My 1950's rancher is cooled by a 1977 Sears central AC unit. The thing still runs great but as others have said, it's undersized for the house. All rooms are comfortable during the night when the unit cycles on-off as it should. From 10 Am until 2 or 3 AM it never stops and it can't keep up with the heat. Looking in to replacing it, just seems hard to discard something that's still working faithfully after so many years!
oldest central air conditioner
- Thread starter bobofhollywood
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whirlcool
Well-known member
Sam:
Here's a tip for you.
We were having the same problem with our A/C. When the outside temp went above 95F the a/c unit could only cool our house to about 80F.
Our neighbor across the street is an a/c guy. I explained this problem to him and he asked what kind of filters we were using. I told him we use the 3M corrigated type. He said those are too thick and they obstruct air flow. So, he recommended Purolator (or similar) corrigated filters. They are much lighter than the 3M (which by the way 3M sold their filter division to DuPont recently) and provide better airflow.
When we switched, we immediately felt the difference. Now the house will maintain 76F all the way up to 98F.
I also took apart our compressors cover earlier this year and cleaned out the coils with Dawn & hot water and rinsed thoroughly and rinsed them well. There was also a lot of debris inside the compressor box.
I think the combination of the two resulted in better cooling and airflow.
Here's a tip for you.
We were having the same problem with our A/C. When the outside temp went above 95F the a/c unit could only cool our house to about 80F.
Our neighbor across the street is an a/c guy. I explained this problem to him and he asked what kind of filters we were using. I told him we use the 3M corrigated type. He said those are too thick and they obstruct air flow. So, he recommended Purolator (or similar) corrigated filters. They are much lighter than the 3M (which by the way 3M sold their filter division to DuPont recently) and provide better airflow.
When we switched, we immediately felt the difference. Now the house will maintain 76F all the way up to 98F.
I also took apart our compressors cover earlier this year and cleaned out the coils with Dawn & hot water and rinsed thoroughly and rinsed them well. There was also a lot of debris inside the compressor box.
I think the combination of the two resulted in better cooling and airflow.
How long have you lived in the house - has it always run so much? It may not be so much undersized as just dirty. As Whirlcool noted, the coils at the condensing unit may be dirty and reducing efficiency. Just be careful not to get water into any electrical controls when you clean it. How long has it been since the freon charge was checked? If it's a little low then capacity will be reduced.
So long as running constantly hasn't killed the compressor, there is an advantage in not oversizing the unit: dehumidification is determined more by how long the unit runs than the size of the unit. So, an over-sized unit may not give a comfortable house in a humid climate unless the temperature is set lower than ideal, as otherwise it'll run enough to cool the house but not dehumidify it.
So long as running constantly hasn't killed the compressor, there is an advantage in not oversizing the unit: dehumidification is determined more by how long the unit runs than the size of the unit. So, an over-sized unit may not give a comfortable house in a humid climate unless the temperature is set lower than ideal, as otherwise it'll run enough to cool the house but not dehumidify it.
MY ex-MIL had an ARKLA SUNVALLEY gas absorp system in her house in ATL that was installed in 1953 and worked when house was torn down last year. It even had its own cooling tower out back!
Maintenance.
The best way to improve comfort and efficiency is maintenance. It's not big or something to point out and proud of, but it is the #1 best thing you can do. Change the filter regularly, clean the compressor/condenser and clean the evaporator coils inside too.
The next best thing you can do is ventilate and insulate the roof/attic properly. Improper insulation can trap moisture and cause all kinds of mold and other moisture-related hell.
Window replacement NEVER pays back a single penny. Relatively little energy is lost through windows, compared to other places, therefore the effect on your utility bill from window replacement is relatively small. Given how long it will take for replacement windows to pay for themselves in energy savings AND the short life of new windows (15-20 years mostly) the numbers just don't work.
Given all the above regarding windows, there are more affordable options that provide a far better bang for the buck. Double-cellular window blinds are good for insulating and block infrared light (heat). Infrared light is your enemy in the summer, but it's free heat in the winter. If you have old windows, maintain them. It's easy, cheap, and amazingly effective. Weatherstripping PROPERLY also makes a huge difference. Improper weatherstripping just causes trouble later and doesn't work as well anyway.
Keep cool,
Dave
The best way to improve comfort and efficiency is maintenance. It's not big or something to point out and proud of, but it is the #1 best thing you can do. Change the filter regularly, clean the compressor/condenser and clean the evaporator coils inside too.
The next best thing you can do is ventilate and insulate the roof/attic properly. Improper insulation can trap moisture and cause all kinds of mold and other moisture-related hell.
