder how much juice they suck for running! What was the EER (W/W) back then? 1,5/2?

 

[whirlcool]

I was wondering the same thing. Our last house had a 1969 Magic Chef central unit outside, with a Fedders unit upstairs. It cooled OK, but had a efficiency rating of 1.0. We had $400.00 per month cooling bills. It was still working when we had it changed for a more efficient unit.

In 1994 or so we changed it out with a matched Carrier set. Wow, the air came out of those registers like a hurricane. It cooled the house down very quickly, it had a SEER of 12. Our next bill was about $165.00. I calculated that in 4 years, the change out paid for itself.

I remember growing up a lot of people had gas air conditioning. They had a huge (by todays standards)compressor out in the yard with a little blue flame logo on it. I think most of them were made by Homart(Sears) or Carrier. You never see these today. I wonder how they worked?

 

[ironrite]

23 Years

This old Carrier unit came off the roof last Summer. It had date of 1986 on it. It was a 5 ton unit, combination gas heat/electric AC. It was replaced by a new Carrier combination unit. It's final death knell was when the tech tried to service it and black glop started shooting out the service valve. The unit was just shot. The tech was surprised that it was still cooling, though not very well.

 

[bobofhollywood]

E E R

Amazingly the 42 year old units tag says it has an E E R of 10. That's part of the reason why I keep repairing it.

 

[norgeway]

I know of one!!!!

There is a Carrier unit in a store in my hometown that was installed in 52, Its a great big console thing about the size of a big refrigerator,and has a water tower on the roof,operates quiet as a mouse and is so cold if you stand in front of it it will make your teeth hurt!! The store it is in used to be Shields Refrigeration and Hardware,they were the Carrier dealer,as well as Bendix and Kelvinator,this unit was installed, not only to cool the store,but to show people how well a Carrier worked, the compressor looks like a car engine!!

 

[yogitunes]

Had mine blow out last night....electrical storm....blew the capacitor to hell....a blessing in disguise....got it repaired and running today.....at 7 years old and it time for a newer, larger one....their coming out next Wednesday to re-evaluate my home for the proper size unit....I have a 3 ton unit which is not only under-powered, but my electric bill runs $700.00+ per month, it never shuts off, EVER!....the guy claims with a newer, better built, higher capacity unit, my bill should drop to under $200.00 a month....crossing my fingers

 

[whirlcool]

Wow! $700.00 per month. The only time I have ever seen someone with that kind of bill is someone with a old inefficient a/c unit and a pool where nobody ever cleans the filter. Yikes!

 

[ronhic]

Martin...

...I would concur with that.

We moved into an 'L' shaped house (since sold) that had a flat steel roof with negligible insulation. The main heating/cooling was by split system Carrier in the loungeroom. Unfortunately the doorways didn't align so the airflow through the house was poor and coupled with some hotter than usual summers, the lack of insulation, flat roof and 2/3 of the west side of the house being glass, the house was furnace - try 36c INSIDE...

We bought a small unit that sat on the only panel of wall in the hallway on the outside of the house...it was tiny - about 2'6" long...

The difference this made to our house cannot be overstated. The main airconditioner would now cycle on and off as the, effectively, 2 zones of the house were being cooled and the air a more uniform temperature throughout - not icy in the lounge and roasting in the bedrooms....

...and our power bill dropped...not by much, but about 10%....given the house was actually livable, I would have paid more.....HAPPILY

 

[athanasius80]

For early air conditioning... the Davenport Hotel in Spokane, WA installed both central vacuuming and an air conditioning system when it was built in 1914. AFAIK the air conditioning was just a water cooling and filtering system. Parts of it might still be somewhere in the building.

 

[washernoob]

Picture!

Ahh I will go take one now. I keep forgetting.

Its been a VERY busy day!

I got my LICENSE!!!! Now I can put my old faithful
to work! my 1997 Ford expedition that can haul EVERYTHING!

And I bought a hoover platinum carpet cleaner today so I have been having the time of my life cleaning my carpets for real!

 

[bobofhollywood]

1993

Noob - My car is a 1993 and I notice that was your birth year. I guess old is relative. Its a mazda 323 that still gets 36 miles per gallon and being a hatch back it has hauled many appliances and now has 215,000 miles on the original engine and clutch . Congratulations on getting your licence .

 

[washernoob]

Thanks!

My brother had a 323 a few years ago. Nice car!

I like my truck because it has SO much room, and I can haul almost anything except a piano in it. (well maybe a spinet!)

It only gets like 16mpg I swear. Its terrible on gas!
Just replaces the serpentine belt, alternator. Flushed the power steering, oil, and tranny fluid. Runs excellent now!

We have owned it since new, so its kinda a family car for us, and its been passed down to me! My parents drive a 2003 expedition when we got our boat last night. My truck with 135k miles just was too old to pull a 25 foot boat.

