One More Time Please - Rust Removal

[whirlcool]

Last weekend we were up in Denver for a wedding. We were in such a hurry to leave the white shirt I was going to wear to the event was wrinkled. So I used the steam iron in the room to iron it. Just as I was on the last panel of the shirt (the front) the steam iron spit and gurgled and let out a whole bunch of rusty water on my shirt! It left a stain about 6 inches in diameter.
It's a fairly new shirt, I'd hate to discard it. I haven't done anything to it yet.
What is the proper way to remove the rust stain from this shirt?

 

[launderess]

For white shirts, get thee a bottle of "Wink" rust remover or any other brand for that matter and follow the directions CAREFULLY. Rust removers are acids and some are quite strong, strong enough indeed to damage porcelain and other surfaces.

DO NOT USE CHLORINE BLEACH! Either as pre-spot or in wash water until the rust stain is removed. LCB will more or less cause the rust stain to become permanent.

L.

 

[whirlcool]

Thank you Laundress for your quick response. I'll look for a bottle of "Wink" tomorrow.
BTW, I was glad I had another white shirt available that was already ironed, so I got to wear that one instead. Otherwise I wouldn't have known what to do!

 

[launderess]

Sorry,

Product is called "Whink", not Wink.

Or, you could just take the shirt to any good dry cleaners. Rust stains aren't that difficult for someone that knows what he is doing.

 

[panthera]

Allen,

If you can't find Whink, the Dr. Beckmann's stain remover system from Germany is now available in the US at Walmart. Their rust remover is the same base - oxalic acid - and works perfectly. It is also super poisonous, will etch porcelain and glass and you will want to throw away whatever is left of it, if any or store it in the gun cabinet.
Literally.

But it works, wow does it work.

Oh, and good news - that rusty water is also chock full of manganese, too. Water in Colorado is good for you, hell on irons.

 

[mrboilwash]

You could try a mixture of salt and lemon juice, if it is not strong enough to remove the stain within 10 minutes you can still buy a special product.

 

[thomasortega]

Keven

I've been using oxalic acid for years and never had any issue with it.

Ok, it's harmful, I agree, but it's not dangeros enough to throw away the left of it or store it in the gun cabinet or wear a HAZMAT vest to treat a stain. But of course, keep it in a cabinet out of reach of children.

When I'm going to use it, i open the garment to expose the rust stain, open the faucet, apply one or two drops right on the stain (the stain dissapears instantly) and I rinse immediatelly with lots and lots of water. it takes less than 2 seconds between dripping the acid and putting the garment under running water. I don't even wear gloves, but I wear safety glasses.

 

[panthera]

Thomas,

Drinking oxalic acid and eating those parts of plants - like rhubarb leaves containing it, is one of the most horribly painful deaths a child can die.

Neither oxalic acid nor chlorine bleach nor drain cleaner...and a whole bunch of other chemicals we use daily...should be left in reach of children. I never said anything about a Hazmat suit, for pity's sake.

I do have friends here in Germany who do bring their kids with them to visit me at times and I do make damn sure everything the kids might possibly get into is up and out of reach. Really horrid stuff which does not come in containers which look dangerous (oxalic acid, for instance) I don't keep around, I throw away what I don't use.

Sheesh.

 

[tolivac]

Drain cleaners are considered to be the most dangerous chemicals available for a householder to use-it can be bought from any grocer.Now speacialty chemicals such as oxalic acid-also used by woodworkers and furniture refinishers to bleach wood.And sodium and potassium cyanide for lapidaries to use for silverplating jewery items.I can remember the LOCKED cabinet at the lapidary supplier for the cyanides.I beleive that other electrolyte solutions are now available for gemmakers to silverplate items now.Less toxic.Oxalic acid is NOTHING compared to the cyanides.You can even get killed by breathing their dust!I can agree on these really dangerous chemicals-find another chemical or process to use instead-have the work done profesionally,or only get what you use for the operation.Do not store the hazmat items.And if you really have to keep them-store only in the orig containers with the labeling and LOCKED UP!!

 

[panthera]

Scary stuff

Take a look at the link, specifically 'rust removers, other acids'.

Actually, take a look at any of the stuff on the TESS list, holy cow.

Tolivac is right, all this stuff needs to be clearly labeled and out of reach of kids. The current poison sheet on oxalic acid, by the by, agrees with me, very little (as in one leaf) can be enough to kill, horribly. The concentration of the acid in a rust remover is far higher. I don't think it's hysteria to warn people of the dangers of something when you recommend it - I sure as hell am not an MD or toxicologist and I do appreciate it when someone tells me what's in the piranha mix the labware soaking in over there when my students and I borrow a room on campus...

Here's a nice one you Americans don't have to deal with. Over here, 27% acetic acid solutions are sold in normal glass bottles for household use. With recipe instructions for salad dressing!

27%!!! First time I saw that, I just about, well, never mind, but, wow! In the 'States, that would be in the locked cabinet with the other nasty acids at the lumber yard and they'd make you read the sheet on it first, sign off and take your ID.

http://www.poison.org/prevent/documents/TESS%20Annual%20Report%202004.pdf

 

[thomasortega]

What I tried to say above is exactly about the hysteria.

Actually I don't know if the American Oxalic Acid has exactly the same concenration as the brazillian one.