Window replacement NEVER pays back a single penny. Relatively little energy is lost through windows, compared to other places, therefore the effect on your utility bill from window replacement is relatively small. Given how long it will take for replacement windows to pay for themselves in energy savings AND the short life of new windows (15-20 years mostly) the numbers just don't work.
Given all the above regarding windows, there are more affordable options that provide a far better bang for the buck. Double-cellular window blinds are good for insulating and block infrared light (heat). Infrared light is your enemy in the summer, but it's free heat in the winter. If you have old windows, maintain them. It's easy, cheap, and amazingly effective. Weatherstripping PROPERLY also makes a huge difference. Improper weatherstripping just causes trouble later and doesn't work as well anyway.
Keep cool,
Dave
Thanks for the tips. We've lived in the house since '83. The unit did a superb job of keeping us comfortable until we added a family room and master suite a few years ago. We knew then that the ac would not be adequate but just kept thinking it would die and we would get the appropriate size then. We've added extra attic insulation and have ridge vents as well as eaves and gable vents all around. The north and east sides of the house are shaded fairly well but the south and west sides are open to the blazing sun. We had all the ducts, coils cleaned earlier this summer, it did seem to help some but the 100 degree weather we've had the past few weeks is just too much. We use ceiling fans and several of my old vintage fans to help circulate the air to make it "feel" a little cooler. We're also no longer using the oven! One big source of heat I've noticed lately is the metal louvers over my whole house fan. It feels like a heater when you walk under that. I've ordered an insulating blanket of a thing to cover that. Hope it makes a little difference.
Kitchens.
The kitchen is a huge source of heat. The refrigerator puts off quite a lot of heat. Also, cooking adds heat and humidity. I like using my pressure cooker in the summer. It speeds up the cooking process and cuts the heat output by over 75%.
Awnings on the exterior over the windows make a huge difference too. Bonus points for the vintage fans. I use fans when I am in the room or when I'm trying to move air of one temperature to an area of another temperature. If you're not using AC, you can let the temperature in the room (or building) stratify by not using fans. If you then open both the top and bottom sashes of a double hung window, the temperature gradient will cause a draft. It's best to do this only when it's cooler outside than in, otherwise you'll just heat up the building instead of cool it off.
Oil those fans with Zoom Spout!
Dave
The kitchen is a huge source of heat. The refrigerator puts off quite a lot of heat. Also, cooking adds heat and humidity. I like using my pressure cooker in the summer. It speeds up the cooking process and cuts the heat output by over 75%.
Awnings on the exterior over the windows make a huge difference too. Bonus points for the vintage fans. I use fans when I am in the room or when I'm trying to move air of one temperature to an area of another temperature. If you're not using AC, you can let the temperature in the room (or building) stratify by not using fans. If you then open both the top and bottom sashes of a double hung window, the temperature gradient will cause a draft. It's best to do this only when it's cooler outside than in, otherwise you'll just heat up the building instead of cool it off.
Oil those fans with Zoom Spout!
Dave
richardc1983
Well-known member
You guys in America need to look towards INverter compressors in your air conditioning equipment.
Im suprised that the new central air con units manufactured do not have inverter compressors in them.
It seems that only split type a/c units or (mini splits) as you guys call them where you have an outdoor unit and an indoor unit have inverter compressors. A lot of savings will be made by using inverter compressors.
AS the topic is about an old air con unit...
Have a look at this link, it shows various buildings in the uk and how they used to ventilate/cool their buildings! Very interesting read... particulary the City Hall Building in Cardiff!
Fascinating!
Im suprised that the new central air con units manufactured do not have inverter compressors in them.
It seems that only split type a/c units or (mini splits) as you guys call them where you have an outdoor unit and an indoor unit have inverter compressors. A lot of savings will be made by using inverter compressors.
AS the topic is about an old air con unit...
Have a look at this link, it shows various buildings in the uk and how they used to ventilate/cool their buildings! Very interesting read... particulary the City Hall Building in Cardiff!
Fascinating!
What a neat website, I really enjoyed looking at the buildings. Kudos to the authors for not forgetting to note the architect's names.
Some invertor compressors are in use here in the US, mostly in the mini-splits. Full size split systems are going more toward digital scroll technology. Both invertor and digital scroll compressors allow matching of compressor output with the cooling requirements, although they use different technology to achieve this.
One issue here is that much of the compressor market is driven by replacement of existing compressors or condensing units, rather than all new systems. This means the evaporator and refrigerant piping aren't replaced, so the new compressors have to be compatible with the older equipment. For all new systems, energy standards are now pretty strict, hence the movement toward compressors with variable output.