 

[dj-gabriele]

Gas air conditionig

I selected 2 articles on wikipedia if you want to have a look, they explain the principle of absorption heat pumps, systems that exploit thermal energy, instead of electric driven compressor to generate the temperature difference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_heat_pump

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator

Anywyay, there still are such systems, a lot used in the industry and a little in domestic.
An Italian firm, don't remember the name anymore makes a combined system heat and cooling that could drive even the house refrigerator other than the air conditioning and water heating (at the same time!) using an absorption cycle based on ammonia. The size is comparable to a wall mounted gas heater of the same power.

 

[tolivac]

$700 per month to use the AC?sound like the refrigerant level is VERY low.In that case call a HVAC tech right away.I would not want to use it in that condition-you might blow the compressor.If the refrigerant is that low-there may not be enough to circulate the compressors lubricant.
the oldest HVAC systems I see are in workplaces-a former one I worked at in Wash DC was considered the first govt office building to be airconditioned-the Cohen building.They had 6 600ton centrifical Carrier chillers to cool the building and the neighboring one.This was in the 90's the Carriers were replaced with Trane chillers in late 90's.And the Tranes had greater capacity and more efficient.The old Carries had open Croker Wheeler 700Hp open frame motors.The carries have hermetic motors of less than half the HP.About the size of a 55Gal oil drum.The older motors were about like the size of a small car.In Florida in the Ft Walton beach area-there was a hardware store that had a console type AC unit-It was also a Carrier.Sure felt good to stand in front of it on the hot humid day we were there.

 

[volvoguy87]

AC

My Volvo is a 1987.

Last I heard, the Fox Theater in Atlanta, GA still runs its 1946 Carrier AC system with a water spray. It works and works VERY well. The building is beautifully restored and maintained and, so far as I know, there are no plans to change it.

Dave

 

[sambootoo]

My 1950's rancher is cooled by a 1977 Sears central AC unit. The thing still runs great but as others have said, it's undersized for the house. All rooms are comfortable during the night when the unit cycles on-off as it should. From 10 Am until 2 or 3 AM it never stops and it can't keep up with the heat. Looking in to replacing it, just seems hard to discard something that's still working faithfully after so many years!

 

[whirlcool]

Sam:

Here's a tip for you.
We were having the same problem with our A/C. When the outside temp went above 95F the a/c unit could only cool our house to about 80F.
Our neighbor across the street is an a/c guy. I explained this problem to him and he asked what kind of filters we were using. I told him we use the 3M corrigated type. He said those are too thick and they obstruct air flow. So, he recommended Purolator (or similar) corrigated filters. They are much lighter than the 3M (which by the way 3M sold their filter division to DuPont recently) and provide better airflow.
When we switched, we immediately felt the difference. Now the house will maintain 76F all the way up to 98F.
I also took apart our compressors cover earlier this year and cleaned out the coils with Dawn & hot water and rinsed thoroughly and rinsed them well. There was also a lot of debris inside the compressor box.
I think the combination of the two resulted in better cooling and airflow.

 

[hydralique]

How long have you lived in the house - has it always run so much? It may not be so much undersized as just dirty. As Whirlcool noted, the coils at the condensing unit may be dirty and reducing efficiency. Just be careful not to get water into any electrical controls when you clean it. How long has it been since the freon charge was checked? If it's a little low then capacity will be reduced.

So long as running constantly hasn't killed the compressor, there is an advantage in not oversizing the unit: dehumidification is determined more by how long the unit runs than the size of the unit. So, an over-sized unit may not give a comfortable house in a humid climate unless the temperature is set lower than ideal, as otherwise it'll run enough to cool the house but not dehumidify it.

 

[cuffs054]

MY ex-MIL had an ARKLA SUNVALLEY gas absorp system in her house in ATL that was installed in 1953 and worked when house was torn down last year. It even had its own cooling tower out back!

 

[volvoguy87]

Maintenance.

The best way to improve comfort and efficiency is maintenance. It's not big or something to point out and proud of, but it is the #1 best thing you can do. Change the filter regularly, clean the compressor/condenser and clean the evaporator coils inside too.

The next best thing you can do is ventilate and insulate the roof/attic properly. Improper insulation can trap moisture and cause all kinds of mold and other moisture-related hell.

Window replacement NEVER pays back a single penny. Relatively little energy is lost through windows, compared to other places, therefore the effect on your utility bill from window replacement is relatively small. Given how long it will take for replacement windows to pay for themselves in energy savings AND the short life of new windows (15-20 years mostly) the numbers just don't work.

Given all the above regarding windows, there are more affordable options that provide a far better bang for the buck. Double-cellular window blinds are good for insulating and block infrared light (heat). Infrared light is your enemy in the summer, but it's free heat in the winter. If you have old windows, maintain them. It's easy, cheap, and amazingly effective. Weatherstripping PROPERLY also makes a huge difference. Improper weatherstripping just causes trouble later and doesn't work as well anyway.