The brazillian Oxalic Acid is named as "Semorin rust remover", comes in very small bottles with a drip counter and it can be found in the supermarket between the powder detergents and fabric softener, among other pre treaters and stain removers.

If I apply a single drop of it on cotton and don't rinse, in 5 minutes it will make a hole on the fabric.

My skin isn't so delicate, but also it's not hard as sandpaper. I can put a few drops on my hand and it doesn't do anything. Only if I don't rinse, it will start a very light burn (I can feel but no see the marks) after 30 minutes or more of contact. So I guess it's not so concentrated.

Of course, like all household cleaning products, It should be kept out of reach of children, but I don't think it's necessary to throw away the lefts of keep it in locked cabinet or (exagerating to explain) wear HAZMAT vest or evacuate the whole block when you're going to use it.

Drain cleaners and even chlorine bleach are much more dangerous than oxalic acid in my opinion.

 

[panthera]

Thomas,

Maybe your version is less dangerous. In 2004, in the United States alone, over 500 children were at the very least admitted to hospital for treatment and or died from having drunk the stuff. This alongside even more who either died or were so severely poisoned they were in the hospital for some time because of eating one leaf of the rhubarb plant.

I'm immune to most of the 'poison' ivy and oaks and sumac. My brother was in the hospital with burns so deep the skin is scarred to this day from a poison sumac on my parent's old property.

It's not hysteria, it's fact.

 

[mielabor]

It is all in the concentration and there is no reason to panic about oxalic acid. Just be sensible when handling the stuff. It is irritating so you get warned when coming into contact with the stuff. Eye protection is advisable but that is also true when using bleach. How many people wear goggles when using bleach?

Many vegetables contain oxalic acid so the average person consumes it regularly and most people can eat many kilos of rhubarb before getting ill. People that get hospitalised after eating only one rhubarb leaf must be extremely sensitive and cannot be representative for the whole population. If we judge food by these cases there remains hardly anything to eat and we probably die from starvation...

 

[panthera]

Theo,

The stalks do not contain significant concentrations of the acid. The leaves in North America have far more than does the variety native to us here in Central Europe. It's the leaves which are dangerous and not the stalks. I studied plant toxins a few centuries ago and yes, the whole oxidacae has some groovy tasting foods.

It has nothing to do with sensitivity, and I was not talking about skin contact, that was Thomas comment about hazmat suits, not mine.

I find over 500 kids a year poisoned by the rust remover with the acid in it in the US alone a bit too much to just dismiss. Living in Munich, where if you drop a glass, the water may well break before the glass does, I keep citric, acetic, formic and Salzsäure handy, as does everyone else here. I just don't kid myself that a kid won't get into them, so I keep them out of reach and when I do need acetic or stronger, I buy just enough for what I need and turn the rest into the dangerous materials recycling center. When I was in the US the last time, friends from Berlin with their 4 year old daughter spend two weeks in my apartment. How should they know what I have, where?

 

[mielabor]

Hmm...

To my knowledge rhubarb poisoning is caused not by oxalic acid alone. The leaves contain other toxins too and it is still exceptional to develop symptoms after consuming only one leaf. Maybe it was another plant species.

And out of curiosity: what is formic acid used for? I have no idea where I could find it here in the shops.

 

[panthera]

Nope, It's rhubarb and the main problem

is the oxalic acid crystals. Remember, the European version is not nearly as toxic as the one common in the Americas.

Formic acid (Ameisensäure in German, what else?) is really good for removing that hideous magnesium-calcium ick which seems to grow on porcelain and all vitreous surfaces as well as water boiling apparatus. It gets rid of the stuff faster than does citric acid, works where acetic doesn't (magnesium) and doesn't attack vitreous enamel as readily as citric acid.

 

[panthera]

the LD for oxalic acid is between

75mg/kilo and 375mg/kilo depending on who you talk to. This make rhubarb leaves sound just fine and dandy, but we aren't talking about killing a kid through the damage to the kidneys. The crystals are sharp and the damage which is done mechanically is the biggest problem, causing swelling and asphyxiation as well as enormous pain.

One of the neat things which you, Theo, also, know, about reading different languages is the enormous variety in scientific 'facts' between language groups and cultures.

I remember when I first came to Germany that it was scientifically 'proved' that the vaginal PH made transmission of Hiv in straight sex 'impossible'. Wonder how many poor women died here in Germany because of that nonsense? And it was disseminated as secured fact by the Paul-Ehrlich institute up to the mid 1990s! The Americans had long since concluded that a 1 in 4 risk of infection was only less risky than a 1 in 2 in theory...

 

[mielabor]

Talking about figures...

Naturally I was looking for some facts about oxalic acid and I found a table that the oxalic acid content of vegetables like spinach, chives and parsley is comparable or even higher than that of rhubarb and yet I don't hear much about poisoning cases with these.

And about the formic acid: I think that we are lucky not to have that rock-hard water that you seem to have in Munich. Cleaning vinegar is sufficient here to remove all lime deposits. Never used anything else.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/Other/oxalic.html

 

[panthera]

Theo,

Those tables compare the rhubarb stalks to the spinach leaves. Big difference.
You have to compare the leaves of the rhubarb, that's where the crystals are.

Anyway, yes, our water is very healthy and very hard.