Some invertor compressors are in use here in the US, mostly in the mini-splits. Full size split systems are going more toward digital scroll technology. Both invertor and digital scroll compressors allow matching of compressor output with the cooling requirements, although they use different technology to achieve this.
One issue here is that much of the compressor market is driven by replacement of existing compressors or condensing units, rather than all new systems. This means the evaporator and refrigerant piping aren't replaced, so the new compressors have to be compatible with the older equipment. For all new systems, energy standards are now pretty strict, hence the movement toward compressors with variable output.
richardc1983
Well-known member
@hydralique
I agree
Very interesting site, the size of those echaust fans are massive.
Ive always wondered how big the supply fans are in shopping centres... they must be massive.
The digital sroll is used as you say in larger a/c systems such as VRF or VRV systems. Inverter technology is used in the smaller splits.
As you say the idea is the same... to modulate and save energy.
I agree
Very interesting site, the size of those echaust fans are massive.
Ive always wondered how big the supply fans are in shopping centres... they must be massive.
The digital sroll is used as you say in larger a/c systems such as VRF or VRV systems. Inverter technology is used in the smaller splits.
As you say the idea is the same... to modulate and save energy.
Those big fans are indeed incredible. I doubt that any modern buildings use anything like them; certainly I've not seen fans so large. Generally with an older or tall large building you'll have a chiller/boiler system to pipe hot and cold water through the building with small fan-coil units supplying localized forced air systems. Shopping centers, in particular single story centers, usually use rooftop package units supplying the duct systems. That way the building owners can separately meter gas and electrical use for tenants. It also prevents a huge systemwide shutdown if a chiller or boiler fails, and provides some zoning.
One neat bit of modern technology I like is computer controlled damper units. I remodeled a house last year that sits on a hilltop not too far from the ocean but it can still get plenty hot and cold. It's about 3000 sq. ft, (about 285 sq. meters), but there are four very distinct exposures for the house: the living room has huge glass walls on two sides (very mid-century), the master bedroom has a glass wall on one side, the secondary bedrooms have little glass, but are on the top level under a flat roof, while the den is on a lower level and very well protected.
The house is too small for more than two systems, so we used one three ton system for the living room and kitchen and a four ton system with the computer damper for the rest of the house. This allows having three zones, each with its own thermostat. In the morning, if the master bedroom gets hot that thermostat can call for cooling, so the system will turn the a/c on and shunt all the air into that area. If the den is still cold and that thermostat calls for heat, the system will satisfy the master bedroom, turn off the a/c, blow ambient air throught the damper to get the cold air out, and then fire the heater and send that output into the den. By this method it can provide for both heating and cooling almost at the same time. Combined with a variable output compressor and multi-speed blower it can increase comfort and save energy as well.
One neat bit of modern technology I like is computer controlled damper units. I remodeled a house last year that sits on a hilltop not too far from the ocean but it can still get plenty hot and cold. It's about 3000 sq. ft, (about 285 sq. meters), but there are four very distinct exposures for the house: the living room has huge glass walls on two sides (very mid-century), the master bedroom has a glass wall on one side, the secondary bedrooms have little glass, but are on the top level under a flat roof, while the den is on a lower level and very well protected.
The house is too small for more than two systems, so we used one three ton system for the living room and kitchen and a four ton system with the computer damper for the rest of the house. This allows having three zones, each with its own thermostat. In the morning, if the master bedroom gets hot that thermostat can call for cooling, so the system will turn the a/c on and shunt all the air into that area. If the den is still cold and that thermostat calls for heat, the system will satisfy the master bedroom, turn off the a/c, blow ambient air throught the damper to get the cold air out, and then fire the heater and send that output into the den. By this method it can provide for both heating and cooling almost at the same time. Combined with a variable output compressor and multi-speed blower it can increase comfort and save energy as well.
bobofhollywood
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2006
- Messages
- 457
yes, but
That's all very interesting to read but what does that have to do with the original intent of this thread? I completely forgot what we were talking about. Thank you all for the advice but how in the world does this help find the oldest central air conditioner?
That's all very interesting to read but what does that have to do with the original intent of this thread? I completely forgot what we were talking about. Thank you all for the advice but how in the world does this help find the oldest central air conditioner?
1946 is the year to beat.
As I wrote earlier, the Fox theater in Atlanta, GA runs its 1946 Carrier AC system. Any older than 1946 still in existence?
Dave
As I wrote earlier, the Fox theater in Atlanta, GA runs its 1946 Carrier AC system. Any older than 1946 still in existence?