Keep cool,
Dave

 

[sambootoo]

Thanks for the tips. We've lived in the house since '83. The unit did a superb job of keeping us comfortable until we added a family room and master suite a few years ago. We knew then that the ac would not be adequate but just kept thinking it would die and we would get the appropriate size then. We've added extra attic insulation and have ridge vents as well as eaves and gable vents all around. The north and east sides of the house are shaded fairly well but the south and west sides are open to the blazing sun. We had all the ducts, coils cleaned earlier this summer, it did seem to help some but the 100 degree weather we've had the past few weeks is just too much. We use ceiling fans and several of my old vintage fans to help circulate the air to make it "feel" a little cooler. We're also no longer using the oven! One big source of heat I've noticed lately is the metal louvers over my whole house fan. It feels like a heater when you walk under that. I've ordered an insulating blanket of a thing to cover that. Hope it makes a little difference.

 

[volvoguy87]

Kitchens.

The kitchen is a huge source of heat. The refrigerator puts off quite a lot of heat. Also, cooking adds heat and humidity. I like using my pressure cooker in the summer. It speeds up the cooking process and cuts the heat output by over 75%.

Awnings on the exterior over the windows make a huge difference too. Bonus points for the vintage fans. I use fans when I am in the room or when I'm trying to move air of one temperature to an area of another temperature. If you're not using AC, you can let the temperature in the room (or building) stratify by not using fans. If you then open both the top and bottom sashes of a double hung window, the temperature gradient will cause a draft. It's best to do this only when it's cooler outside than in, otherwise you'll just heat up the building instead of cool it off.

Oil those fans with Zoom Spout!
Dave

 

[richardc1983]

You guys in America need to look towards INverter compressors in your air conditioning equipment.

Im suprised that the new central air con units manufactured do not have inverter compressors in them.

It seems that only split type a/c units or (mini splits) as you guys call them where you have an outdoor unit and an indoor unit have inverter compressors. A lot of savings will be made by using inverter compressors.

AS the topic is about an old air con unit...

Have a look at this link, it shows various buildings in the uk and how they used to ventilate/cool their buildings! Very interesting read... particulary the City Hall Building in Cardiff!

Fascinating!

http://www.hevac-heritage.org/items_of_interest/ventilation/ventilation.htm
http://www.hevac-heritage.org/items_of_interest/ventilation/ventilation.htm

 

[hydralique]

What a neat website, I really enjoyed looking at the buildings. Kudos to the authors for not forgetting to note the architect's names.

Some invertor compressors are in use here in the US, mostly in the mini-splits. Full size split systems are going more toward digital scroll technology. Both invertor and digital scroll compressors allow matching of compressor output with the cooling requirements, although they use different technology to achieve this.

One issue here is that much of the compressor market is driven by replacement of existing compressors or condensing units, rather than all new systems. This means the evaporator and refrigerant piping aren't replaced, so the new compressors have to be compatible with the older equipment. For all new systems, energy standards are now pretty strict, hence the movement toward compressors with variable output.

 

[richardc1983]

@hydralique

I agree

Very interesting site, the size of those echaust fans are massive.

Ive always wondered how big the supply fans are in shopping centres... they must be massive.

The digital sroll is used as you say in larger a/c systems such as VRF or VRV systems. Inverter technology is used in the smaller splits.

As you say the idea is the same... to modulate and save energy.

 

[hydralique]

Those big fans are indeed incredible. I doubt that any modern buildings use anything like them; certainly I've not seen fans so large. Generally with an older or tall large building you'll have a chiller/boiler system to pipe hot and cold water through the building with small fan-coil units supplying localized forced air systems. Shopping centers, in particular single story centers, usually use rooftop package units supplying the duct systems. That way the building owners can separately meter gas and electrical use for tenants. It also prevents a huge systemwide shutdown if a chiller or boiler fails, and provides some zoning.

One neat bit of modern technology I like is computer controlled damper units. I remodeled a house last year that sits on a hilltop not too far from the ocean but it can still get plenty hot and cold. It's about 3000 sq. ft, (about 285 sq. meters), but there are four very distinct exposures for the house: the living room has huge glass walls on two sides (very mid-century), the master bedroom has a glass wall on one side, the secondary bedrooms have little glass, but are on the top level under a flat roof, while the den is on a lower level and very well protected.

The house is too small for more than two systems, so we used one three ton system for the living room and kitchen and a four ton system with the computer damper for the rest of the house. This allows having three zones, each with its own thermostat. In the morning, if the master bedroom gets hot that thermostat can call for cooling, so the system will turn the a/c on and shunt all the air into that area. If the den is still cold and that thermostat calls for heat, the system will satisfy the master bedroom, turn off the a/c, blow ambient air throught the damper to get the cold air out, and then fire the heater and send that output into the den. By this method it can provide for both heating and cooling almost at the same time. Combined with a variable output compressor and multi-speed blower it can increase comfort and save energy as well.