Dave
bobofhollywood
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2006
- Messages
- 457
1946 carrier
The fox theater is already on my list of places to see before I kick the bucket. I want to hear the mighty moller theater organ and now I am also looking forward to experiencing some of the worlds oldest air conditioning.
The fox theater is already on my list of places to see before I kick the bucket. I want to hear the mighty moller theater organ and now I am also looking forward to experiencing some of the worlds oldest air conditioning.
richardc1983
Well-known member
If you read the link bobofhollywood you will see that is my contribution to this thread with regards to air con and ventilation.
Some of those buildings systems are from 1900's and they are centralised systems! Just not in the same way as you would expect today!
Some of those buildings systems are from 1900's and they are centralised systems! Just not in the same way as you would expect today!
bobofhollywood
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2006
- Messages
- 457
should have been more specific
I guess I should have asked does anyone have a working central air conditioner currently working at their home that is older than mine. That's what I meant. That's why I supplied a photo of mine. I am guessing what I learned is nobody does. I also seemed to have learned some other things which have nothing to do with the oldest central air conditioner you own. Thank you amd stay cool.
I guess I should have asked does anyone have a working central air conditioner currently working at their home that is older than mine. That's what I meant. That's why I supplied a photo of mine. I am guessing what I learned is nobody does. I also seemed to have learned some other things which have nothing to do with the oldest central air conditioner you own. Thank you amd stay cool.
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
To the original poster.......It still has the original coolant???? WOW, just wow!
To the guy with the 400 dollar/mo electric bill and the other guy with the 700 dollar/mo electric bill, another wow.
My Trane unit is from 2004 and it's been repaired 4 or 5 times in the last 4 years. I've lost count. Right now it's working great. It was 96 yesterday and I had it set on 75 and it stayed on 75 inside (so it's working well), but it ran constantly during the hottest hours of the day. When it gets that hot, mine doesn't cycle off at all until about 8 to 9 pm. My electric bill is usually in the 150's during extreme weather months and can be as low as 75 dollars in the moderate months when heat/ac isn't needed.
To the guy with the 400 dollar/mo electric bill and the other guy with the 700 dollar/mo electric bill, another wow.
My Trane unit is from 2004 and it's been repaired 4 or 5 times in the last 4 years. I've lost count. Right now it's working great. It was 96 yesterday and I had it set on 75 and it stayed on 75 inside (so it's working well), but it ran constantly during the hottest hours of the day. When it gets that hot, mine doesn't cycle off at all until about 8 to 9 pm. My electric bill is usually in the 150's during extreme weather months and can be as low as 75 dollars in the moderate months when heat/ac isn't needed.
whirlaway
New member
Old Unit
Last year my 1949 Mitchell huge window unit bit the dust.The new one doesnt work anywhere close as good as the old one it was a freon 12 unit.A bunch of us guys meet twicw a week at an old cafe near my brothers house they still have a huge stand up Chrysler airtemp unit running right along in this 95to100 degree weather we have had for the last couple of months,keeps the place nice and cold. Thanks Bobby
Last year my 1949 Mitchell huge window unit bit the dust.The new one doesnt work anywhere close as good as the old one it was a freon 12 unit.A bunch of us guys meet twicw a week at an old cafe near my brothers house they still have a huge stand up Chrysler airtemp unit running right along in this 95to100 degree weather we have had for the last couple of months,keeps the place nice and cold. Thanks Bobby
williepeck
Member
Gas furnace.
I stumbled across this thread and couldn't help but mention in my house I have a 1958 custom aire gas furnace. I know it's not an air conditioner but its sill central HVAC equipment. Where I'm from I barley use it. People say oh replace it with a energy efficient one you'll enjoy it. No. No I won't. The new ones may be extremely efficient but I am yet to come across a modern one that heats as good as mine, is reliable as mine, and is quiet as mine. Although I never checked the discharge temp I'm assuming its close to 200 degrees F. My grandpa had a 1972 gas furnace but replace it when he got AC installed his old and new equipment are both Day&night.
I stumbled across this thread and couldn't help but mention in my house I have a 1958 custom aire gas furnace. I know it's not an air conditioner but its sill central HVAC equipment. Where I'm from I barley use it. People say oh replace it with a energy efficient one you'll enjoy it. No. No I won't. The new ones may be extremely efficient but I am yet to come across a modern one that heats as good as mine, is reliable as mine, and is quiet as mine. Although I never checked the discharge temp I'm assuming its close to 200 degrees F. My grandpa had a 1972 gas furnace but replace it when he got AC installed his old and new equipment are both Day&night.
